Shaun Johnson consolidated thread

[Teddybear]

All good things take time

 

[Nasheed]

The methodology was pretty simple, if you have say a $600k player ($1.8m for 3 years) then you "under pay" him $250k in the first year, pay him about the right amount in the 2nd year and them "over pay" him $250k in the 3rd year. The belief being that you can move him on at the end of the 2nd year and avoid paying the $850k in the 3rd year. Effectively you have had a $1.2m player ($600k x 2 years) and only had $850k in your Cap (for the 2 years combined). Do that with half of your regular 19 NRL players and you have $12m "worth" of players and still be under a $9m Cap.

The Cap is audited by year, they don't care about next year or the year after, only what is the Cap this year and what is the total value of contracts this year. If the total value of player contracts this year is under this year's Cap then all is well. Of course the NRL knew that if players weren't offloaded before next year then there would be Cap breach. But it wasn't against the NRL rules at that time to have back ended contracts, so no issue until the year it actually happens. It was actually going to happen to us in 2018, without drastic actions being taken we were going to be more than $3m over the Cap.

Looking back 2012 was the year that started the rot for Hasler, we were supposed to win the premiership that year and offload the back ended contracted players in 2013. Then the repeat in 2014 was just the final nail in that coffin, same problem no one wanted to pay the inflated player contracts so we had to pay other teams to take them. In 2017 the true extent of the back ending was "discovered" by the Board and we all know what happened after that.

FWIW we didn't start this, Melbourne did similar from 2006 to 2010 where, as we all know, they had 2 contracts, one registered with the NRL and one of a higher value that the players were actually paid to. The NRL contract versions were the same value each year but the players' contract versions were actually back ended, a concept that Hasler used at Manly in 2010 and 2011 and then brought to us.


Always a Bulldog

Just to add,
the insane back ending stuff isnt actually the disaster many make out.
You can assemble a pretty decent squad year in and year out, if, and tis is the key, the insane backended contracts dont run into a season with more than one other.
So it works if you approach it like this:
2020- Beastwood and Tolman have their inflated year
21- Holland and Foran inflated year

and so forth, you need to overlap om each other.

There is a downside, and that is it locks you into a perpetual cycle of backended contracts, that can only be broken by doing what we did the last 2 seasons.

But the intellectual argument is if it needs to be broken? just plan your players big third year away from the others to avoid them coming to a head.

Another plus or minus is it stops plyers wanting to break contract, but thats a sword with a double edge as you see with the DWZ scenario.
Works a treat though if medical retirements factor in.

 

[Howie B]

Well no chance of mid season switch Townsend to warriors mid season.. why are we soo slow with getting shit done

Because Townsend was playing reggies so they didn’t need him.

Also warriors still a chance to make the 8.

We are already planning for next year. Mid Season transfers won’t do anything for us.

 

[piggy]

I understand but a lot of people thought Flanagan was the next big thing that’s why we bought him.
Can’t blame that on Barrett.

Um.....didn’t barrett sign him for 3 years....didn’t Barrett say he will be as good as Cleary....his signing is on barrett....he made a mistake...and it will cost us 450k for the next 3 years to play him in reggies

 

[Nasheed]

Um.....didn’t barrett sign him for 3 years....didn’t Barrett say he will be as good as Cleary....his signing is on barrett....he made a mistake...and it will cost us 450k for the next 3 years to play him in reggies

Do you remember the quote "He was a player I already wanted for the team and was going to wait until he got off contract".

So not only did he think he was good, he wasnt even 'best of now' he thought he was a player who could be the best in the comp?
Thats how much idea he doesnt has

 

[The DoggFather]

Um.....didn’t barrett sign him for 3 years....didn’t Barrett say he will be as good as Cleary....his signing is on barrett....he made a mistake...and it will cost us 450k for the next 3 years to play him in reggies

Don't worry, the dud will follow daddy Where ever he ends up.

 

[EzyB]

Um.....didn’t barrett sign him for 3 years....didn’t Barrett say he will be as good as Cleary....his signing is on barrett....he made a mistake...and it will cost us 450k for the next 3 years to play him in reggies

Barrett fucked up im not saying he didn’t.
but as I was saying people thought he was going to be the next Cleary that’s why we took the gamble.
Yes it didn’t pay off, it’s not like Barrett sat there and said how am I going to screw the dogs.

 

[Nasheed]

Barrett fucked up im not saying he didn’t.
but as I was saying people thought he was going to be the next Cleary that’s why we took the gamble.
Yes it didn’t pay off, it’s not like Barrett sat there and said how am I going to screw the dogs.

Who else was saying it though?
I definitely wasnt. Roosters werent.
My friend Salim who watche him week in and out because if supercoach said he was a fraud last yr.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Barrett fucked up im not saying he didn’t.
but as I was saying people thought he was going to be the next Cleary that’s why we took the gamble.
Yes it didn’t pay off, it’s not like Barrett sat there and said how am I going to screw the dogs.

I like Barrett, but the Flanagan buy was disappointing, Baz should of known better.

 

[Matthew G]

When is Johnson signing?!

 

[EzyB]

Who else was saying it though?
I definitely wasnt. Roosters werent.
My friend Salim who watche him week in and out because if supercoach said he was a fraud last yr.

Even when he was at the sharks he was getting interest, not only that the roosters got him to replace Cronk.
I’m not defending Flanagan he is a fraud and shit ****,
I’m just saying Barrett saw something in him and took a gamble on him.
Yes it didn’t work out.

 

[EzyB]

I like Barrett, but the Flanagan buy was disappointing, Baz should of known better.

I agree but baz thought he can make him a superstar.

 

[CMP]

Well no chance of mid season switch Townsend to warriors mid season.. why are we soo slow with getting shit done

What’s the point of bringing him the season anyway?

He isn’t going to save us this season regardless.

 

[gibbo2]

A HB must be able to run, i.e take on and trouble the defence otherwise he's very predictable and the defence knows he's just passing the ball and the whoever receives the ball is going to get smashed. Flanno's passing and kicking game is crap as well. He's only had 1 good game and the rest were shite. Avo's passing and kicking game is ordinary but no worse than Flanno. The problem is Flanno doesn't have the fundamental skills that every HB should have before they even play first grade and the only incentive for the club to train him is that he takes up 450k in the cap for 2.5 more years.

Flanno is a better 7 than Avo. Case in point on the weekend were Avo had no game awareness that it’s last tackle inside his own 30 and throws a terrible pass that hits Napa’s head. Flannos passing and kicking game are reasonable. Your assessment is very harsh in those respects. I also agree that you need to be able to run the ball and I said this in my reply to your post. My point was that a half back needs to direct a team around the park as well as being able to run.

 

[gibbo2]

Thats factually incorrect. Averilo has a pretty decent kicking game. He just lacks the experience to make the right kick on every play.

That’s a silly comment . It’s like me saying that I spin a good leg break but can’t hit the pitch with it. Avos kick is the same bomb to the same corner. He had more experience than Sam Walker manages to get his kicks right. Let’s face it Avo can run the ball but that’s about it .

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Flanno is a better 7 than Avo. Case in point on the weekend were Avo had no game awareness that it’s last tackle inside his own 30 and throws a terrible pass that hits Napa’s head. Flannos passing and kicking game are reasonable. Your assessment is very harsh in those respects. I also agree that you need to be able to run the ball and I said this in my reply to your post. My point was that a half back needs to direct a team around the park as well as being able to run.

Flanagan is a better nothing, Averillo is playing halfback because that **** was fucking useless.

 

[Apex Cedar]

Because Townsend was playing reggies so they didn’t need him.

Also warriors still a chance to make the 8.

We are already planning for next year. Mid Season transfers won’t do anything for us.

Was referring to us announcing signing always takes an age look how quick warriors do there business

 

[Teddybear]

Flannos minders back on the kennel having another crack.
Shall I remind you without avo we don't beat St George, avo can run, kick, pass, tackle and has x factor.
Flanno is predictable

 

[DaBulldog]

The good news: we have our first quality halfback since Kimmorley.

The better news: Flanagan's days are numbered

I read something last week that SJ deal was supposed to be sorted early this week. Now that wednesday is almost over, hopefully the deal didn’t go pear shaped. We need experience in the halves. Flanagan can’t cope with pressure and needs to go ASAP. The club needs to except that choice was a dud and work out how to offload him.

 

[bulldogsmyte]

Flanno is a better 7 than Avo. Case in point on the weekend were Avo had no game awareness that it’s last tackle inside his own 30 and throws a terrible pass that hits Napa’s head. Flannos passing and kicking game are reasonable. Your assessment is very harsh in those respects. I also agree that you need to be able to run the ball and I said this in my reply to your post. My point was that a half back needs to direct a team around the park as well as being able to run.

>"Flanno is a better 7 than Avo."
In the words of McEnroe, you cannot be serious.
>"Avo had no game awareness"
I posted on another thread somewhere that Avo screwed up with that stupid pass. However how is Flanno's awareness any better? What about our first match against St George where our forward dominated in the first half and gifted Flanno field position in the red zone and Flanno kicks out on the full on the first tackle? Time and time again when he was in prime attacking position because of our forwards Flanno screwed up on the last play so bad in that match that TB hooked him off at half time.
>"Flannos passing and kicking game are reasonable"
How many times does he engage the defence and put a player through a hole with his passing? He is so scared of getting hit that he passes so early before the line that the defence knows exactly where the ball is going and they smash the dogs player who catches it.
If Flanno's passing and kicking was as good as you are suggesting then he should be killing it in reserves and setting up several tries per match.
>"My point was that a half back needs to direct a team around the park as well as being able to run."
Please explain how does Flanno direct a team around the park? Throwing meaningless passes 5 times per set and kick a bomb on the last is not directing a time around the park.