Religious Discussion Thread

[KLil]

This piece of shit parading as a Muslim cleric got busted.

https://australianseniorsnews.com.au/featured/religious-leader-charged-over-100000-fraud/

I hope everyone gets ever cent back off the demon.

One can only hope they kept their receipts. Otherwise hopefully it can be spread over a few legit foundations and orphanages.

 

[Kelpie03]

From the News.com.au article:

"Sauve denounced the "systemic character" of efforts to shield clergy from sex abuse claims, and urged the Church to pay reparations even though most cases are well beyond the statute of limitations for prosecution.

"The Catholic Church is, after the circle of family and friends, the environment that has the highest prevalence of sexual violence," the report said.

Sauve had already told AFP on Sunday that a "minimum estimate" of 2,900 to 3,200 paedophiles had operated in the French Church since 1950"

If your numbers are correct it would be not only disturbing but traject beyond imagination, I don't know what the setup is in France with Catholic schools, but in Australia, Catholic boys schools were run by brothers, and I've always suspected that priests got a lot of blame for what some of brothers did, nowdays all Catholic Schools are run by lay people.
Brothers had class rooms full of boys, Priests generall had very little contact with Kids, and usually only alter servers. When I served I rearily spoke to the priest and at the end of the mass we all headed off our own way.

 

[south of heaven]

Nuns used crucifixes to rape girls during decades of abuse by French clergy members — with 330,000 thousand victims covered up.
Victims of abuse within France’s Catholic Church welcomed a new report which estimated that hundreds of thousands of kids were sexually abused over the past 70 years.
The wrongdoing was covered up by Catholic authorities covered up over decades, according to the president of the commission that issued the report, Jean-Marc Sauvé.

The gift that keeps giving hey ? Would have to be the biggest pedo ring in the world the Catholic Church

 

[KambahOne]

From the News.com.au article:

"Sauve denounced the "systemic character" of efforts to shield clergy from sex abuse claims, and urged the Church to pay reparations even though most cases are well beyond the statute of limitations for prosecution.

"The Catholic Church is, after the circle of family and friends, the environment that has the highest prevalence of sexual violence," the report said.

Sauve had already told AFP on Sunday that a "minimum estimate" of 2,900 to 3,200 paedophiles had operated in the French Church since 1950"

The vatican is 100% complicit in these vile and despicable evils acts to cover up the rape of children under their care and it doesn't matter which country they occur in. The vatican oversees and funds it all and they need to be held 100% accountable.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

If your numbers are correct it would be not only disturbing but traject beyond imagination, I don't know what the setup is in France with Catholic schools, but in Australia, Catholic boys schools were run by brothers, and I've always suspected that priests got a lot of blame for what some of brothers did, nowdays all Catholic Schools are run by lay people.
Brothers had class rooms full of boys, Priests generall had very little contact with Kids, and usually only alter servers. When I served I rearily spoke to the priest and at the end of the mass we all headed off our own way.

The report estimates around 216,000 victims based on only including church officials as the perpetrators. It states that if lay persons are included then the figure goes up to 330,000 victims.

The one grace I'll give the Church is that it was Catholic Bishops who formed the commission to investigate. And when the Pope was given the news of the report, he made no excuses. He stated that it brings great sorrow and pain, and he thanked the victims for speaking out.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

That's what most anti-semites do. They blame the Jewish people for everything. "The Jews control the media" or "The Jews control the world"

It's the old anti-semitic conspiracy theory mentality that has lasted hundreds of years and lead to major atrocities, like pogroms and the holocaust.

Deut 28v37 - Moses telling the Israelites what would happen if they didn't stick to the covenant: And you shall become a horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away.

Seems like that came true...

 

[Psycho Doggie]

So France is the latest country to be added to the ever growing list of countries in which the RCC organisation has been found to be riddled with systemic child abuse. Can't believe there are still people trying to defend this. It is brutally clear, and horrifying.

A two and a half year investigation into sexual abuse within the French Catholic Church has found that 216,000 minors were victims of abuse from 1950 to 2020 – in what an independent commission on Tuesday said was a massive phenomenon covered up for decades by a "veil of silence".

The commission found that the "vast majority" of victims were pre-adolescent boys from a variety of social backgrounds.

When claims against lay members of the church such as teachers at Catholic schools are included in the figures, the number of victims climbs to 330,000 over the seven decades.

The abuse was systemic said Jean-Marc Sauvé, the head of the commission that compiled the report. Presenting the findings to the public on Tuesday he said the church had shown "profound, total and even cruel indifference towards the victims".

Not only did the church fail to prevent the abuse, he said, it also failed to report it and sometimes knowingly put children in touch with predators.

And just in case it hasn't been pointed out already, this commission was some sort witch hunt that set out to get the RCC:

The independent commission was set up by Catholic bishops in France in 2018 to shed light on abuses and restore public trust in the church.

Source

 

[The DoggFather]

Deut 28v37 - Moses telling the Israelites what would happen if they didn't stick to the covenant: And you shall become a horror, a proverb, and a byword among all the peoples where the Lord will lead you away.

Seems like that came true...

Yep, same with Matthew 10:22 - Jesus speaking...

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

PS with the Jew thing, the majority of the people use Jew in the wrong term. The Bible spoke of the people from the Synagogue of Satan IE Zionists, extremist Jews, etc and NOT the common Hebrew.

PPS there are many from the Synagogue of Satan in "Christian" and "Islamic" places of worship.

Revelation 3:10

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

 

[The DoggFather]

So France is the latest country to be added to the ever growing list of countries in which the RCC organisation has been found to be riddled with systemic child abuse. Can't believe there are still people trying to defend this. It is brutally clear, and horrifying.

A two and a half year investigation into sexual abuse within the French Catholic Church has found that 216,000 minors were victims of abuse from 1950 to 2020 – in what an independent commission on Tuesday said was a massive phenomenon covered up for decades by a "veil of silence".

The commission found that the "vast majority" of victims were pre-adolescent boys from a variety of social backgrounds.

When claims against lay members of the church such as teachers at Catholic schools are included in the figures, the number of victims climbs to 330,000 over the seven decades.

The abuse was systemic said Jean-Marc Sauvé, the head of the commission that compiled the report. Presenting the findings to the public on Tuesday he said the church had shown "profound, total and even cruel indifference towards the victims".

Not only did the church fail to prevent the abuse, he said, it also failed to report it and sometimes knowingly put children in touch with predators.

And just in case it hasn't been pointed out already, this commission was some sort witch hunt that set out to get the RCC:

The independent commission was set up by Catholic bishops in France in 2018 to shed light on abuses and restore public trust in the church.

Source

This is why I hate ALL religions. They preach one thing and do the opposite. These demons from the synagogue of Satan parade like they holy when they are clearly unholy.

Even Satan parades as an "Angel of light" to fool the masses...

2 Corinthians 11:14

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

 

[Psycho Doggie]

This is why I hate ALL religions. They preach one thing and do the opposite. These demons from the synagogue of Satan parade like they holy when they are clearly unholy.

Even Satan parades as an "Angel of light" to fool the masses...

2 Corinthians 11:14

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Completely agree about religions, early followers of Christ were loosely organised and focused on benefitting each other, the poor, and they were not politically involved. Unfortunately that changed, Constantine was one of a number of key moments in making the change to organised politically involved religion.

In regards satan I go a different direction, there doesn't seem to be a plausible way to reconcile the existence of two supernatural beings, particularly if one is a creator being and "everywhere", and the other apparent uses supernatural power contrary to the will of the first. Certainly evil exists in the natural domain. Note that in the original languages satan means opponent or opposition, and angel means messenger.

For similar reasons I don't accept the trinity either.

 

[The DoggFather]

Completely agree about religions, early followers of Christ were loosely organised and focused on benefitting each other, the poor, and they were not politically involved. Unfortunately that changed, Constantine was one of a number of key moments in making the change to organised politically involved religion.

In regards satan I go a different direction, there doesn't seem to be a plausible way to reconcile the existence of two supernatural beings, particularly if one is a creator being and "everywhere", and the other apparent uses supernatural power contrary to the will of the first. Certainly evil exists in the natural domain. Note that in the original languages satan means opponent or opposition, and angel means messenger.

For similar reasons I don't accept the trinity either.

Yes God is "everywhere" but Satan (the adversary) cannot. Sure he is powerful but not as powerful as his creator.

PS not to go full Preacher on you, but I like to describe the Trinity as the following...

The Trinity is like H20,

H2O in liquid state is water,
H2O in solid state is ice,
H2O in gas state is steam.

3 different states but still H2O.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Yes God is "everywhere" but Satan (the adversary) cannot. Sure he is powerful but not as powerful as his creator.

PS not to go full Preacher on you, but I like to describe the Trinity as the following...

The Trinity is like H20,

H2O in liquid state is water,
H2O in solid state is ice,
H2O in gas state is steam.

3 different states but still H2O.

Its not a problem, I'm fine with talking about it, I've been across many such thought processes and ideas on the subject over many years, and have been fine with agreeing to disagree many times. This is just my take, summarised...

A creator being, which would necessarily exist outside of space-time, and who must therefore fundamentally have all things under potential control, and chooses when to withhold their power or influence in order to allow consciousness to have a measure of free will, can not be reconciled with any form of supernatural power that opposes it. Biblically, all references to satan or devil fit better with the simple definition of opposition or adversary, as when Jesus calls Peter satan when Peter opposes his statement concerning his death. Ideas around different forms of supernatural evil have existed across cultures for all of recorded history, and they all pretty much boil down to two simple things, (1) we humans struggle to accept full blame for stuff we do that is in some way bad, hurtful, etc, we struggle to think of ourselves ever being bad and (2) we struggle with the concept that a creator being could allow bad things to happen. It takes a bit of the pressure off if their is some supernatural being lurking in the background causing mayhem. I feel that we are better off confronting those two questions at a personal level without resorting to supernatural explanation which ultimately just doesn't square with a supernatural creator being. Sadly the introduction of a supernatural evil being into Christianity has necessarily resolved into a punitive/transactional doctrine of atonement.

I know that I'm on very unpopular ground regarding the trinity, but it just doesn't square. A supernatural being can not die, and the Bible affirms this, and also states clearly that Jesus died, which means he does not share the nature of his father. In terms of nature or being, three do not go into one, three oranges are three oranges. Examples from the natural world, besides being irrelevant when talking about a supernatural being, usually resolve to being either the 1 thing that can take different forms, or three things that can combine in some way, but in each example the nature or state of being of the things necessarily changes. The Biblical God does not change, this is stated. None of those examples from the natural world apply directly to a supernatural being. 17 people are 1 team whenever the Bulldogs start a footy game (well, bad example, they haven't played as a team for a while, but you get what I mean). In terms of where the confusion lies, in a nutshell I'd suggest that the God of the Bible and the Christ of the Bible are one in terms of purpose and outlook, rather than one in terms of nature or being. Refer to John 14-17 to find Jesus referring to his disciples (minus Judas) as being one with himself and God, contextually he is talking about purpose. Going back to atonement, it makes a lot more sense and meaning for a human non-deity Jesus to die, as that becomes at least semi-relatable and meaningful for us. If there is a supernatural creator being, while it can bring about things in the natural world, it can not change its own nature and become non-supernatural, that just doesn't make sense, and trying to make it make sense has necessarily forced theologians to go with (1) the "mystery" of the trinity as their final argument, and (2) a punitive/transactional doctrine of atonement, because a supernatural being who somehow becomes natural and dies is not relatable, there is no humanly accessible sense of giving inherent to it, and a punitive/transactional atonement is the only option left.

I've had this debate out with a catholic priest, going through loads of Bible references, and he got to the point of basically agreeing with me that he couldn't prove the trinity from the Bible. Instead he said that RCC traditions proved it, and he didn't need the Bible. He also relied on that word "mystery" a lot.

 

[The DoggFather]

Its not a problem, I'm fine with talking about it, I've been across many such thought processes and ideas on the subject over many years, and have been fine with agreeing to disagree many times. This is just my take, summarised...

A creator being, which would necessarily exist outside of space-time, and who must therefore fundamentally have all things under potential control, and chooses when to withhold their power or influence in order to allow consciousness to have a measure of free will, can not be reconciled with any form of supernatural power that opposes it. Biblically, all references to satan or devil fit better with the simple definition of opposition or adversary, as when Jesus calls Peter satan when Peter opposes his statement concerning his death. Ideas around different forms of supernatural evil have existed across cultures for all of recorded history, and they all pretty much boil down to two simple things, (1) we humans struggle to accept full blame for stuff we do that is in some way bad, hurtful, etc, we struggle to think of ourselves ever being bad and (2) we struggle with the concept that a creator being could allow bad things to happen. It takes a bit of the pressure off if their is some supernatural being lurking in the background causing mayhem. I feel that we are better off confronting those two questions at a personal level without resorting to supernatural explanation which ultimately just doesn't square with a supernatural creator being. Sadly the introduction of a supernatural evil being into Christianity has necessarily resolved into a punitive/transactional doctrine of atonement.

I know that I'm on very unpopular ground regarding the trinity, but it just doesn't square. A supernatural being can not die, and the Bible affirms this, and also states clearly that Jesus died, which means he does not share the nature of his father. In terms of nature or being, three do not go into one, three oranges are three oranges. Examples from the natural world, besides being irrelevant when talking about a supernatural being, usually resolve to being either the 1 thing that can take different forms, or three things that can combine in some way, but in each example the nature or state of being of the things necessarily changes. The Biblical God does not change, this is stated. None of those examples from the natural world apply directly to a supernatural being. 17 people are 1 team whenever the Bulldogs start a footy game (well, bad example, they haven't played as a team for a while, but you get what I mean). In terms of where the confusion lies, in a nutshell I'd suggest that the God of the Bible and the Christ of the Bible are one in terms of purpose and outlook, rather than one in terms of nature or being. Refer to John 14-17 to find Jesus referring to his disciples (minus Judas) as being one with himself and God, contextually he is talking about purpose. Going back to atonement, it makes a lot more sense and meaning for a human non-deity Jesus to die, as that becomes at least semi-relatable and meaningful for us. If there is a supernatural creator being, while it can bring about things in the natural world, it can not change its own nature and become non-supernatural, that just doesn't make sense, and trying to make it make sense has necessarily forced theologians to go with (1) the "mystery" of the trinity as their final argument, and (2) a punitive/transactional doctrine of atonement, because a supernatural being who somehow becomes natural and dies is not relatable, there is no humanly accessible sense of giving inherent to it, and a punitive/transactional atonement is the only option left.

I've had this debate out with a catholic priest, going through loads of Bible references, and he got to the point of basically agreeing with me that he couldn't prove the trinity from the Bible. Instead he said that RCC traditions proved it, and he didn't need the Bible. He also relied on that word "mystery" a lot.

I for one encourage debate, I'm not aiming to convert anyone that's not interested. I just find it weird when believers believe God is the intelligent creator but can't be 3 forms at one time.

Plus respectful debates are healthy. Also I believe we can't fully understand God as it would remove free will (seeing is believing).

PS I rated your post wow for your last paragraph. Pretty shitty "priest" if he follows the RCC and doesn't need the Bible...

PPS I don't fall for the "devil made me do it". If people read the Bible, they would know the devil and his demons have NEVER made anyone do anything, they just tempt and suggest sin and it's up to the individual to proceed or not.

Satan, Lucifer, was a very powerful angel and had his own free will. He wanted to rebel but obviously lost and got thrown down to this shithole (Earth, not hell) and took a 1/3 of the angels that chose to follow him.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

PS I rated your post wow for your last paragraph. Pretty shitty "priest" if he follows the RCC and doesn't need the Bible...

Yeah, it was a wow moment. It kind leaves nothing more to talk about. I've since come across others who've had similar or worse experiences debating such things, especially with Jesuits.

 

[The DoggFather]

Yeah, it was a wow moment. It kind leaves nothing more to talk about. I've since come across others who've had similar or worse experiences debating such things, especially with Jesuits.

Don't get me started on the Jesuits....

 

[Kelpie03]

Nuns used crucifixes to rape girls during decades of abuse by French clergy members — with 330,000 thousand victims covered up.
Victims of abuse within France’s Catholic Church welcomed a new report which estimated that hundreds of thousands of kids were sexually abused over the past 70 years.
The wrongdoing was covered up by Catholic authorities covered up over decades, according to the president of the commission that issued the report, Jean-Marc Sauvé.

The gift that keeps giving hey ? Would have to be the biggest pedo ring in the world the Catholic Church

A person who is so obsessed with hate as you are will always deliver sickly rubbish and yours is a classic, you obviously don't know anything about the Catholic Church, If the abuse was as wide spread as you say then not only the clergy but also the faithfull parishionars, as well as the parents of the kids would have known about it and by not speaking up would have been complicit.
I grant you that Catholic School were at times run by some nasty angry teaches,(mainly boys) who used ruthless discipline some times when they did'nt have too, I know for a fact that many complaints against the Church were as a result of the discipline in their Schools. BTW that type of discipline was considered acceptable by law those days.
Perhaps you could give us an insite into what has turned you into hating the Catholic Church so much, and a bit about your background, if you can be honest of course.
As for Nun raping girls with crucifixes, I always thought that raping involved a man/men penetrating a girl or boy forcefully, so please explain exactally what you meant so please explain.

 

[south of heaven]

As for Nun raping girls with crucifixes, I always thought that raping involved a man/men penetrating a girl or boy forcefully, so please explain exactally what you meant so please explain.

Sorry what would you define nuns fucking kids with crucifixes?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

A person who is so obsessed with hate as you are will always deliver sickly rubbish and yours is a classic, you obviously don't know anything about the Catholic Church, If the abuse was as wide spread as you say then not only the clergy but also the faithfull parishionars, as well as the parents of the kids would have known about it and by not speaking up would have been complicit.
I grant you that Catholic School were at times run by some nasty angry teaches,(mainly boys) who used ruthless discipline some times when they did'nt have too, I know for a fact that many complaints against the Church were as a result of the discipline in their Schools. BTW that type of discipline was considered acceptable by law those days.
Perhaps you could give us an insite into what has turned you into hating the Catholic Church so much, and a bit about your background, if you can be honest of course.
As for Nun raping girls with crucifixes, I always thought that raping involved a man/men penetrating a girl or boy forcefully, so please explain exactally what you meant so please explain.

Rape is just sexual penetration without consent. It doesn't have to be a man.

Not that this should matter. Rape is rape. Call it sexual assault if you want. Doesn't make it any less worse because it's a woman.

 

[south of heaven]

A person who is so obsessed with hate as you are will always deliver sickly rubbish

I'm not a priest in power or a Nun raping kids, what's sickly again someone posting what happened or a vile corrupt institution covering up decades apon decades of peodophillia?

 

[south of heaven]

Perhaps you could give us an insite into what has turned you into hating the Catholic Church

Probably the decades of covering up raping kids gave me hatred to the vile corrupt institution. The day they string these priests up and burn them alive will be a blessing