Coronavirus.

[south of heaven]

Do you have any opinions on Brazil, Peru, Chile Spain, Belgium and the UK, all of which have higher death rates per capita than the U.S?

Or Israel, Bahrain, Qatar, Belgium and the Czech republic all of whom have higher infection rates per capita than the U.S?

The U.S. clearly has high numbers, but there sure is an unusually large amount of attention on them, given they are no where near the worst (when you measure per capita)

Brazil a 3rd world country like India is managing to reduce numbers ,now i doubt their " official numbers" i don't doubt their medical staff making claims hospitals are easing off ,how long it will last i got no idea they could be in for a second wave knock out,Indonesia has nearly 200 dead drs and nurses yet their numbers don't reflect that europe is fucked ,it seems countries that had a go can contain and live with it but the fucker is going to rape the northern hemisphere this year no risk, and we still do not know the full effects of this

 

[Dawgfather]

The attention is on them because they claim to be a world leader

Trump has come closer to telling the truth about COVID than most other politicians and media outlets. The way most politicians and media have behaved, you would think that anyone could just keel over and die from catching COVID. The reality is that COVID is not dangerous for the vast majority of people. For the tiny percentage of people that it's actually dangerous for, the survival rate is incredibly high.

There is nothing controversial about pointing these things out. It's only controversial because you have media outlets telling you to head for the hills instead of going about your usual life.

Most people think that people are being massacred left right and centre. But this is not true.

For example, the excess death rate (from any cause) in the U.S. is currently lower for almost every single age category when compared to actual death rates from the last 5 years:

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19, by Age and ...

This report describes the estimated excess deaths reported in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020, with 66% excess deaths attributed to COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

On the topic of the U.S. leading the world - they've clearly lead the world on vaccine development. They were also fairly advanced in implementing border controls against major regions like China and Europe. When the ban on China and Europe came into place, most mainstream media and political commentators acted shocked, so it was a fairly ballsy call to make.

Mask wearing in most countries has become (to some extent) political, this is because politicians have implemented mask mandates without scientific evidence for them. People don't react well when they don't see a good reason for government mandates. This includes arbitrary mandates which don't take into account infection or death numbers or even whether the mandates have any benefits (e.g. mask wearing in the outdoors and regardless of whether anyone is around you). Or my favourite from California (wearing a mask when attending a restaurant and in between bites. So you have to pull your mask down to take a bite and then pull your mask up while you chew).

 

[south of heaven]

Trump has come closer to telling the truth about COVID than most other politicians and media outlets. The way most politicians and media have behaved, you would think that anyone could just keel over and die from catching COVID. The reality is that COVID is not dangerous for the vast majority of people. For the tiny percentage of people that it's actually dangerous for, the survival rate is incredibly high.

There is nothing controversial about pointing these things out. It's only controversial because you have media outlets telling you to head for the hills instead of going about your usual life.

Most people think that people are being massacred left right and centre. But this is not true.

For example, the excess death rate (from any cause) in the U.S. is currently lower for almost every single age category when compared to actual death rates from the last 5 years:

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19, by Age and ...

This report describes the estimated excess deaths reported in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020, with 66% excess deaths attributed to COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 18589


On the topic of the U.S. leading the world - they've clearly lead the world on vaccine development. They were also fairly advanced in implementing border controls against major regions like China and Europe. When the ban on China and Europe came into place, most mainstream media and political commentators acted shocked, so it was a fairly ballsy call to make.

Mask wearing in most countries has become (to some extent) political, this is because politicians have implemented mask mandates without scientific evidence for them. People don't react well when they don't see a good reason for government mandates. This includes arbitrary mandates which don't take into account infection or death numbers or even whether the mandates have any benefits (e.g. mask wearing in the outdoors and regardless of whether anyone is around you). Or my favourite from California (wearing a mask when attending a restaurant and in between bites. So you have to pull your mask down to take a bite and then pull your mask up while you chew).

Lol he can tell what ever truth, is pointless without no action, could he of not done any more to help his own country? HONESTLY?
YOU keep dismissing its not that bad yet again single country in pretty much 8 months has had over qauter of a million people dead and who knows what cost on their medical system,
When in you're eyes does it become a major concern?
I'll give you a wild assumption that I would almost bet a testicle on by Xmas the will be getting near 3000 deaths a day and the American people will finally hit panic mode and its all to late, also keep an eye on their dollar over the next 3 months

 

[Dawgfather]

Lol he can tell what ever truth, is pointless without no action, could he of not done any more to help his own country? HONESTLY?
YOU keep dismissing its not that bad yet again single country in pretty much 8 months has had over qauter of a million people dead and who knows what cost on their medical system,
When in you're eyes does it become a major concern?
I'll give you a wild assumption that I would almost bet a testicle on by Xmas the will be getting near 3000 deaths a day and the American people will finally hit panic mode and its all to late, also keep an eye on their dollar over the next 3 months

Of course it's a major concern from a macro level. I just don't think it's a productive course of action to run around saying everything is on fire and we all need to panic. I'm someone who places a lot of value on individual freedoms, so I'm never going to be supportive of blanket government mandates to (for example) stopping people running their business (or practicing their religion).

But I do think practical measures should be taken - social distance wherever possible. If you're in a high risk category then you need to be particularly careful about your health and the measures you take to protect yourself.

I'm more interested in the government spending it's time to come up with better drugs, better hospital care and eventually a vaccine to be provided to those high risk individuals and medical and aged care workers.

Yes, there are a certain number of deaths per day from COVID (around 1,100 per day on average right now in america).

There are also (approx) 1,794 deaths per day from heart disease, and around 1,641 per day from cancer. Should we stop life as we know it so we can solve these two issues as well? how about the 131 people who die a day from suicide in America? How about the ~47,000 americans who die each year from opioid overdoses?

What will be the associated impact on mental health by mandating lock downs, stopping people from going to their work place each day, stopping family members from seeing each other and forcing people to stay home without human contact?

Lockdowns are not backed by science and they very likely cause more problems than they suggest they can fix.

 

[wendog33]

No offence but I don't bother replying to Dawg.

 

[Dawgfather]

No offence but I don't bother replying to Dawg.

Why bother actually challenging your idea of the world, when you can just chat to some boys who will stroke your ego and agree with everything you write.

 

[CaptainJackson]

No offence but I don't bother replying to Dawg.

His last post was so devoid of logic. seriously reading the shit he posted made my jaw drop.

And dawgfather no I'm not going to waste my time replying to you, because YOU DENY FACTS

 

[Psycho Doggie]

It is noticeable that some people in this thread talk purely about survival rates, and don't seem to give any acknowledgement to the rapidly developing knowledge around what some are calling "long covid", which is certainly effecting previously healthy people in their 30s and 40s.

Also, does anyone else find it a bit disturbing when someone says they aren't afraid of covid because they are young and healthy, because the implication from that is that they don't give a stuff about the people around them? Seems like an alarmingly self-centred attitude.

 

[CroydonDog]

I think you'd find that without the threat of extra tax, not being able to get your kids into child care or the restriction on travel, vaccination rates would likely be half of what they currently are.

Nonsense. You only need rates to fall back towards 90% to threaten herd immunity.

No jab no play types of rules/incentives are quite new and have come about because of slightly lowering rates of immunisation which is dangerous as you need well over 90% immunisation rates for herd immunity, probably caused by two things:

1. We live in the developed world, where people have completely forgotten about shit like Polio. In many countries, people travel for days to get to immunisation clinics. In places like Pakistan, people are killed trying to get people vaccinated.

2. Shitbag anti vaxxers getting traction on social media.

"Half"? Lol.

 

[wendog33]

Why bother actually challenging your idea of the world, when you can just chat to some boys who will stroke your ego and agree with everything you write.

If there was one skerrick of evidence, based on past interactions with you, that you could deviate from your hard and fast and oft repeated discussion points and opinions, then I would entertain the idea ....but nah...not at this time.

If others want to engage and beat their head against brick walls...well....it's a free country.

All the best.

 

[south of heaven]

Of course it's a major concern from a macro level. I just don't think it's a productive course of action to run around saying everything is on fire and we all need to panic. I'm someone who places a lot of value on individual freedoms, so I'm never going to be supportive of blanket government mandates to (for example) stopping people running their business (or practicing their religion).

But I do think practical measures should be taken - social distance wherever possible. If you're in a high risk category then you need to be particularly careful about your health and the measures you take to protect yourself.

I'm more interested in the government spending it's time to come up with better drugs, better hospital care and eventually a vaccine to be provided to those high risk individuals and medical and aged care workers.

Yes, there are a certain number of deaths per day from COVID (around 1,100 per day on average right now in america).

There are also (approx) 1,794 deaths per day from heart disease, and around 1,641 per day from cancer. Should we stop life as we know it so we can solve these two issues as well? how about the 131 people who die a day from suicide in America? How about the ~47,000 americans who die each year from opioid overdoses?

What will be the associated impact on mental health by mandating lock downs, stopping people from going to their work place each day, stopping family members from seeing each other and forcing people to stay home without human contact?

Lockdowns are not backed by science and they very likely cause more problems than they suggest they can fix.

There's also 40,000 gun deaths in America each year its a rather simple solution to fix but yet it never will be ,most of us when port auther happened said yeah banning guns is not all that terrible and for most of us it won't impact our lives, a bit like coronavirus most of us done the social distance put a mask on when needed and done the right things sacrifice a little to gain a lot. Look at Adelaide lockdown 6 days crush it get back to semi normal.
Mental health yep sure it will have an impact being a suffering from form of depression and chronic anxiety for years im actually doing good with this whole thing i may be the odd one out but a few weeks of doom and gloom lock down would be a tad more bearable than watching family members die on face time

 

[Dawgfather]

It is noticeable that some people in this thread talk purely about survival rates, and don't seem to give any acknowledgement to the rapidly developing knowledge around what some are calling "long covid", which is certainly effecting previously healthy people in their 30s and 40s.

You can add that one the 'panic porn' filling the internets and channel 9/7/10/ABC news bulletins. Any numbers or context to provide alongside your demands that everyone panic and 'bunker down'?

FYI 4,426 people between the age of 35-44 have died from COVID out of a population of 41,659,000 in that age bracket. That's roughly 1 in 1000.

If you go to 25-34 age bracket it's roughly 1 in 10,000.

When you put this alongside the many papers that show the vast majority of COVID deaths occur in people with underlying health conditions, it makes you wonder why fit healthy people would be so panicked about an illness which will likely have no impact on them.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

Also, does anyone else find it a bit disturbing when someone says they aren't afraid of covid because they are young and healthy, because the implication from that is that they don't give a stuff about the people around them? Seems like an alarmingly self-centred attitude.

It is possible to have concern for yourself, whilst also caring about others. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yes I can be infected. I have a feeling I actually had COVID in January, but there's no evidence for that apart from the symptoms I had which match the described symptoms of COVID.

Regardless of this, if I get COVID, so be it. You can't live life in isolation (perhaps for a few days, but certainly not for any longer).

Particularly given the lack of cases in the country, the idea that I would contract the virus and also pass it on are remote at best.

My stance may be different if we were living in a country where thousands of cases were occurring on a daily basis. However they clearly aren't.

Yep. Not debating that. My point is that if your reason not to get a vaccine is because you won't get sick, then you have to consider the other people who may actually get sick.

We can all say now that cases are so low that it doesn't matter, but this is a highly infectious disease and if 50% of the population refuse the vaccine and we go back to normal, then we become Italy. Many die.

 

[Dawgfather]

If there was one skerrick of evidence, based on past interactions with you, that you could deviate from your hard and fast and oft repeated discussion points and opinions, then I would entertain the idea ....but nah...not at this time.

If others want to engage and beat their head against brick walls...well....it's a free country.

All the best.

"No offence but I don't bother replying to Dawg".

You never seemed to be someone with conviction. Just floating with the breeze.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

You can add that one the 'panic porn' filling the internets and channel 9/7/10/ABC news bulletins. Any numbers or context to provide alongside your demands that everyone panic and 'bunker down'?

FYI 4,426 people between the age of 35-44 have died from COVID out of a population of 41,659,000 in that age bracket. That's roughly 1 in 1000.

If you go to 25-34 age bracket it's roughly 1 in 10,000.

When you put this alongside the many papers that show the vast majority of COVID deaths occur in people with underlying health conditions, it makes you wonder why fit healthy people would be so panicked about an illness which will likely have no impact on them.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.

www.cdc.gov

It is possible to have concern for yourself, whilst also caring about others. The two are not mutually exclusive.

You can't really compare death stats to total population as it suggests the entire population is infected.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Any numbers or context to provide alongside your demands that everyone panic and 'bunker down'?

Where did I make such demands?

When you put this alongside the many papers that show the vast majority of COVID deaths occur in people with underlying health conditions, it makes you wonder why fit healthy people would be so panicked about an illness which will likely have no impact on them.

It is possible to have concern for yourself, whilst also caring about others. The two are not mutually exclusive.

And... besides the willful misrepresentation of most people by using the word "panicked", do you seriously not see the contradiction in the above two sentences?

 

[CaptainJackson]

I'm following this thread for dawgfather to blame South Australia's Covid on Dan Andrews

 

[Dawgfather]

You can't really compare death stats to total population as it suggests the entire population is infected.

True. I agree with this, but it still provides some context about how many people are actually dying.

A better comparison would be number dead in each category versus number infected (but in the 10 mins I spent looking, I couldn't find the matching infection count stats).

 

[Dawgfather]

I'm following this thread for dawgfather to blame South Australia's Covid on Dan Andrews

Any state premier stupid enough to over react to a few cases of covid by locking their state down and blocking borders etc doesn't deserve to remain as premier IMO.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Any state premier stupid enough to over react to a few cases of covid by locking their state down and blocking borders etc doesn't deserve to remain as premier IMO.

I know it's burning you, just do it, blame Dan Andrews