Voice referendum

[TwinTurbo]

Oh come on Wendy !

Assuming that the Yes vote translates to Labor votes is a bridge too far!
Two-party preferred by that logic should see the Conservatives running the show with a 20% gap, which is not the case.

Preferences spoil that argument, the looney left minority parties all preference Labor, especially the Greens.

Always a Bulldog

 

[wendog33]

Preferences spoil that argument, the looney left minority parties all preference Labor, especially the Greens.

Always a Bulldog

Well we can see from the last election, all it takes is low 30's to win, plus the Liberal vote is becoming more fractured as time goes on and they get more conservative and more voters find they are less able to relate to the party of their founder....so I read on LNP sites

There are a lot of party members who disagree with where they are headed....

 

[Flanagun]

Prior to issuing the writ you can call off a referendum. Writ was issued September 11.
By then everyone knew it was going to fail.


If they proposed recognition inshrined in the constitution and a voice legislated by government, it would likely have received bi-partisan support.


It’s hard to see otherwise, when he immediately blamed others when it failed.


I have read it. there’s nothing wrong with the statement.
it’s the governments insistence that it’s gospel and must be adhered explicitly that was the failing.
perhaps the saddest outcome of the result is that the Uluru Statement has been stained in the eyes of some.


Albo’s speech was as self aggrandizing as Duttons. If you couldn’t see that, you’re not being honest.

1. And what do you think the response would have been if he had called it off so close to the day, with all the money, time and resources that had already been spent to promote it up to that point? He would have been savaged by both critics and supporters of the Voice if he had aborted at that point. It would have been nothing less than political suicide. By that point he was well and truly committed, regardless of the fact there was technically a way out.

2. Enshrined recognition and a legislated Voice is not what was wanted. Why would he appease those who only would have labelled him weak for abandoning his original vision in order to deliver something that wasn’t desired, or requested?

3. I disagree. I think he accepted the will of the people, and as far as I’m concerned, he is not exactly wrong in suggesting the No campaign acted in bad faith by pushing contradictory arguments and calling the Voice divisive while simultaneously going out of their way to make it as divisive an issue as possible. He could have taken some ownership of the shortcomings of the yes campaign, but seriously, what type of politician does that?

4. The government didn’t treat the statement as gospel. According to the statement, the Voice was only one step toward the end game of treaty, and Albo repeatedly said he wouldn’t go down that road. Attempting to offer at least part of what was being requested was a compromise, in itself. Diluting if further to appease critics would have been seen as an insult.

5. We obviously watched different speeches. There is always going to be a degree of buck passing in any political speech… but I saw an air of humility and sincerity which just wasn’t present in Dutton’s speech. All Dutton wanted to do was attack the PM. It was abundantly clear to me the issue of the Voice itself was very much secondary to him.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Legit said it as bait and the guy who quotes every single one of my posts was on to it in a jiffy

I'm guessing you mean Dinkum, 'cause I quote barely any of your posts.

 

[Flanagun]

Thank you for that recognition.
It installs some hope within me, that this referendum was not just a waste of time and money, and that in time, with the requisite hard work to amend it, this ideal will be realised, and the benefits the vast majority seek towards Aboriginal Australians will be realised.
There are far too many desiring real improvement for it not to!

All good, Fam. I’m happy to agree to disagree with people, as long as it is respectful and I believe they are sincere about wanting to find solutions.

 

[Blue_boost]

Early this week, like in TOPGUN, I was summoned to come in and pick to pieces the ridiculous yes campaign.. a special ops of sorts.. also arriving concurrently nasheed and a few other problem solvers.

But it proved easier than I thought with the yes campaign tripping over their own feet, scoring own goals and driving their own supporters away with their contradictions, absurd behaviour and lack of clarity.

I was taken away from keeping renters, fat people and my neighbours accountable.. but with this crushing victory, we obliterated the yes campaign, I fulfilled a Duty to this great country to help keep the buffoons out.

as I depart, I wish to thank the fellow no supporters who helped drive the imbeciles back and out in the rough where they belong.

they ran and they lost

 

[Doogie]

All media are sewer to a point - but even MSM with obvious leanings like ABC/Left and Sky/Right are regulated and have standards to abide by. It’s the Farcebooks, Instashams and Twatters I’m mostly referring to that seemingly have no requirement (or desire) to stop hate, fear and lies. And people still flock to it - absolutely baffles me and have zero interest in it.

Doogs you were the one who said earlier in this thread that you can’t have it both ways yet now you’re trying it on. Yes, irrespective whether it’s social or other policy and backflip is a backflip. They all do it, you know it and you can’t just conveniently say Dutton backflipped when your team does it also but apparently it’s doubly bad because it’s social policy? Please.

Equally you’re saying that Labor don’t play up to their donors? Really? How would they survive otherwise? All political parties rely on cash. Hardly a newsflash.

Good luck SJW-ing. Stay out of trouble.

Not arrested - fairly good rally tbf. No dickheads.

So what standards do journalists have to abide by? Legal action and thats about it these days. I go to ABC and think its a bit woke sometimes. I go to Sky and most is a load of bullshit. Murdoch news is apparently propaganda in the US but here its... leaning right?

As for the Social Media - we agree on that. And its been widely reported that Fair Australia by far had the biggest social media penetration. Fair Australia, funded 100% by Advance Front and Centre. Who list as one of their many 'achievements', 'we stood up to the climate commies'. Are people wanting climate action communists? Want the latest goldie? Price claiming that election corruption happened in remote NT communities and wants action against the AEC. Why? Because they almost universally voted Yes. AEC came out and made it clear that all rules were followed and maybe the No vote would have had better results if they actually turned up or campaigned there. But they didn't. Lol.

How exactly am I having it both ways? This is the referendum thread. Thats all I'm talking about. Support for the Voice dipped when Dutton flipped. Thats a fact. Dutton flipped 4 days after Asten. Fact. Duttons future after Asten was widely reported. Fact. Dutton voted yes for the referendum to occur. Fact. Dutton added reasons for voting No as the campaign went on. Fact. The 'details' that justified the flip were the same in Nov 22 as they are today. Yet it was 6 months later that Dutton flipped. Fact. If I'm wrong on any of this, feel free to point that out.

I have to laugh though. Isn't there a thread from your mate called what about Scomo? Should we rename this what about Labor?

And yes, no doubt energy lobbying and funding had a big say in our delays for climate change actions. This was a referendum. Labor got money from some fund donors, yet the messaging was the same before and after. Libs however - the messaging was straight out of Advances playbook (which is remarkably similar to the Murdoch messaging). And that messaging started when Dutton flipped. Chicken or Egg? Take your pick.

Looks like the yes vote will stay at around 40% across the country (up and down pending which state). If Dutton didn't flip for whatever reason, this probably gets up. So the reasons why he flipped becomes important.

 

[Doogie]

It saddens me to see the race card played by the Yes camp as the response to losing this referendum.

Didn't sadden you to see all the racist comments on this thread prior to the vote? Ok.

 

[Doogie]

So why proceed? He knows the history. He should’ve worked with the libs for an option that they could both get behind.
he arrogantly chose to attempt to create history and then complained when it blew up in his face.

U know Dutton voted Yes for the referendum as did most of the Liberals right? U know this came from the Uluru Statement which was a Liberal idea right? Or maybe you didn't.

 

[Doogie]

I thought the misinformation would have stopped after the NO vote won

Election Promise Tracker | RMIT ABC Fact Check

www.abc.net.au

Albo made 66 promises. So far he has only delivered 19.

20 now. He held the Voice referendum.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Well we can see from the last election, all it takes is low 30's to win, plus the Liberal vote is becoming more fractured as time goes on and they get more conservative and more voters find they are less able to relate to the party of their founder....so I read on LNP sites

There are a lot of party members who disagree with where they are headed....

A quick look at the election result yesterday in NZ indicates that the drift to being “Labor Light” is not the right (sic) direction for the Liberal Party here. No matter how far Liberal policies shift to the left it will never be far enough.

The electorate needs to be reminded of the fundamental liberal ideals of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, the right to due process and equality under the law. What is widely accepted as a common foundation of liberalism.

Always a Bulldog

 

[Flanagun]

It saddens me to see the race card played by the Yes camp as the response to losing this referendum.

Seriously, Fam. You trawl through the comments here, online and even some of the core arguments promoted by the No side and tell me racism didn’t play a role in this referendum. It’s not a card, as I see it. It’s a basic truth. And no, that doesn’t mean I think everyone who voted no is racist.

 

[TwinTurbo]

U know Dutton voted Yes for the referendum as did most of the Liberals right? U know this came from the Uluru Statement which was a Liberal idea right? Or maybe you didn't.

So what, what may have been a good idea initially worth supporting quickly degenerated into motherhood statements with no substance. Dutton saw through it and so did the electorate, proven by the progressive slump in support from more that 60% to less than 40%. Why did that happen, simply because even a good idea doesn’t succeed when all it is a thought bubble lacking anything supporting it.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Doogie]

So what, what may have been a good idea initially worth supporting quickly degenerated into motherhood statements with no substance. Dutton saw through it and so did the electorate, proven by the progressive slump in support from more that 60% to less than 40%. Why did that happen, simply because even a good idea doesn’t succeed when all it is a thought bubble lacking anything supporting it.


Always a Bulldog

You been reading this thread at all? Doesn't seem like it if you are asking the question.

 

[Flanagun]

So what, what may have been a good idea initially worth supporting quickly degenerated into motherhood statements with no substance. Dutton saw through it and so did the electorate, proven by the progressive slump in support from more that 60% to less than 40%. Why did that happen, simply because even a good idea doesn’t succeed when all it is a thought bubble lacking anything supporting it.


Always a Bulldog

Not really true… history shows it’s much harder to sell a referendum than spoil one…and recent history also shows the Liberals are much less willing than Labor to support bipartisan solutions.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

A quick look at the election result yesterday in NZ indicates that the drift to being “Labor Light” is not the right (sic) direction for the Liberal Party here. No matter how far Liberal policies shift to the left it will never be far enough.

The electorate needs to be reminded of the fundamental liberal ideals of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, the separation of church and state, the right to due process and equality under the law. What is widely accepted as a common foundation of liberalism.

Always a Bulldog

I personally think that the best thing for society would be if both sides moved closer to the centre. Liberals become more moderate, Labor become less Commie. Nats and Greens still exist to provide important context from the hard right and hard left, but the main parties be more moderate.

But that's not good for politics. What's good for winning votes is for Labor to lean harder left and Liberals to lean harder right.

Division wins votes. That's why the US have broken record vote ratios since Trump ran for office. Conflict drives passion and that leads to votes.

And that's also why we will never have a Utopia.

 

[Doogie]

I personally think that the best thing for society would be if both sides moved closer to the centre. Liberals become more moderate, Labor become less Commie. Nats and Greens still exist to provide important context from the hard right and hard left, but the main parties be more moderate.

But that's not good for politics. What's good for winning votes is for Labor to lean harder left and Liberals to lean harder right.

Division wins votes. That's why the US have broken record vote ratios since Trump ran for office. Conflict drives passion and that leads to votes.

And that's also why we will never have a Utopia.

Commie? Now theres the red rag to the bull.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Seriously, Fam. You trawl through the comments here, online and even done of the core arguments promoted by the No side and tell me racism didn’t play a role in this referendum. It’s not a card, as I see it. It’s a joke truth. And no, that doesn’t mean I think everyone who voted no is racist.

I personally believe that the majority that voted No are not racist. But I think that racism drove a lot of the misinformation that encouraged people to vote NO. The official No campaign was run by Advance Australia who have a history of supporting racist organisations, and they pushed so much disinformation.

But I don't think it was people just being racist. I think most of it was a combination of:

- many believing the misinformation

- Labor making a mess educating people about the Voice

- some people had actual legitimate concerns

Personally in my area though, it was heavily driven by racism. But I live in an area where you're called crazy if you don't believe that the government is seeding the clouds to drown us all.

 

[belmore_utd]

I never said you said those things. But you did compare the Voice to Sharia Law, which is pretty damn absurd in its own right… and you seem to have come on here with the sole purpose of bagging lefties, as usual. It’s pretty clear you’re not here to argue in good faith.

Other people have referred to Indigenous people as Second Nations and supported comparisons to apartheid on this very thread, by the way. To me this proves racism was a motivator for at least a percentage of the people who voted no. I never said it was a motivator for all… or even most.

I never accused you of racism personally, either. I just think you’re only here to share memes and mock.

If you’ll read through the comments, it should be pretty obvious that the majority of the mocking and derision is coming from the No side. If I had a vote for every time I’ve been called a moron, imbecile or something similar on here, yes would have won the majority vote in NSW, tbh.

I can tolerate differing opinions just fine, I have had respectful debates with plenty of No voters, both on this thread and outside of the forum. Having said that, my tolerance threshold is pretty low for people who want to spout complete bullshit, and for those who don’t really care about indigenous people and just want to turn this thread into a pissing contest.

Flog off Flanno. Thats a whole lot of diatribe I dont have the time nor the want to unpack.
You claim to want a respectful debate but when I tell you that you misinterpreted what I said, you continue on the same path and are adamant that I compared sharia law to the voice. When I clearly said it as an example of tolerance, acceptance and boundaries with respect to Muslims

Do you know why you do that? I do. It's because you're a lefty swine and can't help but feed your face with the moral high ground even when it's not yours to eat. So Flog off flanno with your deflective whataboutisms. Hop off that high horse and ingratiate yourself with the common pronoun where we accept we are equally as shit human beings as each other and treat each other such.

 

[Mr 95%]

Early this week, like in TOPGUN, I was summoned to come in and pick to pieces the ridiculous yes campaign.. a special ops of sorts.. also arriving concurrently nasheed and a few other problem solvers.

But it proved easier than I thought with the yes campaign tripping over their own feet, scoring own goals and driving their own supporters away with their contradictions, absurd behaviour and lack of clarity.

I was taken away from keeping renters, fat people and my neighbours accountable.. but with this crushing victory, we obliterated the yes campaign, I fulfilled a Duty to this great country to help keep the buffoons out.

as I depart, I wish to thank the fellow no supporters who helped drive the imbeciles back and out in the rough where they belong.

they ran and they lost