The full extent and repercussions of Canterbury’s salary cap hell

[Craystar]

Lapse Morris boys Eastwood contracts and Kas and Graham expires too.

If we are in that much of a mess then sell off Woods and Klemmer which clubs would surely take even Mbye

Start again and just trust the process with youth

Yeah lets sell off Klemmer & Woods and leave Foran there.

Smashing advice

 

[LSD]

Even selling players, you’d be paying half a salary like Kas, Graham, probably Abbey and others.

 

[Oatley Dog]

If we don't need to recruit anyone and simply play with what we have (like this year) then we are cap compliant (unless we are over now).

Remember that the NRL knows what every teams cap already is (now and moving forwards).

They brought in new rules about 1-2 years ago, that they will not sign off on a contract if the club will be over the cap in that period. That includes moving forwards. In other words if the NRL approved the contracts at the time they were signed with the club, they did so knowing that we would be under the cap (backdated or otherwise), because the NRL would know that's how we intended to calculate our cap moving forwards.

If the NRL has approved those contracts, they have done so acknowledging either we are under the cap, or (the NRL) basing their own numbers on a higher cap (which isn't our fault).

Sometimes I wonder what goes through your head. How could the NRL possibly make a calculation about the cap space for next year for a club when a lot of the players were signed to contracts two years before the previous agreement expired? All the club has to do is provide a plan on how they can be cap compliant. No doubt our plan included a number of players retiring and/or moving on and that hasn't happened.

We banked everything 2 or 3 years ago on winning a comp in the following couple of years and we came up empty. Old blokes winning the comp are more inclined to retire or go to UK. It didn't happen and now we are stuck where we are. You might recall David Smith spruiking about a possible $13m cap around the time we would've been negotiating a lot of the bigger players contracts and guess what - it came in at $9.4m. We rolled the dice and shot snake eyes. We're not the only club to have SC problems - it's just that we have probably the biggest problems currently.

There is no doubt the reason for us exceeding the cap by so much is due to in some part the indicators early on from the NRL about the projected new Cap size but that doesn't excuse our leadership from doing what they did. They signed both Foran and Woods knowing full well the $13m was a pipe dream and that $10m was looking more and more less likely.

 

[chisdog]

Unlike others, I wish Des coaches again in the NRL. Hope he goes to Parramatta,Brisbane or Roosters...

Unfortunately the latter 2 don't have a salary cap

 

[chisdog]

I can’t believe anyone is trying to blame the NRL! This mess is all on previous administration and coaches gambling on backended deals.

It is their fault, partially. A professional organisation would have their salary cap in place at least 3 years in advance so clubs know what to work towards & not leave it until the last minute when clubs have all done their contracts.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Yeah lets sell off Klemmer & Woods and leave Foran there.

Smashing advice

They are more likely to sell numb nuts

 

[KiwiDog7]

Even selling players, you’d be paying half a salary like Kas, Graham, probably Abbey and others.

A problem halved is a problem shared

 

[KiwiDog7]

If we were that much in salary cap shit then why did we go buy Woods and Foran and apparently all but had Tedesco?

 

[bells76]

If we were that much in salary cap shit then why did we go buy Woods and Foran and apparently all but had Tedesco?

At the time fat Ray thought he had the numbers and power to increase the cap

 

[Spoonman84]

It is their fault, partially. A professional organisation would have their salary cap in place at least 3 years in advance so clubs know what to work towards & not leave it until the last minute when clubs have all done their contracts.

I think we would have been in trouble regardless of the cap amount. It’s not a mistake or anyone else’s fault this was all deliberate from the club to try and win a comp.

 

[Mike_B]

We could lose all off contract players plus any or all of Jackson, Klemmer, RFM and Woods (only players any club would want). Maybe even Foran and Mbye.

So pretty much our team next year could look something like this...

1) Bergamin
2) Montoya
3) Holland
4) Hopoate
5) Olive
6) Nu Brown
7) Cogger
8) Tolman
9) Lichha
10) Fualalo
11) Toomaga
12) Ogden
13) Elliot

14) Tualau
15) Okunbor
16) Miller
17) Garlick

Jeez....

 

[Spoonman84]

We could lose all off contract players plus any or all of Jackson, Klemmer, RFM and Woods (only players any club would want). Maybe even Foran and Mbye.

So pretty much our team next year could look something like this...

1) Bergamin
2) Montoya
3) Holland
4) Hopoate
5) Olive
6) Nu Brown
7) Cogger
8) Tolman
9) Lichha
10) Fualalo
11) Toomaga
12) Ogden
13) Elliot

14) Tualau
15) Okunbor
16) Miller
17) Garlick

Jeez....

The team would look nothing like that. We won’t lose 6 of the highest paid players. Releasing players doesn’t really fix anything because opposition clubs know our position and won’t pay their full amount so we will have even more dead money in the cap and we have to replace the player on top of that.

 

[Mr Invisible]

How could the NRL possibly make a calculation about the cap space for next year for a club when a lot of the players were signed to contracts two years before the previous agreement expired? All the club has to do is provide a plan on how they can be cap compliant. No doubt our plan included a number of players retiring and/or moving on and that hasn't happened.

My understanding is that it's more in depth than that, because the NRL got sick of clubs breaching the cap. That's why they will not approve a signature until a club proves they are complaint. That's why in the past clubs have had to move on players before they can sign a player who isn't even due at the club till the following season.

EXAMPLE:
NRL Salary Cap 2019: $10 million
NRL Salary Cap 2020: $10.1 million
NRL Salary Cap 2021: $10.2 million
NRL Salary Cap 2022: $10.5 million

Dogs: "Hey we'd like to sign Jim Smith on a $2 million contract over 4 years."
NRL: "Okay and how is that broken up"
Dogs: "Year 1 400, Year 2 400, Year 3 400, Year 4 800"
NRL: "No worries that's approved *punches into their system"

Dogs already have $9.5 million signed for all years.
2019: $9.9 million
2020: $9.9 million
2021: $9.9 million
2022: $10.3 million

Dogs: "Hey we'd like to sign John Doe on a $600,000 contract over 4 years."
NRL: "Okay and how is that broken up"
Dogs: "Year 1 100, Year 2 100, Year 3 100, Year 4 300"
NRL: "Sorry we can't register that, you are compliant in 2019, 2020, 2021, but not 2022"

 

[Mike_B]

The team would look nothing like that. We won’t lose 6 of the highest paid players. Releasing players doesn’t really fix anything because opposition clubs know our position and won’t pay their full amount so we will have even more dead money in the cap and we have to replace the player on top of that.

I’m exaggerating to make a point, which is we need to release players to sign players.

14 players off contract, that means we need 14 (say 13 minus Cogger) to put a 30 man squad together. 13 in to 800k doesn’t work.

To fill the squad we have to shed players who others will want to pick up (and most likely pay part of their salary).

In summary - we are screwed.

 

[Horny Wog]

If any of this is true than it is quiet evident that we do not possess any great TPA's like the Roosters, Groncos & Storm

 

[Deathspell]

Doesn't it seem odd how all these Journos report of our salary cap trouble except none of them can produce figures on who is getting paid what. At this stage it is just one journo feeding off another. FFS come out with the figures. Get a spread sheet out and show us who's on what next year and beyond. We all know that the Morris Twins and Eastwood are on combined estimates of 2.4 million this year and if they are not resigned thats a big reduction in player salary's for next year. Come on PK and Hooper. If you are reading this, get the facts in figures please. And if you cant get them. Fuck off!

On top of that $2400k you mentioned mate,there's Graham's money ($500k) + Salary cap increases of at least $200k minimum,probably more,the 11 other players which have to be on minimum wage of $100k at best,probably some are on bigger money.So even if we use the least possible money of:
$2400k + $500k + $200k + $1100k =4200k.

So they are trying to tell us,$4200k will not cover all backended contracts + 14 new players,some of which will bw on minimum wage.I don't believe these dudes will know if you're up them,fair dinkum.
There is no way they would have access to players contracts,third party agreements would probably prohibit that from happening.Just in case they are in agreement with other players from other clubs.It could put them in an embarrassing position and can cause conflict of interests especially if some consideration is required by the player.It could also cause problems if the money involved favor one player more then the other.

Do they know which contracts have third party agreements and which contract's back ended deals are impacted by third party agreements?
Do they know if any contracts have any bonus clauses?
Do they know who gets other Benefits like Tertiary education fees, approved traineeships, medical insurance costs, relocation/temporary accommodation costs that are not included in the cap but can be taken as salary sacrifice if approved by NRL?
Do they know who has vehicle allowances (five motor vehicles valued at $20,000 each,outside the salary cap) but can be taken as salary sacrifice.?
Which players are effected by Veteran and Developed Player Allowance which is $200k?
Details of the $300k paid by the NRL to the RLPA towards players' Retirement Account Contribution,which is on top of the $9.1m cap?
Details of $100k paid by the NRL to the RLPA towards their administration funding,which is on top of the $9.1m cap?

I doubt it brother.NRL contracts are not a few scribbles with 1 number,I know of a law firm that makes a living putting these contracts together.

 

[Novdoggie]

We could lose all off contract players plus any or all of Jackson, Klemmer, RFM and Woods (only players any club would want). Maybe even Foran and Mbye.

So pretty much our team next year could look something like this...

1) Bergamin
2) Montoya
3) Holland
4) Hopoate
5) Olive
6) Nu Brown
7) Cogger
8) Tolman
9) Lichha
10) Fualalo
11) Toomaga
12) Ogden
13) Elliot

14) Tualau
15) Okunbor
16) Miller
17) Garlick

Jeez....

No one has said we have to sell anyone. Once the off contract players are no longer on the books we are cap compliant. Sure if we want to enter the player market we have to sell those you mentioned but it would be crazy to do so as we have to build our team around certain experienced players and those you've mentioned are the ones we need to hold on to.

 

[Magilla]

So we clean them out and just automatically become a great team full of rookies. Then it will be Dean Pays fault because he doesn’t play Cleeland or one of the other reserve players. My god our fan base is so dumb.

Yep.

 

[Magilla]

Eastwood is on 800K this year and its his final year.. how does this affect us in 2019..

We have Morris brothers, and Graham & Perrett and Eastwood off our books in 2019 so I cant see how the situation is as dire as made out

Because the back ended deals continue...Mbye Klemm Tolman etc etc.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Lets just backend some more contracts, problem solved.