Burton is just a centre (March 23)

[Marki]

Yep I know bro and I respect your opinion.

But he came to the dogs to play in the halves. If he played centre we wouldn’t see any of his running game because :

1. We don’t have the halves to get him good ball :
2. We don’t have middle forwards to get us on the front foot

Burto left Penrith because he couldn’t get a start in the halves over Luai and Cleary.

Yet we inexplicably think he would cop playing centre with us given the halves we have ????

At some point, the team must come before the player.

We recruited him off the potential he had showed in some Penrith games. By fluke, Penrith discovered his abilities make for a great centre. They had better players in the halves and so no room for him.

He comes to the dogs on that old potential but is yet to realise it. Has had ample time.

Just because he wants to play in the halves, doesn't give him a mortgage on it.

Majority of his try assists are from kicks. That's ok once in a while but you have to complement it with a passing game. No halves player in the history of the game has been just a kicker. So we better start seeing some of this soon otherwise I expect the coaches to put the team ahead of the player.

 

[Marki]

I'd personally have him at FB this year until our forwards magically grow some balls or are replaced by men and have a decent, established HB next to him.

But since that won't be happening in this write off year, just keep KO and Burton in the halves and leave them there.

Nah. If Burton needs support in the halves, he needs the fullback to play as second ball-player.

I'd put Averillo back at fullback to allow him to link with Burton and maybe take some pressure off him.

 

[Matthew G]

Someone sure is clueless. Burton is marking time at halfback. He is there as a temporary fix due to lack of alternatives. He is not a halfback and his future won’t be at halfback. His future will most likely be as a 5/8. At this point in time he is being asked to play 7.

Lad you have said Burton to fullback, thats clueless, Burton is a 6/7 100 percent , not a centre for us

 

[kmr07]

At some point, the team must come before the player.

We recruited him off the potential he had showed in some Penrith games. By fluke, Penrith discovered his abilities make for a great centre. They had better players in the halves and so no room for him.

He comes to the dogs on that old potential but is yet to realise it. Has had ample time.

Just because he wants to play in the halves, doesn't give him a mortgage on it.

Majority of his try assists are from kicks. That's ok once in a while but you have to complement it with a passing game. No halves player in the history of the game has been just a kicker. So we better start seeing some of this soon otherwise I expect the coaches to put the team ahead of the player.

And who do you propose plays ahead of Burton in the halves? Not a very smart move to move the player in your team with the most try assists away from the halves.

It’s all good and fair to say to move him, but what other alternatives are there that will do a better job?

 

[B-Train]

And who do you propose plays ahead of Burton in the halves? Not a very smart move to move the player in your team with the most try assists away from the halves.

It’s all good and fair to say to move him, but what other alternatives are there that will do a better job?

No one can ever answer that question when you ask it bro.. And if they do, they say something laughable like Josh Reynolds or Flanagan..

When you ask who we should sign from another club, you get crickets or even worse suggestions. People that want to move Burton from the halves fail to acknowledge that there are no good halves available and even less coming through. Look at Sam Walker.. Lots of people were saying we should have got him instead of Burton and now he's in Reserve Grade. People suggest Ben Hunt but he's been horrible for Saints and plays his best footy at hooker. Plus he's 34/35 and would cost a tonne..

Once again, we have no other option but to be patient with KO and Burton and hope they start to click together.

 

[B-Train]

At some point, the team must come before the player.

We recruited him off the potential he had showed in some Penrith games. By fluke, Penrith discovered his abilities make for a great centre. They had better players in the halves and so no room for him.

He comes to the dogs on that old potential but is yet to realise it. Has had ample time.

Just because he wants to play in the halves, doesn't give him a mortgage on it.

Majority of his try assists are from kicks. That's ok once in a while but you have to complement it with a passing game. No halves player in the history of the game has been just a kicker. So we better start seeing some of this soon otherwise I expect the coaches to put the team ahead of the player.

Your argument about try assists from kicks has no merit. A try assist is a try assist. The vast majority of Adam Reynolds try assists are from kicks. Same with Sherwin when he was in his prime. Neither of those two had great passing games but they were among the best halves in the comp.

Obviously Burton's kicking game isn't at that level yet and he needs to improve his passing game massively but he sets up most of our tries and is one of our only threats in attack. To suggest dropping him or putting him at centre or fullback is fairytale stuff because a) it won't happen and b) there's no one better to play instead of him.

 

[maroondog72]

No one can ever answer that question when you ask it bro.. And if they do, they say something laughable like Josh Reynolds or Flanagan..

When you ask who we should sign from another club, you get crickets or even worse suggestions. People that want to move Burton from the halves fail to acknowledge that there are no good halves available and even less coming through. Look at Sam Walker.. Lots of people were saying we should have got him instead of Burton and now he's in Reserve Grade. People suggest Ben Hunt but he's been horrible for Saints and plays his best footy at hooker. Plus he's 34/35 and would cost a tonne..

Once again, we have no other option but to be patient with KO and Burton and hope they start to click together.

Hopefully Hunt has recently become a real proposition for the dogs, I get your reservations about hunt, but its his game management we need to educate the halves we have, he plays his best footy at DH for the drags because he's the best 7 and 9 at the club. that won't be an issue for us.

 

[B-Train]

Hopefully Hunt has recently become a real proposition for the dogs, I get your reservations about hunt, but its his game management we need to educate the halves we have, he plays his best footy at DH for the drags because he's the best 7 and 9 at the club. that won't be an issue for us.

I actually think his game management is a huge issue at Saints. They could have multiple sets on the opposition try line and look more disjointed and aimless each set. Sometimes he tries to take control but it gets clunkier and clunkier. He tries. He cares. His effort is always there.. But to me he is not a solution as he has his own major flaws as a half.

If/when he leaves Saints I can see him heading back to Wayne at the Dolphins or to the Titans or somewhere..

 

[maroondog72]

I actually think his game management is a huge issue at Saints. They could have multiple sets on the opposition try line and look more disjointed and aimless each set. Sometimes he tries to take control but it gets clunkier and clunkier. He tries. He cares. His effort is always there.. But to me he is not a solution as he has his own major flaws as a half.

If/when he leaves Saints I can see him heading back to Wayne at the Dolphins or to the Titans or somewhere..

yeah we will have to agree to disagree on this one , hunt is a one man show at the dragons and defenses know that, if it wasn't for his game management the dragons would not have won a game this year. Hunt,mahony,burton/ KO and The new kid at FB is a top eight spine IMO.

 

[Gene Krupa]

If Burton’s a centre then we don’t have a half at the club lol

I think people worked that one out themselves.

Just cause a player says he is a half, doesn't make it true.

But the club is paying a centre, half's money.

 

[CMP]

Lad you have said Burton to fullback, thats clueless, Burton is a 6/7 100 percent , not a centre for us

From a team first point of view I would put Burton at FB yes. To give him some space to use his skill set. Currently we have zero go forward and our halves have no chance. It wouldn’t matter who we had in there.

Burton is currently our most likely and most talented player. My suggestion of him to fullback is for the benefit of the team. Allowing him some freedom to use is runners game and create chances. Crichton will be in the 1 next year and Burton can return to the 6. Hopefully with a better pack in front of him.

To use a comparison from the past. Burton is a Laurie Daley type player. Yes he can be a 6 but at his current stage of development and style he is a centre 5/8. Laurie Daley was a great player. Was always going to be 5/8 but spent a few years in the centres to build his game. But he wouldn’t have been a good halfback. It’s the same with Burton.

Halfbacks need to have a good passing game. They need to organise the team for what is going to unfold in the next set. That is not Burtons strength. He will flourish as a 6 if he had a game manager in the 7 along side of him.

People that think that 7 & 6 are the same position and play a similar role because they are both considered halves don’t watch or understand the game. They are two distinct positions. Burton is at the very start of his journey learning the 5/8 role. Trying to make him a 7 will take him away from his strengths.

 

[Gene Krupa]

If/when he leaves Saints I can see him heading back to Wayne at the Dolphins or to the Titans or somewhere..

That narrows it down. lol

Talk is he could go back to the Broncos.

 

[PeteHazz]

I think we're mad if we move Burton to centre. He's an out and out 5/8 who just happened to have a cracker of a season at centre at Penrith. Don't believe their BS that he's a centre. They said that to keep him because they didn't want to lose Luai.

He's young and raw, but what I've seen from him this year at his best is a player who if he can find consistency, will have a 6 on his Bulldogs back for a long time.

We're missing shedloads of talent in lots of positions, leaving almost everything to Burton. If he plays outside a crafty half, a fullback who does more than dance, a pack that creates room and with the same edges for more than a week, we'd be praising what we would see. Can't shaft him for his passing game when he's doing almost all the creating right now.

We are stone cold f$%king mad if we take him out of the halves. I love JR's passion for the club I love, but he's not the answer. KO is an infant in first grade terms (brilliant though) and Rajab is a work in progress. None are replacements for Burton.

I'm fed up AF with our performances and some of CC's decisions. Keeping Burton in the halves absolutely isn't one of them

 

[Lynchpin]

Its a clueless opinion mate, Burto has been key to any decent part of our attack this year mainly, forget the fact hes not even playing with a confirmed halves partner. People are just desperate to pick at any player to blame for our issues, Burto is a half for our future, got a lot to learn but at times hes been a class above in the halves. Not his fault our forwards arent going forward or perham at the back cant defend. Hes 23 and expected to lead the team, the games we have won hes been a big part of them, stop nit picking and lets address the actual issues in the team.

This. Double Like.

 

[B-Train]

That narrows it down. lol

Talk is he could go back to the Broncos.

If they got him as a hooker they'd go to another level. They don't need him in the halves as Mam and Reynolds have been a great combo.

 

[Marki]

That’s because the forwards are not doing there jobs, imagine our forwards have a roll on and quick play the balls.
This is why they changed burto to 7 so he can get his hand more on the ball.
But without go forward even if we had JT he won’t make a difference.

The difference is JT wouldn't die wondering.

Yes it's obviously better to have good go-forward but even with a rushing defence, a good short ball or hitting a player wide running into a hole is something he should be doing now.

We certainly don't make it any easier for him by not having players running onto the ball, but he still isn't calling the shots as either the play-maker or the captain.

Mahoney does

 

[Marki]

Honestly @Howie B, … I’m hoping they’ve made the decision to stick with Burton at 7, the way I see it your 7 needs to manage the team around the park with a huge boot and excellent running game, Burton has both those traits, he just needs some specialised half’s coaching to improve his passing and game management skills plus some patience and time .. people on TK think he should be Cleary like after 2 games when he’s never played 7 before .. it’s ridiculous, he’s the logical choice for our long term 7 …

I’m also surprised Averillo isn’t playing 6, he’s doing a decent job of centre but I don’t believe he’s powerful enough to be a modern day centre …. he has speed/the running game, he can ball play, he’s elusive and can step .. people write him off because of his stint at 7 .. he was 21 and forced by Barrett into that role and managing the team around the field wasn’t his game & he didn’t have the big boot to kick the team around the park or out of trouble, but I feel again with some specialised half’s coaching he could be an elusive Luai type 6 for us especially if they improve his short kicking game for repeat sets ..

Burton, Mahoney & Averillo kicking brings more of a threat to the oppositions defence.

Avo’s 22, Burton 23, Mahoney’s 25, Crichtons 22 ..
There’s our Bulldogs spine for years to come .. pick stick be patient train and continue to coach them.

Now go build them them an engine room to eat up the metres.

Not a bad suggestion at all -for next year and beyond

For the same reasons you mentioned, I'd like to see Avo back at fullback to play as that second 5/8th to JR or KO.

This season is not over if we can string 3-4 wins together

 

[Shreksno1]

Is he trying and failing or not trying at all?

We will never have a Leb as our halfback. They’re made for the frontline not to be generals

 

[Shreksno1]

I think people worked that one out themselves.

Just cause a player says he is a half, doesn't make it true.

But the club is paying a centre, half's money.

And when he’s worth 1.2-1.5 you will all be saying gus was a genius

 

[Marki]

And who do you propose plays ahead of Burton in the halves? Not a very smart move to move the player in your team with the most try assists away from the halves.

It’s all good and fair to say to move him, but what other alternatives are there that will do a better job?

Once again you have to look deeper than just the "try assists" column.

His try assists are probably 90% from kicks (just my guess - not taken from any stats).

Of those, some are from early tackle kicks within the 20m line and others are Hail Mary bombs and opposition errors created from defensive half or middle of the park.

What I'm saying is that he can do the Hail Mary bombs from centre position (just like SOO). The grubber ones closer to the tryline need him in the halves as do the cross field kicks to flying wingers.

The issue however is that these are pot luck plays. They don't improve your rugby league team.

In my opinion, and for the betterment of the team, I'd play our best and most creative ball playing halves in the halves and shift him to centre.

Who you ask? Well from what I've seen in the last couple of seasons, it would have to be Rajab and probably JR although him not being able to play 80mins makes it a tough choice. Averillo is another choice but I reckon he might be better used at fullback.

It's obvious to me that CC has used subtle hints to get Burton to ball-play more. But I reckon even he is starting to think it may not end up being his forte....