Fox Sports Klemmer

[InGusWeTrust]

He is bad culture otherwise hed still be at the knights

This is also true and a worry. He had an issue with their trainer iirc?

 

[TwinTurbo]

3 bottom placed clubs in past what 5-7 years have given him the flick. Assuming this story is correct, not a good sign is it. Can’t hear any of the top teams fighting over he’s signature

What's with 3, where do you get that from?
We didn't "give him the flick", he left.
Newcastle were Top 5 last season, "hardly a bottom placed club".
That leaves the Tigers,, that's 1 only.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Cook]

Was knights top 5 when he left? I thought more near bottom, last year proves better without him. I thought we let go as much as he wanted to leave. Did we pay any of he’s freight? If we didn’t then I’ll agree he left, if we paid freight then of course we let go.

 

[Bulldog1966]

He has the Bulldog DNA, experienced prop.

Klemmer + Tracey. Get the deals done.

Actually 100% agree with you for once lol
In another thread and I cbf reading many comments but ppl shitting on the Tracey speculation(and idk how true the rumour is at all)there is nothing wrong with that bloke at all.
The way things are atm Klemmer would be very handy, certainly not a gun but of good quality and Injury free type so it's a yes from me too if the numbers work..up to Gus and co to sort it.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Was knights top 5 when he left? I thought more near bottom, last year proves better without him. I thought we let go as much as he wanted to leave. Did we pay any of he’s freight? If we didn’t then I’ll agree he left, if we paid freight then of course we let go.

We let him go out of being too caring. We could have made him stick to the contract, but we all know how that usually goes. I cannot imagine us paying any freight whatsoever, since he was the one adamant about leaving. We were stuck buying one of the few players available to replace him, Dylanfrickin Napa.

 

[Squirtlevstar]

The Potential Resurgence of David Klemmer and the Canterbury Bulldogs in 2024



1. **Familiarity and Loyalty:**

- Klemmer has a history with the Bulldogs, having played a significant part of his career with the club before moving to the Newcastle Knights. Returning to familiar surroundings may reignite his passion and commitment to the Bulldogs.



2. **Leadership Qualities:**

- Klemmer is known for his leadership on and off the field. His return could provide the Bulldogs with a strong and experienced leader, motivating the team to perform at their best and setting an example for younger players.



3. **Defensive Powerhouse:**

- Klemmer is renowned for his defensive prowess, consistently making a high number of tackles per game. His presence in the forward pack could significantly bolster the Bulldogs' defense, creating a solid foundation for the team to build upon.



4. **Impact in the Middle:**

- The Bulldogs have struggled in recent years with dominating the middle of the field. Klemmer's return would add a powerful and aggressive element to their forward pack, helping the team gain more control over the game's tempo and momentum.



5. **Inspiration for Teammates:**

- The mere presence of a seasoned player like Klemmer can inspire confidence in his teammates. As a seasoned campaigner, he could instill a winning mentality and foster a culture of resilience within the squad.



6. **Fan Engagement:**

- Klemmer's return would likely excite and engage the fan base. The emotional connection between the fans and a player who has a history with the club can generate a positive atmosphere at games, creating an environment conducive to success.



7. **Experience in High-Pressure Situations:**

- Having played in numerous high-stakes matches and representative games, Klemmer brings a wealth of experience in pressure situations. This experience could prove invaluable, especially during crucial moments in tight contests.



8. **Development of Young Talent:**

- Klemmer's return could serve as a mentorship opportunity for younger players in the squad. His experience and work ethic can positively influence the development of emerging talents, contributing to the overall growth and depth of the team.



9. **Consistency in Performance:**

- Klemmer has a track record of delivering consistent and high-quality performances. His return could bring stability to the team's overall performance, reducing fluctuations and increasing the Bulldogs' competitiveness.



10. **Symbolic Significance:**

- The return of a player like Klemmer symbolizes a commitment to reclaiming the Bulldogs' legendary status. It signals a strategic move to bring back key contributors from the club's successful past, creating a narrative of resurgence and ambition.



In conclusion, David Klemmer's potential return to the Canterbury Bulldogs in 2024 offers a myriad of benefits. From his on-field contributions to his leadership qualities and impact on team culture, Klemmer has the potential to play a pivotal role in transforming the Bulldogs back into a legendary force in the rugby league landscape

 

[BlackDawg]

Dont want Klemmer anywhere near us or our player group. The bloke quit our club when we were on our knees so he can get fucked in my books

 

[2ndphase]

Its a no from me he's passed his best and he'll probably whinge about how hard they're training!

 

[Magic Burton]

This has annoyed me for years
Watching us go hard on JAC, Cotric, DWZ etc and ignore Reynolds, Townsend, even Benji and then logging onto the kennel watching everyone praise these signings ‘iz our year cuz iz our year I feel it in bones mad players now’
I’ve known we will be bottom 4 every single year since our 2018 meltdown and have said it and been attacked but history showed I was right.
Dreaming and guys like that currently copping it

Our big mistake was Barrett and Anderson.
I SCREAMED when I kept hearing barrett talk about buying youth and, as I said at the time, ignore the fact you need experience and especially experience in the halves.
Burton needed an old head.
Flanagan needed an older head.
Flanagan did not need Burton and vice versa and Barrett is a retard for not seeing this.
Pair a young and an old.
Thankfully Gus knows this fact at least.
The only time two young halves have ever worked was Foran and DCE but these two literally kicked on to be the best in the business.
So unless we get the worlds future best half and worlds future best 5/8 it was doomed.

This is a good post @Nasheed

It's a long reply. It's not a simplistic story. I've cut it down.

To blame everything on one of Hasler, Dib or Castle is a very simplistic view of the world. It's a combination of many things. Hasler and Dib did so much good for the club. They also got blinded by power and control. Dib done some things brilliantly someone outlined the third party supporters he brought into the club. He also had some glaring flaws.

Hasler's loyalty was to winning the next NRL game as that's the loyalty of every coach in the game. Hasler structured his roster accordingly. The problem was the club had the chance in early 2017 to advise Hasler it was his final year and allow him to see out the season. The mistake was retaining him for 2 years. The bigger mistake was sacking him before the new deal started. It was a panic decision. Releasing James Graham compounded that and sealed Dib's fate an an election.

If all the mistakes were made during 2017 the election outcome proved to be it wasn't a good one. We lost 6 directors in one hit. We just got a new CEO, a new Captain and a new GM of Football. So many mistakes made before the election and if they weren't made Dib wins the election. He panicked. He was blindsided by power. He was a good leader all the same. Just lost sight with power and election outcomes. I'm sure he's better now in whatever career path he has taken with time of reflection. But to blame Hasler or blame the Anderson's is simplistic. Dib did panic in 2017 to blame him is also a mistake. Power and potentially losing power can make people short sighted and reactive. It happens. He's human. We're human. Why can't politicians see what we're seeing? Why can't they see the end when we end it for them? Power short sights all kinds of people.

Our junior league was and still is strong. Our pathways teams produced players. Hasler did blood a lot of new talent that came through the systems. Our juniors aren't an issue. Our pathways aren't a problem. Never been.

Dib sacking Hasler and appointing Pay wasn't the right decision. The Anderson's sacking Pay for Barrett was even more farcical. Pay did dig his own grave on two fronts. He accepted a 12 month extension in 2019. Smart play by the Anderson's. Pay should have haggled for a 2 year deal or leave the building. He was developing some runs on the board in 2019. The other one was I said above we weren't ready for 2020.

We were still enjoying success at lower levels making grand finals in Matts and Ball, winning a NSW Cup & National Title and being undefeated in Matts winning by big margins before Covid ended the season.

The Anderson era was a horror show at NRL level. It showed promise during the second half of 2019. Something went wrong with Covid. We just weren't ready for the 2020 season. This all falls on Pay. No one else.

Pay's sacking came around the time there was a threat of an EGM. This still didn't save 3 directors. Why 3 and not 7 and why those 3 who knows, who cares, it happened. Again the threat of an election sees panic emerge.

Barrett was an abject failure as coach. His only strength if it was one is that he could attract players. Whether they were the right players is one Nasheed has argued about. He attracted them. He just wasn't a good head coach.

Barrett attracted Cotric (current international), Flanagan (scored nearly 200 points in 2020), Allan (current origin), Hetherington, Burton and Addo-Carr all to the club prior to Gould. After Gould he was involved in TPJ (this started before Gould, finished with Gould involved), Kikau and Mahoney. Barrett was with Khoury and Gould at the Chinese dinner.

Nasheed: A little technical note. Barrett actually saw this with Burton and Flanagan. The issue was he believed the answer was Burton and Averillo. Comedy capers. Averillo was thrown to the wolves.

Khoury became Chairman. A genuinely nice person. A passionate Bulldogs fan. He didn't want to lose being Chairman so soon. He got whiff of elections looming and 4 did nominate only to later withdraw. He head hunted Gould. He got him. Gould got 5 year deal with total control of everything and absolutely everything. This ensured no 2022 elections. Gould held the cards and got what he wanted. It can also lead to issues we are now seeing.

Gould was a terrific coach. He was a 1990's coach. He was finished by 1999. He's walked into two great NSW origin eras and when Queensland weren't as strong after Lewis in 1992 and before the 8 in a row dynasty in the early 2000's. He had the Canberra connection in the 1990's. He had Joey and Freddy in the 2000's. Gould achieved some very good things at Penrith. He was working with the best junior league in the game so all he needed to do was generate funds for them to have a training facility. He did recruit some good players. He also let some good footballers go when still contracted notbaly Lewis, Jennings and Moylan. All locals. Penrith began to see the NRL was passing him by. The sacking of Griffin was the end of Gould. Penrith could see he needed his wings clipped, moved sideways or needed to go. In the end he had to be moved on. We didn't see this. We just saw a team that made the 2020 grand final and were entrenched top 2 during 2021. We weren't seeing this was Ivan Cleary's era, Ivan Cleary's culture, Ivan Cleary's system and that he dismantled the 5 year plan.

Gould has such a forceful presence with juniors and pathways. He talks they listen. He does have an awe about him. The NRL is a different beast and it's slowly passing him by. Penrith saw this towards the end of 2018 that's 5yrs ago. It's passed Sheens by. It passed Griffin by last year. I don't think Bennett and Stuart have long to go I see signs in them the NRL is passing them by. This year will see whether Hasler has it or it's passed him. All bar Griffin been great coaches and have great records in the game. The only saviour for Bennett is that he's never drank, smoke, eats clean and has exercised every day. This has kept him going. He trusts his training staff. A lot of clubs have very sharp and very savvy operators. They're all trying to be one step ahead. Gould is doing everything at Canterbury and he's doing multiple jobs at Channel 9. He's also a very polarising figure.

Was Barrett's future sealed when Gould ran that training session and we won the game? I sensed Barrett basked too much in the glory of the win rather than knuckle the team down th following day. Gould didn't need to make the 10 years after me comment. One of the best decisions Gould made was sacking Barrett. I don't care how it was done it was done. Should have been done on the Friday night after the game not the Sunday afternoon when he's at a pub in regional NSW. Gould also made a brilliant decision making Potter the coach. Finally an experienced Canterbury man with a coaching background at 3 different competitions. Potter understood Canterbury. Potter understood Canterbury success. Potter knew what Canterbury was like being around when Moore, Nelson and Ryan were in their pomp. He coached at Wests Tigers so saw how politics can bring a person down. He coached in England. He coached NSW Cup. Coaching NSW Cup you're dealing with part time players, young kids on the rise and players who have been dropped from NRL. So he experienced all emtions. You don't get this learning as an assistant coach on the run.

Gould made the right call making Potter coach. He made the right call when he said it needs an experienced coach. Potter made references in press conferences he wanted to remain as coach. He should have been given 2 years. This would have smoothed a lot of waters. Potter was developing a good style of football. He settled from within the 1-6-7-9-14 roles with Averillo, Burton, Flanagan, Marshall King and Docker Clay. Obviously JMK was leaving out of Potter's control at least he was planning something. He brought stability into the spine. Not the best players. They were building.

A sidenote only two coaches have liked a running hooker being Ryan with Bugden and Potter with JMK. Ryan preferred Bugden. The selectors always wanted Johnstone. Yes we had selectors in that era. We do now but it's a sole selector and not the coach. We've only had two decent running hookers over the last 40 years with Bugden and JMK. The other solid to good ones been workers or tradesmen type players Johnstone, Thomas, Peats, Hetherington, Polla-Mounter (2001), Hughes, Perry, Ennis and Mahoney. We won't even talk about the hooker between Ennis and JMK that was a fatal mistake by all concerned. Ciraldo and Gould seem to want the organising and 40-50 tackle hooker. Anderson had a running hooker in 1993 and he didn't like him running. Serdaris said when Lamb wanted the ball he had to get the ball Anderson said so.

Back to Potter. But a problem might have been is that Potter would have wanted authority over team selection, retention and recruitment. Gould was given control and authority over everything football. A better world would have been Gould be part of a retention committee with Potter in charge, Gould in charge of pathways where he has a great presence and Potter in charge of NRL. The board handed over control they couldn't make the decision.

We all want Canterbury to be successful.

A fall down is the majority of Canterbury fans don't follow Rugby League as a whole. Nasheed I can see you're an exception. So they only see one small part of the game being the Bulldogs and don't see things from outside. Only a small handful of us follow Rugby League at other levels be it Super League, Queensland, country or local areas. Only a handful follow closely analyse what other clubs do more or less to see what they do right and wrong. They only see the headline bits. They're driven by the narrative from within. I still follow the fortunes of players who left Canterbury to see how they're going. Since it's been a lot lately I see what other clubs are doing.

Canterbury's structure was once it's great strengths with the NRL club and the Leagues Club. It's great when it has powerful leaders at the very top and the football team is winning games. It can also expose its holes and flaws when the leadership isn't as strong and the football team isn't winning. It has opened the door for lobby groups to challenge for power within the boards of both our clubs. Canterbury has since been trapped in the cycle of politics and election outcomes. It's not a healthy situation and has led to some very reactive and panic decisions.

Some of the signings we have made for next year, passing the blame onto the players and obsolving the coaching staff & management from the blame is a way to avoid elections. Both Khoury and Gould have a lot riding on the elections. Khoury wants to retain chairmanship. The elected board even if unopposed or reelected vote on chairman after the election. Khoury needs a strong personal result. Khoury gets that Gould gets a 5yr extension without a review of performance.

I haven't seen the Ben Hunt threads on this page and I'm sure there would have been a dozen threads at least and 1000's of comments. I have no doubt some would have raised caution and they would have been shot down. I told another Canterbury fan from day one Hunt won't be coming and it will end in badly. Canterbury fans under estimated Shane Flanagan. There was a bit of messaging from Gould that didn't suit with what Hunt wanted to achieve. Gould trying to keep Canterbury fans at bay and angle for his 5 year extension kept saying the club is in a massive rebuild. Hunt the next day said he's not interested in a rebuild. Flanagan said no. The angle from Hunt became homesickness.

I've been shot down in here about Connor Tracey. I've outlined the NRL Top 30 roster. I've outlined Cronulla will want a logical swap. I've outlined the type of areas Cronulla would be keen on. I've outlined two players other clubs might want Fox and Kiraz they aren't types Cronulla want. I've outlined because of the negative coverage from within and the desperation to release them RFM and another player they won't be part of the trades unless we pay full freight. I've outlined other clubs have very smart operators. I got shot down. We need to critically look at things rather than jump on the bandwagons.

We are chasing every player in the game. We are completely full in the Top 30. We aren't in a poisition to write off $800k or we would. We've had to write off the Jackson retirement.

I got shot down when I said the Roosters are smart only having 26 on their roster right now. You need to have 29 by Round 1. They can sit back and not pay players from the salary cap until Round 1. If they don't sign anyone they will promote a player from within for the season. This is a work around the cap. It's simplistic to say the Roosters have brown paper bags. Oh they do. They have third party sponsorship connections. They know how to work the salary cap. Not having 30 on the books right now is smart planning.

We have exhausted our Top 30. We are trying to release and pay freight for players. We are trying to make too many changes. I'm warning these things don't work.

I can't buy into rebuild when a player like Averillo who has come through the system and played 78 games has been freely allowed to go. Those who study the Top 30 cycle, players in, players out and the balance of the Top 30 knew Averillo was gone long before a rival club snapped him up.

DCE and Foran in 2011 had a very strong and experienced coach. They had Lyon as the captain. They had Stewart as fullback. They had Stewart at lock. They had people around them. Watmough in the second row. That Manly side was another level.

Now onto two clubs. I know one member has compared us to Brisbane in praising them and criticising us. I think it was @Geoff Chambers who done this. I think it's a good anology in many regards. Brisbane had an experienced coach. He has always been a law to himself. Bennett got what he wanted first time at Brisbane, at Saints, Rabbits and now Dolphins. They got rid of Bennett in a power play. They hire Seibold. Brisbane is a massive beast. It needs someone who understands Brisbane. Seibold didn't have the runs or the authority. He gets sacked. They finally give Walters a run. Walters seemed like the natural successor. Broncos legend. Won 5 premierships 1 as captain. He was twice on Bennett's staff. He did it all the hard way. He was sacked when Bennett felt he was too comfortable. He coached Super League. He coached Queensland Cup. He coached State of Origin. He was reunited with Bennett at 2 further clubs including Broncos again I think the other Newcastle. The simplistic thing is to say Walters trained them hard and got rid of the bad apples. Brisbane only signed 4 players of note and got rid of 4 players of note. They lacked leadership. They lacked direction on field and at training. So they signed Reynolds, Capewell and Taupau for the leadership. Why didn't we look at Taupau? They needed a box office player so got Walsh. The only players they removed were Lodge, TPJ, Gamble and Oloapu. Some others left for better opportunities and they trusted their pathways. As they have done with Dene Mariner to replace Farnworth.

Another good example is the Dolphins formation. They had zero players. Their Queensland Cup made the Grand Final in 2022 on the back of Warriors players and Fuller. The rest aren't remotely close to backup NRL let alone NRL. So they had nothing to work from. How to build a squad in less than 12 months without hitting panic buttons. How they held their nerve and resolve during the rejections is remarkable. They had to get to 24 players by November 1st or they weren't in the NRL. They snuck to 24 just days before it. Hammer became player 25. Niu became player 26. They promtoed 3 development and trial players to get to 29 before Round 1. The trial player was for one year and development the following year. They added a 30th later on and the deal was back to development for 2024 and NRL in 2025. This is all on the NRL website. It's a good example to follow in slowly building a team. They signed experienced leaders Bromwich brothers and Nicholls. We didn't even look at them. We would kill for one of them. By not panicing on the signings and finding ways to get players on 1 year deals they were able to land 2 gems from Broncos and one of our best two performers for next year. One of their one year wonders is now with us.

Broncos haven't done massive clean outs. Just identified they needed experience, leadership and one box office player. Without Reynolds, Capewell and Taupau the Broncos are a club of talent and no direciton. Walters and Reynolds need each other. Taupau might not be in the 17 he's the forwards leader.

Dolphins put the leadership and experience in place. This allowed them to fill the rest of the Top 30 with rookie players like Katoa and others. They had 7 players who hadn't played NRL in their official Top 30 all made their debuts this year. Again sourced from the NRL website. They made sure they got another one year deals to have a go at getting new players. They left the door open for 6 recruits. They got 4 one of them a rookie who was injured this year.

If you have access to STAN watch the Dawn of the Dolphins series. A good insight into the running of a club struggling to get started at the next level and dealing with rejections. Provides a good understanding of Rugby League. Our very own James Graham is even featured.

Broncos and Dolphins are big fishes in Brisbane. They are also lucky they aren't clubs that have political ramifications. This is our downfall. Politics and Elections. Saints and Tigers have the merger issues. We have the faction issues. A battle for constant power. A strong coach can cut through Saints and Tigers as Bennett and Sheens have done, as Flanagan is now doing and as Marshall looks to be doing. Marshall's biggest threat will be Farah. Canterbury as I've pointed need more than a strong coach. They need strong leadership in our two clubs.

What we are seeing with our squad is aside from Criction are players genuinely not wanted by their clubs for next year. We are falling into the trap of thinking we can turn them into something else. We should have allowed ourselves the chance to retain much of our squad and just add in the key areas.

Nasheed you are right we should have been in the ball park for Reynolds, Townsend, Marshall and I've added the Bromwich brothers, Nicholls and Taupua.

We've made mistake after mistake. We trying to believe in the theory two wrongs make a right.

 

[wendog33]

Possibly all true. However it's past history and mistakes and stuff ups, that we have to believe are being rectified now and that from this point on the team roster can settle down and small adjustments and incremental improvements are done from season to season to strengthen the team...and not on mass as they have been for quite a few years now.

Yes we have badly recruited with the wrong players and not recruited the right ones where other clubs have succeeded. That can't be denied but we have the 100% reality that Gus has been given the job and Khoury and the Board are behind the decisions...because frankly we had fallen and stooped to such a level that a monumental decision like getting Gould in just had to happen.

We can't change the slippery slope that got us here.
We can't change the reality of our unsuccessful recruitment in a 7 and middles but we have one of the best backlines and 2nd row/lock rosters in the NRL.

That's a lot to work with already and we know Gus has acknowledged the need for middles so he should be able to fix that, and soon!

What we are most vulnerable with is the Head Coach. The rest of the coaching staff is made up of Bulldog old boys who succeeded with the club so we have that DNA and a very experienced J Taylor.

It remains to be seen if CC has learnt from the many rookie mistakes, bench rotation and questionable selections he made this year but there is every possibility he has and that Gus is just as aware of CC coaching naivety as us.

All Bulldogs supporters can hope for is improvement and that the coach, Gus and the players all do their jobs.

They'll rightly get 2024 to show us their wares but if after that we don't get off the bottom 4 and still conceding embarrassing scorelines like 66-0, then you can only imagine there will be huge unrest at Belmore.

 

[Burgler]

This is a good post @Nasheed

It's a long reply. It's not a simplistic story. I've cut it down.

To blame everything on one of Hasler, Dib or Castle is a very simplistic view of the world. It's a combination of many things. Hasler and Dib did so much good for the club. They also got blinded by power and control. Dib done some things brilliantly someone outlined the third party supporters he brought into the club. He also had some glaring flaws.

Hasler's loyalty was to winning the next NRL game as that's the loyalty of every coach in the game. Hasler structured his roster accordingly. The problem was the club had the chance in early 2017 to advise Hasler it was his final year and allow him to see out the season. The mistake was retaining him for 2 years. The bigger mistake was sacking him before the new deal started. It was a panic decision. Releasing James Graham compounded that and sealed Dib's fate an an election.

If all the mistakes were made during 2017 the election outcome proved to be it wasn't a good one. We lost 6 directors in one hit. We just got a new CEO, a new Captain and a new GM of Football. So many mistakes made before the election and if they weren't made Dib wins the election. He panicked. He was blindsided by power. He was a good leader all the same. Just lost sight with power and election outcomes. I'm sure he's better now in whatever career path he has taken with time of reflection. But to blame Hasler or blame the Anderson's is simplistic. Dib did panic in 2017 to blame him is also a mistake. Power and potentially losing power can make people short sighted and reactive. It happens. He's human. We're human. Why can't politicians see what we're seeing? Why can't they see the end when we end it for them? Power short sights all kinds of people.

Our junior league was and still is strong. Our pathways teams produced players. Hasler did blood a lot of new talent that came through the systems. Our juniors aren't an issue. Our pathways aren't a problem. Never been.

Dib sacking Hasler and appointing Pay wasn't the right decision. The Anderson's sacking Pay for Barrett was even more farcical. Pay did dig his own grave on two fronts. He accepted a 12 month extension in 2019. Smart play by the Anderson's. Pay should have haggled for a 2 year deal or leave the building. He was developing some runs on the board in 2019. The other one was I said above we weren't ready for 2020.

We were still enjoying success at lower levels making grand finals in Matts and Ball, winning a NSW Cup & National Title and being undefeated in Matts winning by big margins before Covid ended the season.

The Anderson era was a horror show at NRL level. It showed promise during the second half of 2019. Something went wrong with Covid. We just weren't ready for the 2020 season. This all falls on Pay. No one else.

Pay's sacking came around the time there was a threat of an EGM. This still didn't save 3 directors. Why 3 and not 7 and why those 3 who knows, who cares, it happened. Again the threat of an election sees panic emerge.

Barrett was an abject failure as coach. His only strength if it was one is that he could attract players. Whether they were the right players is one Nasheed has argued about. He attracted them. He just wasn't a good head coach.

Barrett attracted Cotric (current international), Flanagan (scored nearly 200 points in 2020), Allan (current origin), Hetherington, Burton and Addo-Carr all to the club prior to Gould. After Gould he was involved in TPJ (this started before Gould, finished with Gould involved), Kikau and Mahoney. Barrett was with Khoury and Gould at the Chinese dinner.

Nasheed: A little technical note. Barrett actually saw this with Burton and Flanagan. The issue was he believed the answer was Burton and Averillo. Comedy capers. Averillo was thrown to the wolves.

Khoury became Chairman. A genuinely nice person. A passionate Bulldogs fan. He didn't want to lose being Chairman so soon. He got whiff of elections looming and 4 did nominate only to later withdraw. He head hunted Gould. He got him. Gould got 5 year deal with total control of everything and absolutely everything. This ensured no 2022 elections. Gould held the cards and got what he wanted. It can also lead to issues we are now seeing.

Gould was a terrific coach. He was a 1990's coach. He was finished by 1999. He's walked into two great NSW origin eras and when Queensland weren't as strong after Lewis in 1992 and before the 8 in a row dynasty in the early 2000's. He had the Canberra connection in the 1990's. He had Joey and Freddy in the 2000's. Gould achieved some very good things at Penrith. He was working with the best junior league in the game so all he needed to do was generate funds for them to have a training facility. He did recruit some good players. He also let some good footballers go when still contracted notbaly Lewis, Jennings and Moylan. All locals. Penrith began to see the NRL was passing him by. The sacking of Griffin was the end of Gould. Penrith could see he needed his wings clipped, moved sideways or needed to go. In the end he had to be moved on. We didn't see this. We just saw a team that made the 2020 grand final and were entrenched top 2 during 2021. We weren't seeing this was Ivan Cleary's era, Ivan Cleary's culture, Ivan Cleary's system and that he dismantled the 5 year plan.

Gould has such a forceful presence with juniors and pathways. He talks they listen. He does have an awe about him. The NRL is a different beast and it's slowly passing him by. Penrith saw this towards the end of 2018 that's 5yrs ago. It's passed Sheens by. It passed Griffin by last year. I don't think Bennett and Stuart have long to go I see signs in them the NRL is passing them by. This year will see whether Hasler has it or it's passed him. All bar Griffin been great coaches and have great records in the game. The only saviour for Bennett is that he's never drank, smoke, eats clean and has exercised every day. This has kept him going. He trusts his training staff. A lot of clubs have very sharp and very savvy operators. They're all trying to be one step ahead. Gould is doing everything at Canterbury and he's doing multiple jobs at Channel 9. He's also a very polarising figure.

Was Barrett's future sealed when Gould ran that training session and we won the game? I sensed Barrett basked too much in the glory of the win rather than knuckle the team down th following day. Gould didn't need to make the 10 years after me comment. One of the best decisions Gould made was sacking Barrett. I don't care how it was done it was done. Should have been done on the Friday night after the game not the Sunday afternoon when he's at a pub in regional NSW. Gould also made a brilliant decision making Potter the coach. Finally an experienced Canterbury man with a coaching background at 3 different competitions. Potter understood Canterbury. Potter understood Canterbury success. Potter knew what Canterbury was like being around when Moore, Nelson and Ryan were in their pomp. He coached at Wests Tigers so saw how politics can bring a person down. He coached in England. He coached NSW Cup. Coaching NSW Cup you're dealing with part time players, young kids on the rise and players who have been dropped from NRL. So he experienced all emtions. You don't get this learning as an assistant coach on the run.

Gould made the right call making Potter coach. He made the right call when he said it needs an experienced coach. Potter made references in press conferences he wanted to remain as coach. He should have been given 2 years. This would have smoothed a lot of waters. Potter was developing a good style of football. He settled from within the 1-6-7-9-14 roles with Averillo, Burton, Flanagan, Marshall King and Docker Clay. Obviously JMK was leaving out of Potter's control at least he was planning something. He brought stability into the spine. Not the best players. They were building.

A sidenote only two coaches have liked a running hooker being Ryan with Bugden and Potter with JMK. Ryan preferred Bugden. The selectors always wanted Johnstone. Yes we had selectors in that era. We do now but it's a sole selector and not the coach. We've only had two decent running hookers over the last 40 years with Bugden and JMK. The other solid to good ones been workers or tradesmen type players Johnstone, Thomas, Peats, Hetherington, Polla-Mounter (2001), Hughes, Perry, Ennis and Mahoney. We won't even talk about the hooker between Ennis and JMK that was a fatal mistake by all concerned. Ciraldo and Gould seem to want the organising and 40-50 tackle hooker. Anderson had a running hooker in 1993 and he didn't like him running. Serdaris said when Lamb wanted the ball he had to get the ball Anderson said so.

Back to Potter. But a problem might have been is that Potter would have wanted authority over team selection, retention and recruitment. Gould was given control and authority over everything football. A better world would have been Gould be part of a retention committee with Potter in charge, Gould in charge of pathways where he has a great presence and Potter in charge of NRL. The board handed over control they couldn't make the decision.

We all want Canterbury to be successful.

A fall down is the majority of Canterbury fans don't follow Rugby League as a whole. Nasheed I can see you're an exception. So they only see one small part of the game being the Bulldogs and don't see things from outside. Only a small handful of us follow Rugby League at other levels be it Super League, Queensland, country or local areas. Only a handful follow closely analyse what other clubs do more or less to see what they do right and wrong. They only see the headline bits. They're driven by the narrative from within. I still follow the fortunes of players who left Canterbury to see how they're going. Since it's been a lot lately I see what other clubs are doing.

Canterbury's structure was once it's great strengths with the NRL club and the Leagues Club. It's great when it has powerful leaders at the very top and the football team is winning games. It can also expose its holes and flaws when the leadership isn't as strong and the football team isn't winning. It has opened the door for lobby groups to challenge for power within the boards of both our clubs. Canterbury has since been trapped in the cycle of politics and election outcomes. It's not a healthy situation and has led to some very reactive and panic decisions.

Some of the signings we have made for next year, passing the blame onto the players and obsolving the coaching staff & management from the blame is a way to avoid elections. Both Khoury and Gould have a lot riding on the elections. Khoury wants to retain chairmanship. The elected board even if unopposed or reelected vote on chairman after the election. Khoury needs a strong personal result. Khoury gets that Gould gets a 5yr extension without a review of performance.

I haven't seen the Ben Hunt threads on this page and I'm sure there would have been a dozen threads at least and 1000's of comments. I have no doubt some would have raised caution and they would have been shot down. I told another Canterbury fan from day one Hunt won't be coming and it will end in badly. Canterbury fans under estimated Shane Flanagan. There was a bit of messaging from Gould that didn't suit with what Hunt wanted to achieve. Gould trying to keep Canterbury fans at bay and angle for his 5 year extension kept saying the club is in a massive rebuild. Hunt the next day said he's not interested in a rebuild. Flanagan said no. The angle from Hunt became homesickness.

I've been shot down in here about Connor Tracey. I've outlined the NRL Top 30 roster. I've outlined Cronulla will want a logical swap. I've outlined the type of areas Cronulla would be keen on. I've outlined two players other clubs might want Fox and Kiraz they aren't types Cronulla want. I've outlined because of the negative coverage from within and the desperation to release them RFM and another player they won't be part of the trades unless we pay full freight. I've outlined other clubs have very smart operators. I got shot down. We need to critically look at things rather than jump on the bandwagons.

We are chasing every player in the game. We are completely full in the Top 30. We aren't in a poisition to write off $800k or we would. We've had to write off the Jackson retirement.

I got shot down when I said the Roosters are smart only having 26 on their roster right now. You need to have 29 by Round 1. They can sit back and not pay players from the salary cap until Round 1. If they don't sign anyone they will promote a player from within for the season. This is a work around the cap. It's simplistic to say the Roosters have brown paper bags. Oh they do. They have third party sponsorship connections. They know how to work the salary cap. Not having 30 on the books right now is smart planning.

We have exhausted our Top 30. We are trying to release and pay freight for players. We are trying to make too many changes. I'm warning these things don't work.

I can't buy into rebuild when a player like Averillo who has come through the system and played 78 games has been freely allowed to go. Those who study the Top 30 cycle, players in, players out and the balance of the Top 30 knew Averillo was gone long before a rival club snapped him up.

DCE and Foran in 2011 had a very strong and experienced coach. They had Lyon as the captain. They had Stewart as fullback. They had Stewart at lock. They had people around them. Watmough in the second row. That Manly side was another level.

Now onto two clubs. I know one member has compared us to Brisbane in praising them and criticising us. I think it was @Geoff Chambers who done this. I think it's a good anology in many regards. Brisbane had an experienced coach. He has always been a law to himself. Bennett got what he wanted first time at Brisbane, at Saints, Rabbits and now Dolphins. They got rid of Bennett in a power play. They hire Seibold. Brisbane is a massive beast. It needs someone who understands Brisbane. Seibold didn't have the runs or the authority. He gets sacked. They finally give Walters a run. Walters seemed like the natural successor. Broncos legend. Won 5 premierships 1 as captain. He was twice on Bennett's staff. He did it all the hard way. He was sacked when Bennett felt he was too comfortable. He coached Super League. He coached Queensland Cup. He coached State of Origin. He was reunited with Bennett at 2 further clubs including Broncos again I think the other Newcastle. The simplistic thing is to say Walters trained them hard and got rid of the bad apples. Brisbane only signed 4 players of note and got rid of 4 players of note. They lacked leadership. They lacked direction on field and at training. So they signed Reynolds, Capewell and Taupau for the leadership. Why didn't we look at Taupau? They needed a box office player so got Walsh. The only players they removed were Lodge, TPJ, Gamble and Oloapu. Some others left for better opportunities and they trusted their pathways. As they have done with Dene Mariner to replace Farnworth.

Another good example is the Dolphins formation. They had zero players. Their Queensland Cup made the Grand Final in 2022 on the back of Warriors players and Fuller. The rest aren't remotely close to backup NRL let alone NRL. So they had nothing to work from. How to build a squad in less than 12 months without hitting panic buttons. How they held their nerve and resolve during the rejections is remarkable. They had to get to 24 players by November 1st or they weren't in the NRL. They snuck to 24 just days before it. Hammer became player 25. Niu became player 26. They promtoed 3 development and trial players to get to 29 before Round 1. The trial player was for one year and development the following year. They added a 30th later on and the deal was back to development for 2024 and NRL in 2025. This is all on the NRL website. It's a good example to follow in slowly building a team. They signed experienced leaders Bromwich brothers and Nicholls. We didn't even look at them. We would kill for one of them. By not panicing on the signings and finding ways to get players on 1 year deals they were able to land 2 gems from Broncos and one of our best two performers for next year. One of their one year wonders is now with us.

Broncos haven't done massive clean outs. Just identified they needed experience, leadership and one box office player. Without Reynolds, Capewell and Taupau the Broncos are a club of talent and no direciton. Walters and Reynolds need each other. Taupau might not be in the 17 he's the forwards leader.

Dolphins put the leadership and experience in place. This allowed them to fill the rest of the Top 30 with rookie players like Katoa and others. They had 7 players who hadn't played NRL in their official Top 30 all made their debuts this year. Again sourced from the NRL website. They made sure they got another one year deals to have a go at getting new players. They left the door open for 6 recruits. They got 4 one of them a rookie who was injured this year.

If you have access to STAN watch the Dawn of the Dolphins series. A good insight into the running of a club struggling to get started at the next level and dealing with rejections. Provides a good understanding of Rugby League. Our very own James Graham is even featured.

Broncos and Dolphins are big fishes in Brisbane. They are also lucky they aren't clubs that have political ramifications. This is our downfall. Politics and Elections. Saints and Tigers have the merger issues. We have the faction issues. A battle for constant power. A strong coach can cut through Saints and Tigers as Bennett and Sheens have done, as Flanagan is now doing and as Marshall looks to be doing. Marshall's biggest threat will be Farah. Canterbury as I've pointed need more than a strong coach. They need strong leadership in our two clubs.

What we are seeing with our squad is aside from Criction are players genuinely not wanted by their clubs for next year. We are falling into the trap of thinking we can turn them into something else. We should have allowed ourselves the chance to retain much of our squad and just add in the key areas.

Nasheed you are right we should have been in the ball park for Reynolds, Townsend, Marshall and I've added the Bromwich brothers, Nicholls and Taupua.

We've made mistake after mistake. We trying to believe in the theory two wrongs make a right.

Not bagging this post for its contents or point but many like myself would not read this purely based on how long it is. I find if you’re clear and concise people will pay attention, unless you’re a troll like…(insert obvious name here).

 

[Magic Burton]

There are Canterbury fans like myself, @Nasheed and others who follow the game as a whole and as a result we look at things with our eyes wide open, we see it from all angles and we see things from an analytical point of view. A lot of Canterbury fans see the narrative and are blindly one eyed without reviewing the entire situation.

Too many Canterbury fans don't understand the workings of the salary cap, the top 30, the supplementary players and don't understand rival clubs have people who have achieved just as much if not more than Gould in club football especially more so in recent times. Gould is very much cut from the 1990's mould.

We can see the warning signs and dangers ahead. We can see what's not working. We get shot down as a result. We are always right because we know it's a bad idea or low percentage play from day one. We see to achieve this we have to do this. Is it a good outcome?

With Klemmer. Nasheed apparently wanted this ages ago and was shot down. Now Gould is keen the masses are jumping at the seams.

My simple post on Klemmer was ignored and someone else said the same thing and I think shot down. At the moment his name has been bandied about as a possible sacrifice if the Tigers needed cap space should they secure Luai.

Klemmer is logical for 2025 and only if they sign Luai. They might have the cap space to keep Klemmer. They might be able to fit in Klemmer and Luai. They might be going for another big fish. They have a trade off elsewhere to make that happen too.

Tigers are one of 3 clubs chasing Luai. Currently their offer is 300k per season more than Penrith and 4 years instead of 2 years. We will be going all out for Luai as well. We get Luai we don't get Klemmer. It's not likely Benji will release Klemmer for 2024 unless they want to free up a Top 30 spot.

Once again a lot of Canterbury fans jump the gun and claim Klemmer is signed for 2024.

I'm not against Klemmer returning home. There's so much water to pass. And at best it's 2025 unless a miracle happens and for 2024 it's going to be many weeks, maybe months and a lot needs to happen. A lot.

A lot is going to happen between now and when the Warriors officially make AFB available to the market. All we know is the obvious there's no Sydney clubs chasing him we already knew that. Warriors actually never said anything about the non-Sydney club clause the reporters finally worked out 2 plus 2 equals 4. Roosters never declare their hands early. Look how they snatched Leinu at the last second. Roosters always keep something up their sleeves.

Gould needed AFB to come off before other clubs got wind. Now other clubs can prepare. This will be a huge battle. The Warriors can set the agenda as well. AFB can also commit for 2025 at the Warriors. A lot is to be played. He's not yet on the market for 2025.

Even Connor Tracey who's all but agreed to terms we need to made a logical trade to another club. Still some water to pass that bridge.

Our issue for 2024 is Top 30 being exhausted. It's not easy to trade like for like players in a roster that's had so much recent turnover. We aren't in a position of strength to trade off RFM because of the negative headlines from within about him. The other clubs all have a savvy operator and they can all smell desperation. I warned of this with RFM and was shot down. @Flanagun warned of this too was shot down.

The 3 clubs run worse than us are all showing something different. Marshall is a lot tougher than people think. Somehow he's frozen HappyHat and Fiasco out of that club. Flanagan has already bluntly said no for a Hunt release, he didn't get sucked in by the home sickness BS and isn't making any panic signings. He's learned from the Dolphins not to make panic signings. Dolphins only made one error in recruitment Milford. By not rushing to sign 30 players they were able to get Hamiso for 2023 and put themselves in the market to land a couple of big fishes for 2024. They've landed 2 stars and one of our better players. Titans somehow kept Holbrook sacking and Hasler appointment a complete secret. We leak like crazy. This is full marks to the Titans. They at least have their front office in shape and got a really strong forceful coach. With a very young captain having a strong coach will be crucial. We threw everything at Tino and he wasn't even close to being interested.

You need to read the warning signs before jumping head first.

 

[Magic Burton]

Possibly all true. However it's past history and mistakes and stuff ups, that we have to believe are being rectified now and that from this point on the team roster can settle down and small adjustments and incremental improvements are done from season to season to strengthen the team...and not on mass as they have been for quite a few years now.

Yes we have badly recruited with the wrong players and not recruited the right ones where other clubs have succeeded. That can't be denied but we have the 100% reality that Gus has been given the job and Khoury and the Board are behind the decisions...because frankly we had fallen and stooped to such a level that a monumental decision like getting Gould in just had to happen.

We can't change the slippery slope that got us here.
We can't change the reality of our unsuccessful recruitment in a 7 and middles but we have one of the best backlines and 2nd row/lock rosters in the NRL.

That's a lot to work with already and we know Gus has acknowledged the need for middles so he should be able to fix that, and soon!

What we are most vulnerable with is the Head Coach. The rest of the coaching staff is made up of Bulldog old boys who succeeded with the club so we have that DNA and a very experienced J Taylor.

It remains to be seen if CC has learnt from the many rookie mistakes, bench rotation and questionable selections he made this year but there is every possibility he has and that Gus is just as aware of CC coaching naivety as us.

All Bulldogs supporters can hope for is improvement and that the coach, Gus and the players all do their jobs.

They'll rightly get 2024 to show us their wares but if after that we don't get off the bottom 4 and still conceding embarrassing scorelines like 66-0, then you can only imagine there will be huge unrest at Belmore.

Getting Gould was a high risk strategy. Gould carries a lot of baggage. Gould has a massive ego. Gould has many strengths. Gould also has fatal flaws he and supporters can't see. Those who see past the Gould narrative see them. Gould wanted complete control. Khoury wasn't in a position to offer partial control when he should have. Khoury knew a challenge was coming and the 4 candidates withdrew. So it was a very short term sugar hit. I believed it had the chance to blow up in our faces and end in tears. It can still be that way. Gould had the chance in 2022 to step down to juniors and pathways. We had the chance to publicly offer Potter the role. This would have smoothed the waters and allowed Potter a clear shot at the NRL side and Gould doing the rest. Gould said it's not for a rookie coach. It needed to be an experienced coach. Gould failed on this. The board failed by not having a say. Potter was right in front of us and we didn't at least make a public offer. He says no we go find someone with experience.

To blame Hasler and Dib is a simplistic view of the world. They achieved so much good. They were blind sided and short sighted in a lot of areas. Power does this. It's happening now with Gould. It's happening all over again. A lot of other clubs have lifted their games too now. I highlighted positive areas in Tigers, Dragons and Titans.

I've highlighted our pathways and junior teams were strong during the Dib and Anderson years. I don't buy into they're weak now. We have a lot of good juniors.

If we are going to be successful again we need to look at things with both eyes open, we need to understand the Top 30 structure, we need to understand how other clubs work and we need to understand how player trade offs work.

Klemmer as this topic is about. I'm all for. I also know and issued caution. It's possible for 2025. He will be 31 turning 32 that season. He started NRL as a teenager like O'Meley. He wasn't a late bloomer. As a 1-2 year player very handy. A lot of is will be based around if they need to make a sacrifice should they make Luai and should they decide they have another big fish.

We needed to sign Taupau instead of Reynolds last year. He was the local junior that needed to come home. So not against Klemmer. Canterbury fans are jumping the gun saying he's signed for 2024 without understanding someone said oh they might get rid of Klemmer and not understanding our Top 30 is currently exhausted because we rushed into signing 30. The Roosters only have 26 signed. Maybe it's not just brown paper bags and third parties. They aren't paying 4 players during the non playing months. Politis is smart.

 

[Bazildog]

Klembitch can suck my left one and Marley can join him on the right one.

Burgess?? He can blow himself.

 

[CQDog]

@Polly Power no one is reading allat

 

[Magic Burton]

Not bagging this post for its contents or point but many like myself would not read this purely based on how long it is. I find if you’re clear and concise people will pay attention, unless you’re a troll like…(insert obvious name here).

A simplistic view of the world is to blame Dib and Hasler for everything, blame the Anderson's and Pay. This is very simplistic, one eyed and not looking at the picture as a whole. It's also easy buck passing to give others a free pass for their mistakes. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sorry needed a long analsys because it's a long windy road to why we ended up making panic signings for the 2024 season and we've exhausted our Top 30. A short post makes me look like a troll and I'm not a troll. Neither are Nasheed, Dreaming or Flanagun. They aren't trolls. They're real fans who see things from all angles and cut everything up, review it and form their views. They see it when something isn't right and say it. They don't fall for the narrative. Sporting clubs don't like outside the square thinkers. King Gus is a naive one eyd troll without a wider view of the game.

As for Klemmer. I think he be a good addition in 2025 if Tigers need to shed a player to fit in Luai. A lot of water will be passing under that bridge. Firstly they need to sign Luai. Secondly they need to work out if a player needs to be sacrficied after it all. Tigers are one of 3 clubs chasing Luai. But Bulldogs fans jump the gun and have him in their 2024 teams already without looking at the situation and what needs to occur.

Even if we are to get Tracey for 2024 there's still water to be passed under the bridge. And a trade needs to happen due to our Top 30 being exhausted and our options for Cronulla aren't the best unless they want a young kid like Semrani. I've been called a troll for highlighting this. I study Top 30 lists. Canberra cleared a Top 30 spot today without having to lose a cent.

A simplistic view in all cases is give them RFM. I've highlighted clubs are too smart. The damage we have done to RFM means we are in no position. We could have done a clean trade and release of RFM as the Warriors did of Curran. They made out signed by a previous coach, not in the new coaches long term plans. Warriors had an easy sucker ready to buy. They sold Curran so well. They quite simply wanted him gone. We could have said RFM was signed before Ciraldo and he now wants to go in a different direction. We didn't do that. Clubs know they can get RFM for zero dollars. He will end up at someone like the Roosters without costing them a single cent. Like Quai Ward is effectively player 31 at the Broncos. It's only costing them train & trial payments Bulldogs paying the rest.

We will be paying full freight for 2 players who won't be with us next year and one of those players is contracted for 2025. We have also written off the contracts for Hoffman and Quai Ward not massive deals but still every dollar counts in the cap. These players were signed or re-signed during or after the 2022 season where only one person is in charge.

All Bulldogs fans need to get a grip of NRL reality and understand how it all works. We will be better for it.

 

[Roger the alien]

Depends how much the Tigers chip in I guess, dream scenario would be a 1 year deal until AFB and May arrive.

 

[Burgler]

A simplistic view of the world is to blame Dib and Hasler for everything, blame the Anderson's and Pay. This is very simplistic, one eyed and not looking at the picture as a whole. It's also easy buck passing to give others a free pass for their mistakes. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sorry needed a long analsys because it's a long windy road to why we ended up making panic signings for the 2024 season and we've exhausted our Top 30. A short post makes me look like a troll and I'm not a troll. Neither are Nasheed, Dreaming or Flanagun. They aren't trolls. They're real fans who see things from all angles and cut everything up, review it and form their views. They see it when something isn't right and say it. They don't fall for the narrative. Sporting clubs don't like outside the square thinkers. King Gus is a naive one eyd troll without a wider view of the game.

As for Klemmer. I think he be a good addition in 2025 if Tigers need to shed a player to fit in Luai. A lot of water will be passing under that bridge. Firstly they need to sign Luai. Secondly they need to work out if a player needs to be sacrficied after it all. Tigers are one of 3 clubs chasing Luai. But Bulldogs fans jump the gun and have him in their 2024 teams already without looking at the situation and what needs to occur.

Even if we are to get Tracey for 2024 there's still water to be passed under the bridge. And a trade needs to happen due to our Top 30 being exhausted and our options for Cronulla aren't the best unless they want a young kid like Semrani. I've been called a troll for highlighting this. I study Top 30 lists. Canberra cleared a Top 30 spot today without having to lose a cent.

A simplistic view in all cases is give them RFM. I've highlighted clubs are too smart. The damage we have done to RFM means we are in no position. We could have done a clean trade and release of RFM as the Warriors did of Curran. They made out signed by a previous coach, not in the new coaches long term plans. Warriors had an easy sucker ready to buy. They sold Curran so well. They quite simply wanted him gone. We could have said RFM was signed before Ciraldo and he now wants to go in a different direction. We didn't do that. Clubs know they can get RFM for zero dollars. He will end up at someone like the Roosters without costing them a single cent. Like Quai Ward is effectively player 31 at the Broncos. It's only costing them train & trial payments Bulldogs paying the rest.

We will be paying full freight for 2 players who won't be with us next year and one of those players is contracted for 2025. We have also written off the contracts for Hoffman and Quai Ward not massive deals but still every dollar counts in the cap. These players were signed or re-signed during or after the 2022 season where only one person is in charge.

All Bulldogs fans need to get a grip of NRL reality and understand how it all works. We will be better for it.

Don’t ever imply you’re smarter than Gus regarding football management. Say what you want the bloke has runs on the board dating back to the 80s. He’s outspoken, he plays games with media etc. He does things we don’t even understand because he’s been around the who’s who of rugby league for decades. He knows how other clubs swindle things behind the scenes, he’s ruthless when you need someone to be ruthless. He’s playing the long game and it’s frustrating as a fan who wants immediate results but he’s been realistic in what he’s said in goals and KPIs for the club. He could have said things we are no chance of achieving or made promises regarding results like many probably would have.
The thing with Gus is he will take a risk and sometimes we need to do that because sitting on your hands and waiting can achieve nothing. But with Gus if the risk didn’t pay off he won’t sit back and let it idle. Much like contracts you’ve stated we will be paying the risk was those players could kick on and be good the other is we get them out of top 30 spots and look for someone else to give a chance.

 

[bradyk]

Depends how much the Tigers chip in I guess, dream scenario would be a 1 year deal until AFB and May arrive.

Klemmer not going to give up a 2-3 year deal (depending on the MO) at his age.

 

[Total Fool]

This is a good post @Nasheed

It's a long reply. It's not a simplistic story. I've cut it down.

To blame everything on one of Hasler, Dib or Castle is a very simplistic view of the world. It's a combination of many things. Hasler and Dib did so much good for the club. They also got blinded by power and control. Dib done some things brilliantly someone outlined the third party supporters he brought into the club. He also had some glaring flaws.

Hasler's loyalty was to winning the next NRL game as that's the loyalty of every coach in the game. Hasler structured his roster accordingly. The problem was the club had the chance in early 2017 to advise Hasler it was his final year and allow him to see out the season. The mistake was retaining him for 2 years. The bigger mistake was sacking him before the new deal started. It was a panic decision. Releasing James Graham compounded that and sealed Dib's fate an an election.

If all the mistakes were made during 2017 the election outcome proved to be it wasn't a good one. We lost 6 directors in one hit. We just got a new CEO, a new Captain and a new GM of Football. So many mistakes made before the election and if they weren't made Dib wins the election. He panicked. He was blindsided by power. He was a good leader all the same. Just lost sight with power and election outcomes. I'm sure he's better now in whatever career path he has taken with time of reflection. But to blame Hasler or blame the Anderson's is simplistic. Dib did panic in 2017 to blame him is also a mistake. Power and potentially losing power can make people short sighted and reactive. It happens. He's human. We're human. Why can't politicians see what we're seeing? Why can't they see the end when we end it for them? Power short sights all kinds of people.

Our junior league was and still is strong. Our pathways teams produced players. Hasler did blood a lot of new talent that came through the systems. Our juniors aren't an issue. Our pathways aren't a problem. Never been.

Dib sacking Hasler and appointing Pay wasn't the right decision. The Anderson's sacking Pay for Barrett was even more farcical. Pay did dig his own grave on two fronts. He accepted a 12 month extension in 2019. Smart play by the Anderson's. Pay should have haggled for a 2 year deal or leave the building. He was developing some runs on the board in 2019. The other one was I said above we weren't ready for 2020.

We were still enjoying success at lower levels making grand finals in Matts and Ball, winning a NSW Cup & National Title and being undefeated in Matts winning by big margins before Covid ended the season.

The Anderson era was a horror show at NRL level. It showed promise during the second half of 2019. Something went wrong with Covid. We just weren't ready for the 2020 season. This all falls on Pay. No one else.

Pay's sacking came around the time there was a threat of an EGM. This still didn't save 3 directors. Why 3 and not 7 and why those 3 who knows, who cares, it happened. Again the threat of an election sees panic emerge.

Barrett was an abject failure as coach. His only strength if it was one is that he could attract players. Whether they were the right players is one Nasheed has argued about. He attracted them. He just wasn't a good head coach.

Barrett attracted Cotric (current international), Flanagan (scored nearly 200 points in 2020), Allan (current origin), Hetherington, Burton and Addo-Carr all to the club prior to Gould. After Gould he was involved in TPJ (this started before Gould, finished with Gould involved), Kikau and Mahoney. Barrett was with Khoury and Gould at the Chinese dinner.

Nasheed: A little technical note. Barrett actually saw this with Burton and Flanagan. The issue was he believed the answer was Burton and Averillo. Comedy capers. Averillo was thrown to the wolves.

Khoury became Chairman. A genuinely nice person. A passionate Bulldogs fan. He didn't want to lose being Chairman so soon. He got whiff of elections looming and 4 did nominate only to later withdraw. He head hunted Gould. He got him. Gould got 5 year deal with total control of everything and absolutely everything. This ensured no 2022 elections. Gould held the cards and got what he wanted. It can also lead to issues we are now seeing.

Gould was a terrific coach. He was a 1990's coach. He was finished by 1999. He's walked into two great NSW origin eras and when Queensland weren't as strong after Lewis in 1992 and before the 8 in a row dynasty in the early 2000's. He had the Canberra connection in the 1990's. He had Joey and Freddy in the 2000's. Gould achieved some very good things at Penrith. He was working with the best junior league in the game so all he needed to do was generate funds for them to have a training facility. He did recruit some good players. He also let some good footballers go when still contracted notbaly Lewis, Jennings and Moylan. All locals. Penrith began to see the NRL was passing him by. The sacking of Griffin was the end of Gould. Penrith could see he needed his wings clipped, moved sideways or needed to go. In the end he had to be moved on. We didn't see this. We just saw a team that made the 2020 grand final and were entrenched top 2 during 2021. We weren't seeing this was Ivan Cleary's era, Ivan Cleary's culture, Ivan Cleary's system and that he dismantled the 5 year plan.

Gould has such a forceful presence with juniors and pathways. He talks they listen. He does have an awe about him. The NRL is a different beast and it's slowly passing him by. Penrith saw this towards the end of 2018 that's 5yrs ago. It's passed Sheens by. It passed Griffin by last year. I don't think Bennett and Stuart have long to go I see signs in them the NRL is passing them by. This year will see whether Hasler has it or it's passed him. All bar Griffin been great coaches and have great records in the game. The only saviour for Bennett is that he's never drank, smoke, eats clean and has exercised every day. This has kept him going. He trusts his training staff. A lot of clubs have very sharp and very savvy operators. They're all trying to be one step ahead. Gould is doing everything at Canterbury and he's doing multiple jobs at Channel 9. He's also a very polarising figure.

Was Barrett's future sealed when Gould ran that training session and we won the game? I sensed Barrett basked too much in the glory of the win rather than knuckle the team down th following day. Gould didn't need to make the 10 years after me comment. One of the best decisions Gould made was sacking Barrett. I don't care how it was done it was done. Should have been done on the Friday night after the game not the Sunday afternoon when he's at a pub in regional NSW. Gould also made a brilliant decision making Potter the coach. Finally an experienced Canterbury man with a coaching background at 3 different competitions. Potter understood Canterbury. Potter understood Canterbury success. Potter knew what Canterbury was like being around when Moore, Nelson and Ryan were in their pomp. He coached at Wests Tigers so saw how politics can bring a person down. He coached in England. He coached NSW Cup. Coaching NSW Cup you're dealing with part time players, young kids on the rise and players who have been dropped from NRL. So he experienced all emtions. You don't get this learning as an assistant coach on the run.

Gould made the right call making Potter coach. He made the right call when he said it needs an experienced coach. Potter made references in press conferences he wanted to remain as coach. He should have been given 2 years. This would have smoothed a lot of waters. Potter was developing a good style of football. He settled from within the 1-6-7-9-14 roles with Averillo, Burton, Flanagan, Marshall King and Docker Clay. Obviously JMK was leaving out of Potter's control at least he was planning something. He brought stability into the spine. Not the best players. They were building.

A sidenote only two coaches have liked a running hooker being Ryan with Bugden and Potter with JMK. Ryan preferred Bugden. The selectors always wanted Johnstone. Yes we had selectors in that era. We do now but it's a sole selector and not the coach. We've only had two decent running hookers over the last 40 years with Bugden and JMK. The other solid to good ones been workers or tradesmen type players Johnstone, Thomas, Peats, Hetherington, Polla-Mounter (2001), Hughes, Perry, Ennis and Mahoney. We won't even talk about the hooker between Ennis and JMK that was a fatal mistake by all concerned. Ciraldo and Gould seem to want the organising and 40-50 tackle hooker. Anderson had a running hooker in 1993 and he didn't like him running. Serdaris said when Lamb wanted the ball he had to get the ball Anderson said so.

Back to Potter. But a problem might have been is that Potter would have wanted authority over team selection, retention and recruitment. Gould was given control and authority over everything football. A better world would have been Gould be part of a retention committee with Potter in charge, Gould in charge of pathways where he has a great presence and Potter in charge of NRL. The board handed over control they couldn't make the decision.

We all want Canterbury to be successful.

A fall down is the majority of Canterbury fans don't follow Rugby League as a whole. Nasheed I can see you're an exception. So they only see one small part of the game being the Bulldogs and don't see things from outside. Only a small handful of us follow Rugby League at other levels be it Super League, Queensland, country or local areas. Only a handful follow closely analyse what other clubs do more or less to see what they do right and wrong. They only see the headline bits. They're driven by the narrative from within. I still follow the fortunes of players who left Canterbury to see how they're going. Since it's been a lot lately I see what other clubs are doing.

Canterbury's structure was once it's great strengths with the NRL club and the Leagues Club. It's great when it has powerful leaders at the very top and the football team is winning games. It can also expose its holes and flaws when the leadership isn't as strong and the football team isn't winning. It has opened the door for lobby groups to challenge for power within the boards of both our clubs. Canterbury has since been trapped in the cycle of politics and election outcomes. It's not a healthy situation and has led to some very reactive and panic decisions.

Some of the signings we have made for next year, passing the blame onto the players and obsolving the coaching staff & management from the blame is a way to avoid elections. Both Khoury and Gould have a lot riding on the elections. Khoury wants to retain chairmanship. The elected board even if unopposed or reelected vote on chairman after the election. Khoury needs a strong personal result. Khoury gets that Gould gets a 5yr extension without a review of performance.

I haven't seen the Ben Hunt threads on this page and I'm sure there would have been a dozen threads at least and 1000's of comments. I have no doubt some would have raised caution and they would have been shot down. I told another Canterbury fan from day one Hunt won't be coming and it will end in badly. Canterbury fans under estimated Shane Flanagan. There was a bit of messaging from Gould that didn't suit with what Hunt wanted to achieve. Gould trying to keep Canterbury fans at bay and angle for his 5 year extension kept saying the club is in a massive rebuild. Hunt the next day said he's not interested in a rebuild. Flanagan said no. The angle from Hunt became homesickness.

I've been shot down in here about Connor Tracey. I've outlined the NRL Top 30 roster. I've outlined Cronulla will want a logical swap. I've outlined the type of areas Cronulla would be keen on. I've outlined two players other clubs might want Fox and Kiraz they aren't types Cronulla want. I've outlined because of the negative coverage from within and the desperation to release them RFM and another player they won't be part of the trades unless we pay full freight. I've outlined other clubs have very smart operators. I got shot down. We need to critically look at things rather than jump on the bandwagons.

We are chasing every player in the game. We are completely full in the Top 30. We aren't in a poisition to write off $800k or we would. We've had to write off the Jackson retirement.

I got shot down when I said the Roosters are smart only having 26 on their roster right now. You need to have 29 by Round 1. They can sit back and not pay players from the salary cap until Round 1. If they don't sign anyone they will promote a player from within for the season. This is a work around the cap. It's simplistic to say the Roosters have brown paper bags. Oh they do. They have third party sponsorship connections. They know how to work the salary cap. Not having 30 on the books right now is smart planning.

We have exhausted our Top 30. We are trying to release and pay freight for players. We are trying to make too many changes. I'm warning these things don't work.

I can't buy into rebuild when a player like Averillo who has come through the system and played 78 games has been freely allowed to go. Those who study the Top 30 cycle, players in, players out and the balance of the Top 30 knew Averillo was gone long before a rival club snapped him up.

DCE and Foran in 2011 had a very strong and experienced coach. They had Lyon as the captain. They had Stewart as fullback. They had Stewart at lock. They had people around them. Watmough in the second row. That Manly side was another level.

Now onto two clubs. I know one member has compared us to Brisbane in praising them and criticising us. I think it was @Geoff Chambers who done this. I think it's a good anology in many regards. Brisbane had an experienced coach. He has always been a law to himself. Bennett got what he wanted first time at Brisbane, at Saints, Rabbits and now Dolphins. They got rid of Bennett in a power play. They hire Seibold. Brisbane is a massive beast. It needs someone who understands Brisbane. Seibold didn't have the runs or the authority. He gets sacked. They finally give Walters a run. Walters seemed like the natural successor. Broncos legend. Won 5 premierships 1 as captain. He was twice on Bennett's staff. He did it all the hard way. He was sacked when Bennett felt he was too comfortable. He coached Super League. He coached Queensland Cup. He coached State of Origin. He was reunited with Bennett at 2 further clubs including Broncos again I think the other Newcastle. The simplistic thing is to say Walters trained them hard and got rid of the bad apples. Brisbane only signed 4 players of note and got rid of 4 players of note. They lacked leadership. They lacked direction on field and at training. So they signed Reynolds, Capewell and Taupau for the leadership. Why didn't we look at Taupau? They needed a box office player so got Walsh. The only players they removed were Lodge, TPJ, Gamble and Oloapu. Some others left for better opportunities and they trusted their pathways. As they have done with Dene Mariner to replace Farnworth.

Another good example is the Dolphins formation. They had zero players. Their Queensland Cup made the Grand Final in 2022 on the back of Warriors players and Fuller. The rest aren't remotely close to backup NRL let alone NRL. So they had nothing to work from. How to build a squad in less than 12 months without hitting panic buttons. How they held their nerve and resolve during the rejections is remarkable. They had to get to 24 players by November 1st or they weren't in the NRL. They snuck to 24 just days before it. Hammer became player 25. Niu became player 26. They promtoed 3 development and trial players to get to 29 before Round 1. The trial player was for one year and development the following year. They added a 30th later on and the deal was back to development for 2024 and NRL in 2025. This is all on the NRL website. It's a good example to follow in slowly building a team. They signed experienced leaders Bromwich brothers and Nicholls. We didn't even look at them. We would kill for one of them. By not panicing on the signings and finding ways to get players on 1 year deals they were able to land 2 gems from Broncos and one of our best two performers for next year. One of their one year wonders is now with us.

Broncos haven't done massive clean outs. Just identified they needed experience, leadership and one box office player. Without Reynolds, Capewell and Taupau the Broncos are a club of talent and no direciton. Walters and Reynolds need each other. Taupau might not be in the 17 he's the forwards leader.

Dolphins put the leadership and experience in place. This allowed them to fill the rest of the Top 30 with rookie players like Katoa and others. They had 7 players who hadn't played NRL in their official Top 30 all made their debuts this year. Again sourced from the NRL website. They made sure they got another one year deals to have a go at getting new players. They left the door open for 6 recruits. They got 4 one of them a rookie who was injured this year.

If you have access to STAN watch the Dawn of the Dolphins series. A good insight into the running of a club struggling to get started at the next level and dealing with rejections. Provides a good understanding of Rugby League. Our very own James Graham is even featured.

Broncos and Dolphins are big fishes in Brisbane. They are also lucky they aren't clubs that have political ramifications. This is our downfall. Politics and Elections. Saints and Tigers have the merger issues. We have the faction issues. A battle for constant power. A strong coach can cut through Saints and Tigers as Bennett and Sheens have done, as Flanagan is now doing and as Marshall looks to be doing. Marshall's biggest threat will be Farah. Canterbury as I've pointed need more than a strong coach. They need strong leadership in our two clubs.

What we are seeing with our squad is aside from Criction are players genuinely not wanted by their clubs for next year. We are falling into the trap of thinking we can turn them into something else. We should have allowed ourselves the chance to retain much of our squad and just add in the key areas.

Nasheed you are right we should have been in the ball park for Reynolds, Townsend, Marshall and I've added the Bromwich brothers, Nicholls and Taupua.

We've made mistake after mistake. We trying to believe in the theory two wrongs make a right.

FFS…. I’ve got a headache reading these long a$$ posts

So Polly, who killed JFK?