Tapped on the shoulder to prize pooch: Lewis's rise through Bulldogs ranks

[Horse]

Let’s remember he had Holland playing hooker off the bench

Yet weren't you one the blokes crying foul when Pay moved Holland from utility to centre at the expense of John Olive?

 

[KiwiDog7]

Yet weren't you one the blokes crying foul when Pay moved Holland from utility to centre at the expense of John Olive?

I was crying foul that Holland retianed his spot after a shocker v Raiders yet Olive got banished v Titans

Next

 

[cntrbry bnkstwn]

does it really matter how these 3 blokes got here, they're here now and for the first time in a long time it's exciting to watch dogs games now.
these boys have breathed much needed fresh air into the team, for me personally i couldn't give a fuck who's right or wrong, i'm just enjoying seeing the dogs move foward again.
there is so much improvement in this squad, it will take more time but the future is looking good imo

 

[Como Dog]

By the sounds of it Des dident have him in the top 30 , he said 1 year into a 2 and half year he was told , he was signed in 2016 meaning that one year was when Hasler was in charge not Pay

If it was Des then it makes sense 100%. Lewis has the ability to play what's in front of him and Des would've hated that.

 

[M4cca]

Wait ...So Pay didn’t want Lewis , then to make sure of that fact he makes him train and play reserve grade at Centre then with no other options debuts him and now he’s parading him to press conferences like he developed him like he knew all along he had a gun player

Haha

If he wasn't in the top 30 then why do you think that pay was deciding where georgallis played him??

 

[GDR]

Oh wow, that really counters my argument. Not.

They are facts , but you have sprinkled some facts amongst a lot of assumptions..

Have you ever thought of getting in to journalism? I think you'll be great at it.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

They are facts , but you have sprinkled some facts amongst a lot of assumptions..

Have you ever thought of getting in to journalism? I think you'll be great at it.

So it's false that Lewis wasn't in our 30? It's also false that JMK was promoted to our 30 ahead of Lewis? Is it also false that he wasn't viewed as a high priority halves option? How are these assumptions?

 

[Fully Sik Drop kick]

"I was on my own and I said 'stuff it, I'm going to train hard, develop my game and try and keep my head in the right place'.

Wow. What a great attitude . Definitely need to keep this guy. Very inspiring

 

[GDR]

So it's false that Lewis wasn't in our 30? It's also false that JMK was promoted to our 30 ahead of Lewis? Is it also false that he wasn't viewed as a high priority halves option? How are these assumptions?

No, they are the facts, but why were decisions made or who made decisions?... You have no idea about the finer details..

Who? it may well of been Pay?? But did a board member go rogue? (as has been the case for other instances) did Pay trust his assistants and lower grade coaches opinions too much ?? you cannot confirm any of these scenarios...

Why??? Did they have a bad attitude? .. Did they do what was asked of them?? .. did they train well .... did they turn up to training on time?? were they committed to the cause ...Can you answer these questions ??...

So yes some facts mixed into a agenda driven narrative

 

[CrittaMagic69]

No, they are the facts, but why were decisions made or who made decisions?... You have no idea about the finer details..

Who? it may well of Pay, did a board member go rogue? (as has been the case for other instances) did pay trust his assistants and lower grade coaches opinions too much ?? you cannot confirm any of these scenarios...

Why??? Did they have a bad attitude? .. did they do what was asked of them?? .. did they train well .... did they turn up to training on time?? were they committed to the cause ...Can you answer these questions ??...

So yes some facts mixed into a agenda driven narrative

Nor do you, yet you seem to go to great lengths to try and create some alternative scenario where it's someone else's fault and not the most obvious. Alot of these recent changes could have been made much earlier into the season, Pay was more than capable of making these calls yet didn't.

The one thing we do know is that JMK was Pay's first signing and we know he wanted him in the firstgrade side and promoted him accordingly. That could have been Lewis but it wasn't.

 

[CaptainJackson]

No, they are the facts, but why were decisions made or who made decisions?... You have no idea about the finer details..

Who? it may well of been Pay?? But did a board member go rogue? (as has been the case for other instances) did Pay trust his assistants and lower grade coaches opinions too much ?? you cannot confirm any of these scenarios...

Why??? Did they have a bad attitude? .. Did they do what was asked of them?? .. did they train well .... did they turn up to training on time?? were they committed to the cause ...Can you answer these questions ??...

So yes some facts mixed into a agenda driven narrative

The fact is pay is head coach and as head coach into a new club he has to determine the potential of ALL players in ALL grades to decide what his future is goingto be and to give feedback to the board or ceo of what he needs to make the team successful.

There's no way in hell I'll believe that a newly entered head coach wouldnt look at all his options in the reserve and simply take the word of the reserve coach.

 

[GDR]

Nor do you, yet you seem to go to great lengths to try and create some alternative scenario where it's someone else's fault and not the most obvious. Alot of these recent changes could have been made much earlier into the season, Pay was more than capable of making these calls yet didn't.

The one thing we do know is that JMK was Pay's first signing and we know he wanted him in the firstgrade side and promoted him accordingly. That could have been Lewis but it wasn't.

no I don't know .. that's the point I'm trying to make .. By Lewis' comments I can assume, that he by his own admission may not of been fully committed and doing the right thing .. so just maybe his fortunes changed with is attitude and effort.. and that's why JMK got a run before him...

I remember what I wanted to do in my early 20's

 

[GDR]

The fact is pay is head coach and as head coach into a new club he has to determine the potential of ALL players in ALL grades to decide what his future is goingto be and to give feedback to the board or ceo of what he needs to make the team successful.

There's no way in hell I'll believe that a newly entered head coach wouldnt look at all his options in the reserve and simply take the word of the reserve coach.

The fact is a good leader should listen to all of his subordinates opinions ... especially if he had been there for 5 mins and was to pick a squad ..

A shit leader ignores the people around him

 

[CaptainJackson]

The fact is a good leader should listen to all of his subordinates opinions ... especially if he had been there for 5 mins and was to pick a squad ..

A shit leader ignores the people around him

Really?

You're kidding me right?
Hes come into a new environment and DOES NOT KNOW the abilities of his personnel/leaders. It takes time to figure that out and most top coaches and in businesses move with their team because they're tried and tested people

If pay did not make an initial assessment of what he has at a new club that is in itself a failure and lack of experience in leadership skills

 

[Vlasnik]

The fact is a good leader should listen to all of his subordinates opinions ... especially if he had been there for 5 mins and was to pick a squad ..

A shit leader ignores the people around him

Agree like Des.

 

[GDR]

Really?

You're kidding me right?
Hes come into a new environment and DOES NOT KNOW the abilities of his personnel/leaders. It takes time to figure that out and most top coaches and in businesses move with their team because they're tried and tested people

If pay did not make an initial assessment of what he has at a new club that is in itself a failure and lack of experience in leadership skills

that's your opinion , I made mine

I never said to follow them blindly .. but every opinion needs to be factored in when you are new..

Have you never been mislead by an opinion because it seemed to be correct and you didn't have sufficient time to make your own full assessment ??

 

[CrittaMagic69]

no I don't know .. that's the point I'm trying to make .. By Lewis' comments I can assume, that he by his own admission may not of been fully committed and doing the right thing .. so just maybe his fortunes changed with is attitude and effort.. and that's why JMK got a run before him...

I remember what I wanted to do in my early 20's

And how many games of ISP did you watch last season? Did you notice how the team improved when he came into it and they went on a run? His attitude and effort was top notch last season so i don't see how that's possibly be an issue.

It was a mistake to leave him out and his potential wasn't identified right up until he made his way into firstgrade out of pure luck. If you don't want to blame Pay then so be it, Pay as the head coach was still more than capable of promoting him if he thought so.

You also say he could have been listening to his assistants? Well Georgallis talked up Martin last season and said he couldn't understand why he wasn't called up for a debut, also said the same about Cleeland. So is it then logical to then assume Georgallis talked up Martin and Cleeland for firstgrade when Pay arrived yet Pay made HIS OWN decision and went with other options? Does this not support the point that Pay was the one making the calls rather than your opinion of him being heavily influenced by his assistants?

There seems to be far more evidence out there that supports the argument that Pay had contol over the remaining spots in his roster and the make up of his 17 and changes made to it as the season went on. Martin, Smith, Lewis, Holland, could have all been there much earlier if that is what Pay wanted, but he didn't. Them coming into the side wasn't the result of being proactive and more to do withnthe fact of them being forced changes. Yes this is an assumption but again this is far more likely than any other scenario with the evidence currently available.

 

[GDR]

And how many games of ISP did you watch last season? Did you notice how the team improved when he came into it and they went on a run? His attitude and effort was top notch last season so i don't see how that's possibly be an issue.

It was a mistake to leave him out and his potential wasn't identified right up until he made his way into firstgrade out of pure luck. If you don't want to blame Pay then so be it, Pay as the head coach was still more than capable of promoting him if he thought so.

You also say he could have been listening to his assistants? Well Georgallis talked up Martin last season and said he couldn't understand why he wasn't called up for a debut, also said the same about Cleeland. So is it then logical to then assume Georgallis talked up Martin and Cleeland for firstgrade when Pay arrived yet Pay made HIS OWN decision and went with other options? Does this not support the point that Pay was the one making the calls rather than your opinion of him being heavily influenced by his assistants?

There seems to be far more evidence out there that supports the argument that Pay had contol over the remaining spots in his roster and the make up of his 17 and changes made to it as the season went on. Martin, Smith, Lewis, Holland, could have all been there much earlier if that is what Pay wanted, but he didn't. Them coming into the side wasn't the result of being proactive and more to do withnthe fact of them being forced changes. Yes this is an assumption but again this is far more likely than any other scenario with the evidence currently available.

I didn't watch any ISP games last year which matters very little to the points I was making .. you keep referring to things that appear great on the surface but know nothing further to that .. if he was so great last year and told to look elsewhere, how come the other clubs didn't come running??

I know that Martin was dropped due to turning up late to training earlier in the season .. do you know if this was an isolated incident ?? I don't ..

History has shown that reggies form matters very little to 1st grade

you can continue to judge things on face value and I will always try to look a bit deeper until the evidence becomes irrefutable..

Right now there is no where near enough evidence to suggest that Pay is a great coach or a sh!t one (considering the squad especially in key positions).. but there is enough evidence to suggest that he is a great motivator.. that's all I can judge right now and you should be no surer. The fact is that you started hating on pay before he even picked up a clip board..

That the difference, I'm trying to be impartial.. you have never shown anything that slightly even resembles impartial ..

 

[CaptainJackson]

that's your opinion , I made mine

I never said to follow them blindly .. but every opinion needs to be factored in when you are new..

Have you never been mislead by an opinion because it seemed to be correct and you didn't have sufficient time to make your own full assessment ??

So just to be clear, it's ok to blame georgallis for giving thewrong feedback but not ok to blame pay for coming into a new unknown environment and take everything at face value.

Mate I run businesses (in the corporate world) I am manager, and if I hired any leader and he gave the excuse, in an already failing business, that he trusted the staff already there,I'd have his head. I brought him in to lead the business out of the ditch it's in and id expect him to be accountable for every aspect, anything else would be considered incompetence

And he had more than sufficient time and VIDEO TAPES OF GAMES. I'm sorry but it's what concerns me about pay. The inability to spottalentt

 

[GDR]

So just to be clear, it's ok to blame georgallis for giving thewrong feedback but not ok to blame pay for coming into a new unknown environment and take everything at face value.

Mate I run businesses (in the corporate world) I am manager, and if I hired any leader and he gave the excuse, in an already failing business, that he trusted the staff already there,I'd have his head. I brought him in to lead the business out of the ditch it's in and id expect him to be accountable for every aspect, anything else would be considered incompetence

And he had more than sufficient time and VIDEO TAPES OF GAMES. I'm sorry but it's what concerns me about pay. The inability to spottalentt

Your business experience does not always apply to league ... just ask Greenberg..

In most businesses anyone is expendable .. league is so much different .. sometimes the players hold the cards, sometimes the coach, sometimes the Board and sometimes the league .. that's why I don't think your comparisons are fair..