Voice referendum

What will you be voting?

  • Yes

  • No


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Hacky McAxe

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No chance.
Not only that, but when they fail to address the problems, they're accountable to no one.
All I can see coming from this, is corruption and waste. The better resourced Indigenous communities will form lobby groups and monopolise the Voice. They will become even better resourced, while the poorer communities continue to suffer.
Maybe I've worked for the Government for too long, but I can see it coming a mile off.
I can understand where you're coming from as I have worked for government, and with governments, and I know how bad it is.

But the accountable part isn't true. Part of the details in the Bill is that the Voice must be both completely transparent and fully accountable. It also requires representation from remote communities.

Not saying corruption won't happen. It always does. But the government is putting in every measure to minimise the chance of corruption.
 

Hacky McAxe

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I actually think you innately want to vote NO now but don’t want to back down from the team.
I actually think that you innately want to stop trolling, but you can't back down from the meme personas you have created.
 

Nasheed

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More power to government is tyranny.
Those that grew up overseas will know not to be naive
And I d this voice is so good they can still do it just not make it permanent
 

Nate DAWG

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Looks like the referendum will result in a no result. Question for those championing the no cause, what happens next? It’s not like there will be less funding towards Aboriginal issues. Just the continuation of non Aboriginal people leading decisions on where it should go.
 

Doogie

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Looks like the referendum will result in a no result. Question for those championing the no cause, what happens next? It’s not like there will be less funding towards Aboriginal issues. Just the continuation of non Aboriginal people leading decisions on where it should go.
The opposition has played spoiler and unfortunately we live in a society where spoiler works. Probably lots of blame game from both sides and a further splitting of first nations leadership from main stream society. And as you say, nothing changes at ground level.

Think also that many first nations, where they have some sort of power through native title etc., will be less favourable towards working with companies to get outcomes.

Of course, if all the No advocates are right about nobody from first nations actually wanting it then I expect parties and celebrations. After all, if they didn't want change there mustn't be a problem right?
 

Nasheed

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The opposition has played spoiler and unfortunately we live in a society where spoiler works. Probably lots of blame game from both sides and a further splitting of first nations leadership from main stream society. And as you say, nothing changes at ground level.

Think also that many first nations, where they have some sort of power through native title etc., will be less favourable towards working with companies to get outcomes.

Of course, if all the No advocates are right about nobody from first nations actually wanting it then I expect parties and celebrations. After all, if they didn't want change there mustn't be a problem right?
Ok just remember.
If the YES vote wins as you wish…..
What is going to happen when an Aboriginal couple are driving down your street and decide they like the architecture and size of your house and want to exercise their legal Voice to some of their land rights’.
They won’t care in the slightest if you’re white, Azn, Tongan, Filipino or if you voted yes or no.
Hope it doesn’t happen and you don’t find out the hard way but someone will.
 

Doogie

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Ok just remember.
If the YES vote wins as you wish…..
What is going to happen when an Aboriginal couple are driving down your street and decide they like the architecture and size of your house and want to exercise their legal Voice to some of their land rights’.
They won’t care in the slightest if you’re white, Azn, Tongan, Filipino or if you voted yes or no.
Hope it doesn’t happen and you don’t find out the hard way but someone will.
Normally I'd explain how native title actually works. No point with you.

You'll be in Lebanon shortly.
 

Nasheed

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Normally I'd explain how native title actually works. No point with you.

You'll be in Lebanon shortly.
I am still years away from Lebanon.
And I don’t think I will be the only one moving to Lebanon if this gets up.
 

Nate DAWG

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Ok just remember.
If the YES vote wins as you wish…..
What is going to happen when an Aboriginal couple are driving down your street and decide they like the architecture and size of your house and want to exercise their legal Voice to some of their land rights’.
They won’t care in the slightest if you’re white, Azn, Tongan, Filipino or if you voted yes or no.
Hope it doesn’t happen and you don’t find out the hard way but someone will.
Sometimes it better to say nothing bro
 

Rodzilla

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Looks like the referendum will result in a no result. Question for those championing the no cause, what happens next? It’s not like there will be less funding towards Aboriginal issues. Just the continuation of non Aboriginal people leading decisions on where it should go.
are aboriginal people allowed to vote?
 

SexBomb

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Firstly, your opening analogy sucks - Aboriginals are not horses, they are human beings.

If you want a mature debate, you might want to start by not dehumanising Aboriginals and using blatantly disrespectful terminology like “second nations”. You’re only signposting your own agenda. You’re making it clear you don’t like or have respect for Aboriginal people given the reductionist language you’re using. People who are sincere about wanting to help other groups of humans don’t talk down about them like you are. They speak with compassion. Compassion is a big part of the equation when it comes to trying to rebuild the collective self esteem of a people who have been dispossessed of their land and culture and treated like/ spoken about as if they were second class citizens for more than two centuries.

You might also want to read up more on the stolen generation and the history behind it, because the narrative that most of those children were “saved” from abusive homes is inaccurate.

You have still not given one compelling argument as to how the Voice would harm the rest of the population. I mean, you’re comparing an advisory board to the wider population footing the bill so the richest people in society can get tax breaks? Seriously?
Thanks Captain Obvious.
Without you, no one would have realised Aboriginal Australians are not horses! FFS Ute, really? :/
How about addressing the point and not the medium utilised to try and convey said point in a manner someone who's widely acknowledged as stubborn and argumentative, might actually comprehend?

That unfortunately is a perceived side effect when seeking to simplify concepts most adults and even a wide range of kids comprehend.
You can assert whatever you like though, as most, inclusive myself, see Aboriginals as humans, as equals, so kindly shove that false argument where it belongs.

Can you absolutely disprove there was a human race here before the Aboriginal people we know, see as equals, and own as a part of what makes us all Australian?
Are you willing to go out on a limb and discriminate against the original people of this land by disowning them from it?
Have you forgotten there was a time when the land masses were largely a single continent, so there was no requirement for land bridges for immigration?

Talking possibilities, is talking down?
Yet talking fantasy land made-up bullshit is not?

People who are sincere call a spade, a spade!
They refuse to buy into bullshit talk to appease emotional garbage.

You are making assumptions and utilising them to attack/discredit the messenger, as the points made are beyond your ability to discount.
I have listened to the stories of my people who have experienced outback communities and left angered at the wastage by both the government and the aboriginal people's own tribal leaders.
The manner tribal leaders and once again the government have addressed behavioural issues in this modern society also leaves me to this day at a point I wish for the ability to ring heads together until they get it, their selfish approaches are not working for the people or the country.
We vs you and I.
To move forward, there can not be you and I, only we!
You have no idea from the looks of your reply, where I stand and why I stand here.
You might want to get your head out of a book and actually get out into these communities and talk to their people, seeing first-hand the hardship they face daily
Hardships that spawn from evolutionary differences and the resources needed to enable a race to evolve from a tribal, into a modern global society.

Blaming a current generation for the actions of previous generations is not a productive mechanism towards greater compassion and support towards building the esteem of a race's people.
You still fail to comprehend how the current approach only ensures further division between 97% of the population and the Aboriginal people?
 

SexBomb

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There are many living victims of the stolen generations who will tell you first hand about the happy upbringings they had before the government came and took them away. I have spoken to some in my line of work.

There are some absolute horror stories out there, if you’re actually willing to listen to people who went through this shit…think Kids having to go hide in quarries for fear of being taken away from their parents…

But naturally, you will just dismiss these first hand stories, just as you do the historical accounts and facts that are presented you, all the while accepting the version of events which help you sleep at night and calling yourself a critical thinker.

But sure, no agenda on your part… you’re all about finding practical solutions.
Therein lies the difference between us, I accept that.
You do not accept there are many living victims of abuse who are thankful for being removed, provided an education, stable household, diet, medical treatment, and society, and supported in their rehabilitation from the abuses they suffered.
Mistakes are always going to be made, and if we look back, rather than forth, we will tend to focus on mistakes, rather than the positives realised.

Now how do you dismiss this?
How do you dismiss me agreeing there no doubt were horror stories, there were mistakes made?
How will you go in addressing there were horror stories from both damned sides and we've all made mistakes?
Or are you the second coming and not capable of making mistakes?
 

SexBomb

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I don’t think anyone here has argued everyone should speak in favour of it. I have agreed to disagree with a no voter on here and had nothing but respectful exchanges. What I can’t cop is reductionist language that treats Aboriginal people as second class citizens, because that sort of rhetoric has been an huge part of the problem from day one and only widens the gap. Wherever we stand on this referendum, we all want to see the gap closed, right? Or am I being presumptuous?
Once again, largely your biased perception.

I, unlike you, do not want to see a gap at all!
I idealistically envision a future for us/we, not you/me!
This goes to the extent I would even change the flag to one that represents all of us, represents the multicultural country we now are.
One that represents Aussie battlers who stick their noses up to aristocracy, elitism, and a minority controlling the majority.
 

SexBomb

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If we demanded every detail to be placed on the table before we vote for or against something, politicians would never get anything done.

There’s more than enough detail on the table to show this referendum is not the constitutional Trojan horse some make it out to be, imo.

If you have a differing view, fair enough. Please just try to be respectful in the way you communicate your viewpoint.
Why are you enabling politicians and bureaucrats the easy way out?
Why are you enabling lazy legislation?
Bring forth proposed constitutional changes in stone, including all of their backing details, so we know what it is and can have confidence that a few chosen words change post-vote change the scope of what it is and is not representative of.
Otherwise, piss off back to Canberra and do it right.
Do you see the same lazy attitude in the private sector? Hell no!
Why? Because it could bankrupt a company!
It could see the executives face imprisonment.

Do it once, do it right.
 

SexBomb

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Fair comments. But I'll put the other argument in the table. The current system isnt working. This is a different spin. Might work and might not.
So if one system has not worked, what is going to guarantee another system, a system more ingrained, will?
And if this new system does not work, what system is in place to remove it?
What are the measurable values to determine this?
EDIT - typo
 
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SexBomb

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But it's a constitutional amendment that allows for groups to be treated differently, and it's used to treat groups differently.
Why do we want to treat people we now legally and constitutionally recognise and see as equals, as different?
 
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