The full extent and repercussions of Canterbury’s salary cap hell

[Mr Invisible]

I think Deathspell just dropped the post of the century...Awesome post...

Also if Graham and Kas drop off what we are paying them, surely that's close to $700k a season per player. Then you release Eastwood, Frawley, Cleeland, Burr, Priest. Sign the rest up, and surely we can retain Morris twins.

 

[Deathspell]

For starters Lachlan Burr and Tom Carr are second tier players and thus are excluded from the 30 man squad in relation to the salary cap for the first grade squad. So that’s 12 to feed off $800k not 14. Now if the club can offload 2 decent contracted players and potentially save $1m, we will have $1.8m to share amongst 12. Most of these players will be fringe first graders, give them $150k each. I don’t think it’s as bad as what the media makes it out to be.

At least 4 of the remaining 9 (Morris twins - Eastwood excluded) will not even get $150k.

For players 1 to 26 minimum wage is $100k in 2018 and increases at $5,000 p.a until 2022.
For players 27 to 30 minimum wage is $70k in 2018 and increases at $2,500 p.a until 2022.

The media is making it out like we've got a stack of 1st graders off contract.
The only 3 players worth consideration are Martin,JMK and perhaps Lewis.The 1st two will be happy they are getting a 1st grade opportunity and wouldn't push their luck and screw up their career.
Priest still needs to turn his career around before other clubs will be interested.
I doubt we'll be competing with other clubs for Cleeland,Frawley,Woolford,Fine and Cerruto.
Burr and Carr might make 1st tier replacing 2 players from the 5 players listed above.But they will only be players 27 to 30 worth $72500 each in 2019.
And unless Frawley finds an ancient Juju plant and suddenly turns into another JT,I think he'll be peeling oranges at 'Terry Lamb park' next year.

 

[bells76]

I know some of the legal firms that are involved in the formation of a lot of NRL's contracts (Agreements) personally.Currently I'm using one of these firm's services to assist with commercial contracts made under common law.That are subject to my client's defense,listed in front of the Supreme Court against the Crime Commission.There is no way a journalist can know or a player's managers can disclose any of the Agreement's details without being in violation under common law.This is the reason why.
The contents below is straight out of an old Agreement that has been fulfilled and is currently not active.These sections included in the Agreements are the reason why.
***For clarity GROUP means National Rugby League.

SECTION 3:
OBLIGATIONS OF THE PLAYER

3.1 General Obligations
The Player agrees to:

(t) the Club and the player or his representatives disclosing to the Group only any financial information relating to him which the Group requests be provided to it.

SECTION 19: CONFIDENTIALITY

19.1 Terms to be Kept Confidential.
The terms of this Agreement are confidential and shall not be disclosed by either party to any person or entity other than the GROUP,its servants or agents,without the prior written consent of the other of them, except for the purpose of:

(a) obtaining legal or financial advice; or
(b) the performance or the enforcement of the performance of the several obligations expressed herein.

SECTION 16: NEGOTIATING WITH OTHER CLUBS

16.1 Negotiations
During the Employment Term,the Player must not enter into any discussions,negotiations,contract,agreement,arrangement,understanding or option to play the Game for any other club without giving written instruction to the club including the details and remuneration.All negotiations should not be subject to the media or ought to be known as a member of the media,or any other party not employed by the club,to protect all parties involved,the GROUP'S and code's integrity and safeguard the code from competitive organizations.

16.2 Deemed Negotiations
For the purposes of Clause 16.1,if the manager, agent or representative of the Player enters into any discussions,negotiations,contract,agreement,arrangement,understanding or option to play the Game for any other club on behalf of the Player,then the Player shall be deemed to have authorized his manager,agent or representative to do so on his behalf.Authorized personnel are not to disclose any details of this contract to the media or ought to be known as a member of the media or to other parties not employed by the club.They must sign confidentiality agreements authorized by all clubs involved,to protect all parties involved,the GROUP'S and code's integrity and safeguard the code from competitive organizations.

***how does the media know the following section wasn't enacted after the new board was elected.

Section 21: Changed Circumstances

21.1 Player's Obligations if Circumstances Change
This Agreement has been entered into by the Club on the basis that the payments specified in it are fully inclusive of all payments except payroll tax that the Club is required to pay to or on behalf of the Player under any legislation,award or other industrial instrument that is in force during the Employment Term.If the Club is required to make any additional payment to or on behalf of the Player as a result of any new or amended legislation,award or other industrial instrument coming into force after the date of this Agreement,the Club shall be entitled to terminate this Agreement if the Player does not,within 21 days of being requested in writing to do so,enter into a new agreement for the balance of the Employment Term upon financial terms that will ensure that the total payments by the Club for each season in respect of the Player does not exceed the amount of the payments stated in this Agreement.

21.2 Clubs obligations if circumstance change
Clubs can amend together with the players consent any basis of the payments outlined in this Agreement.Both parties can enter into a new Agreement for the balance of the employment term where the balance of all previous forward payments and back payments do not amount to the payments stated in this Agreement.The club cannot offset any inclusive past payments made under any legislation,award or other industrial instrument but is required to restart fully inclusive all payments as outlined in this Agreement.

Section 27: Entire Agreement

This Agreement contains all of the terms of the agreement between the Player and the Club.Any information disclosed therein can only be known,shared,inspected and forwarded to the GROUP,unless required for legal or medical circumstances as outlined in sections:

5.2 Termination due to health risk.
6.1 Termination due toIncapacity.
6.2,6.2 (b),6.3,6.4 (ii) Payment on Termination.
8.1,8.2,8.3,8.4,8.5 (c) & (e) Player's Obligations.
9.1,9.1(a) Release of a player.
10 Fines and advances.
11 Disputes.
12 Insurance.
13 Health fund Membership.
14 Suspension of a player.
18.1 Representations and Warranties
21.1 Players Obligations if Circumstances Change.

***These next two sections are important,because it makes the Agreement's governance and disputes subject to common law,instead of an organization's constitutional's laws or code of practice.As clubs and NRL are subject to 'Registered Club Act 1976' for regulations and the 'Corporations Act 2001' for financial operations.Reason Agreements are governed by NSW laws,is because the NRL,that is run by the fully incorporated Australian Rugby League Commission is located in Sydney.

SECTION 26: SEVERABILITY

26.1 Agreement to be Upheld.
Where Possible.If it appears to any court that any restraint imposed or undertaken by this Agreement is invalid, or void, to any extent by,force of any statutory
provision or by reason or partly by reason of being an unreasonable restraint of trade, the parties agree that such restraint shall be valid to such extent, if any, as the court thinks fit and shall otherwise be severable from the other terms of this Agreement with the intent that this Agreement shall be read and construed as operating to the fullest extent in all respects.

SECTION 28: GOVERNING LAW

28.1 Governing Law.
This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of New South Wales and the parties submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of its courts.

So yes the media can speculate so can anyone else on the planet,but to report as if they know the exact details of our salary cap problem is sensationalism.Unless our new board are stupid enough to want to crush our club's moral.Possible,if their agenda is to excuse themselves and point blame at the previous board.Otherwise there is no way the media would know the full extent or contents of the Agreements.

What a load of dribble , player managers have been told to not bother shopping players to us because we have no money !!! That’s not confidential is a fucking fact!!!

 

[bells76]

I think Deathspell just dropped the post of the century...Awesome post...

Also if Graham and Kas drop off what we are paying them, surely that's close to $700k a season per player. Then you release Eastwood, Frawley, Cleeland, Burr, Priest. Sign the rest up, and surely we can retain Morris twins.

You keep saying we have to have money there is fucking none!! We won’t be retaining the Morris brothers our cap is fucked mate fucked . Nothing to do with the media beat up , player managers have been told not to bother shopping players to us for a good reason. Same shit was dribbled when we got busted for the salary cap ... media doesn’t know ... salaries are confidential blah blah ...

 

[liljohny]

Dib thought he could do what Politis does - offload good players for better players which is what the roosters do when someone better comes along.

The issue is we're trying to offload shit players who no-one wants.

And sign Tedesco!

 

[Trafford10]

At least 4 of the remaining 9 (Morris twins - Eastwood excluded) will not even get $150k.

For players 1 to 26 minimum wage is $100k in 2018 and increases at $5,000 p.a until 2022.
For players 27 to 30 minimum wage is $70k in 2018 and increases at $2,500 p.a until 2022.

The media is making it out like we've got a stack of 1st graders off contract.
The only 3 players worth consideration are Martin,JMK and perhaps Lewis.The 1st two will be happy they are getting a 1st grade opportunity and wouldn't push their luck and screw up their career.
Priest still needs to turn his career around before other clubs will be interested.
I doubt we'll be competing with other clubs for Cleeland,Frawley,Woolford,Fine and Cerruto.
Burr and Carr might make 1st tier replacing 2 players from the 5 players listed above.But they will only be players 27 to 30 worth $72500 each in 2019.
And unless Frawley finds an ancient Juju plant and suddenly turns into another JT,I think he'll be peeling oranges at 'Terry Lamb park' next year.

Spot on about the new minimum salary from 2018.
As soon as I read the $85,000 figure one knew the story was made up.

 

[Mike_B]

You keep saying we have to have money there is fucking none!! We won’t be retaining the Morris brothers our cap is fucked mate fucked . Nothing to do with the media beat up , player managers have been told not to bother shopping players to us for a good reason. Same shit was dribbled when we got busted for the salary cap ... media doesn’t know ... salaries are confidential blah blah ...

Exactly. Prepare for the worst boys. It’s coming.

 

[Novdoggie]

Today's Telegraph says that the Dogs were showing interest in Josh Mansour. What does that tell you? He most likely will stay at Panthers but we are not in dire straits with our cap once we release off contracted players.

 

[Mr Invisible]

You keep saying we have to have money there is fucking none!! We won’t be retaining the Morris brothers our cap is fucked mate fucked . Nothing to do with the media beat up , player managers have been told not to bother shopping players to us for a good reason. Same shit was dribbled when we got busted for the salary cap ... media doesn’t know ... salaries are confidential blah blah ...

So the signing of Cogger ....?
The dropping of Graham and Kasiano payments (which are rumoured over $1.5 million in total)?

That means nothing to you?

Maybe Player Managers have been told not to bother shopping us players because the club does not want to be used as a bargaining tool. If the club wants that player THEY will approach the manager, not the other way around.

 

[Mr Invisible]

Today's Telegraph says that the Dogs were showing interest in Josh Mansour. What does that tell you? He most likely will stay at Panthers but we are not in dire straits with our cap once we release off contracted players.

Dean Richie is saying Roosters, Eels, Bulldogs, Tigers for Mansour.

Gould has admitted Panthers can't match money offered by other teams.

 

[D- voice]

Yes we will maybe 1 or 2 good contracted players. It’s a must, but it’s not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I’d be happy to release Foran, I like him, I think he needs a good halfback next to him for him to excel but he is no where near good enough to be on the money he’s reportedly on. His body is shot. Don’t know how he’s going to last 3 years. The old administration paid way over for some players.

By the way, does anybody have a list of those 14 supposedly off contract at the end of the year?

So let’s start:

1.Bmoz
2.Jmoz
3.Eastwood

Who are the rest?

Hasler Controlled who comes and who goes and who gets what,
And Raelene Said Yes Yes Yes !!!

 

[dogwhisperer]

So the signing of Cogger ....?
The dropping of Graham and Kasiano payments (which are rumoured over $1.5 million in total)?

That means nothing to you?

Maybe Player Managers have been told not to bother shopping us players because the club does not want to be used as a bargaining tool. If the club wants that player THEY will approach the manager, not the other way around.

I’m not in the inner circle at the club but yes this is the vibe I’m getting. I think this new board and administration is way smarter than people think. Besides, we can’t judge them on anything they are doing at the moment, they have been doing everything right IMO. It’s time we took control of outside influences. I’m sure the rewards will come.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Exactly. Prepare for the worst boys. It’s coming.

Just like the Y2K bug lol

 

[diddly]

My understanding, and it may be wrong, is that the club have 16 players signed for next year and have committed all but $800 000 of their cap to those 16 players, meaning they only have that $800k to spend on the other 14 players yet to be signed.
If the club can move on contracted players such as Tolman, Lichaa, Elliot, Fualalo, Montoya, Holland, Brown they still need to have cap space for 21 players -With exception of Tolman and Brown ESL looks to be their best bet.
Apparently a clearer picture will be presented at a members meeting in the next week or so.
Its not a good position to be in BUT it is not as if the side is, or has been, playing well - so new blood - youth n speed - might improve things.
See that Kalache and Harper have been named as reserves for ISP team - positive signs.

 

[silva]

surely the club hasn't fuked up this bad..they still haven't confirmed anything. piss poor from the club this is becoming embarrassing

 

[Mitch Connor]

My understanding, and it may be wrong, is that the club have 16 players signed for next year and have committed all but $800 000 of their cap to those 16 players, meaning they only have that $800k to spend on the other 14 players yet to be signed.
If the club can move on contracted players such as Tolman, Lichaa, Elliot, Fualalo, Montoya, Holland, Brown they still need to have cap space for 21 players -With exception of Tolman and Brown ESL looks to be their best bet.
Apparently a clearer picture will be presented at a members meeting in the next week or so.
Its not a good position to be in BUT it is not as if the side is, or has been, playing well - so new blood - youth n speed - might improve things.
See that Kalache and Harper have been named as reserves for ISP team - positive signs.

Is the minimum wage for a top 30 player $100,000 now?

$800k spread between 14 players doesn’t work obviously so the only way we can have a complete squad next season is to lose Wood, Morris x 2, Tolman, Lichaa, Eastwood, and replace them with bottom dollar guys from within or outside.

Salesi Funaki would be a nice replacement for Eastwood.

 

[diddly]

Is the minimum wage for a top 30 player $100,000 now?

$800k spread between 14 players doesn’t work obviously so the only way we can have a complete squad next season is to lose Wood, Morris x 2, Tolman, Lichaa, Eastwood, and replace them with bottom dollar guys from within or outside.

Salesi Funaki would be a nice replacement for Eastwood.

If the reports are correct losing Morris (2) and Eastwood makes no difference as they are not on contract next year.
For it to work some of the 16 players on contract for 2019 need to be moved on and replaced by players on significantly less.
Another way of looking at it is 16 players are using up about 8.5million of the cap.
If those players were quality we wouldn't be second last!

 

[Dogsarnthavingaparty]

Mbye is not worth shitting on we have four great players trying that fucking it the rest r fucking usless

Mbye, eastwood ,both wingers, most forwards , dummy half, half ,5eight ,fullback, fucking hopless ffm awesome morris brothers r trying hard jackson trying hard
Foran useless open ya fucking eyes dogs board give some younger guys a crack whats the worst that can happen we win a game probably fucken soft board and players wake up pissed off

 

[froggy]

Has anyone heard from Michael Hill? Not only on this issue but on just about anything?

He has been there over six months and I have not seen one press interview with him.

The club needs to understand that we won't continue buying memberships blindly while Rome burns down. The least they can do is put out a statement to either slam the rumours or give us an update on their plan of action. They are obviously working on the no news is good news theory.

I am so confused on how we will still be in cap trouble next year even allowing for releasing Kasiano, Graham, Abbey, and not resigning Reynolds, the Morris twins and Eastwood. What if those players weren't released? What if they dug their heels in and stayed? We'd be over the cap by 2 million?

It is the biggest sporting mismanagement in the history of Australian sport. Dib, Castle and Hasler should never be allowed to hold any office in the country again. How Castle got the Union gig I do not know. How fukked are they.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Has anyone heard from Michael Hill? Not only on this issue but on just about anything?

He has been there over six months and I have not seen one press interview with him.

The club needs to understand that we won't continue buying memberships blindly while Rome burns down. The least they can do is put out a statement to either slam the rumours or give us an update on their plan of action. They are obviously working on the no news is good news theory.

I am so confused on how we will still be in cap trouble next year even allowing for releasing Kasiano, Graham, Abbey, and not resigning Reynolds, the Morris twins and Eastwood. What if those players weren't released? What if they dug their heels in and stayed? We'd be over the cap by 2 million?

It is the biggest sporting mismanagement in the history of Australian sport. Dib, Castle and Hasler should never be allowed to hold any office in the country again. How Castle got the Union gig I do not know. How fukked are they.