Electric vs petrol cars

[speedy2460]

It looks like the EV's are not suited to Australia. The long distances we need to travel, the lack of charging stations, the inability
to tow a van or trailer. Not to mention the purchase costs. Oh, did I mention the fire problem, the difficulty and cost of getting insurance,
being banned in a lot of locations because of fire risk. Doesnt really add up.

 

[TwinTurbo]

It looks like the EV's are not suited to Australia. The long distances we need to travel, the lack of charging stations, the inability
to tow a van or trailer. Not to mention the purchase costs. Oh, did I mention the fire problem, the difficulty and cost of getting insurance,
being banned in a lot of locations because of fire risk. Doesnt really add up

My view for some time has been that EV’s will suite around 1/3rd of people and for various reasons won’t suite the other 2/3rds. Mr Toyoda recently talked to the media about EV’s reaching 30% of the world‘s car buyers, but he is firmly of the belief that other alternatives will be required for the remainder.

There are a bunch of statistics that support that view, for example around 28% of Australia’s population live in regional and remote areas where distances and poor economic justification for recharging stations make EV’s unsuitable. There are around 800,000 caravans in Australia, plus other reasons for towing, trailers, jet skis, boats etc. A task that EV’s are unsuitable for. Around 30% live where there is no off street parking, which means paying for recharging which results in EV’s costing much the same to recharge as refueling an ICEV for the same distance travelled.

Pricing wise it’s pretty obvious that car manufacturers are pushing up the prices of their ICEV’s to generate the funds to invest in EV’s. Plus governments are punishing them based on their fleet average emissions. So they will have to charge more for ICEV’s to pay the government “taxes”. Of course it’s called a “levy” but we all know that’s just “tax” spelt differently.

I usually keep my daily driven cars for 4 to 5 years, but my next ICEV will be a 10+ year purchase, so I’m going to make it one that I will be happy to keep, drive and maintain for that long. I have quite a few relatives and friends looking at making similar decisions. Pretty good chance that the better half’s next car will be an EV, as it will suite her usage patterns and we can charge it from the solar during the day when the sun shines.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Blue_boost]

Plus if an EV catches fire… an inferno

 

[Memberberries]

Plus if an EV catches fire… an inferno

EV fires are healthy for the environment

 

[MattyB]

It looks like the EV's are not suited to Australia. The long distances we need to travel, the lack of charging stations, the inability
to tow a van or trailer. Not to mention the purchase costs. Oh, did I mention the fire problem, the difficulty and cost of getting insurance,
being banned in a lot of locations because of fire risk. Doesnt really add up.

ICE cars catch fire much more often than EV's

they can tow a trailer or boat, of course the range reduces, much like an ICE car.

Insurance is not an issue, apart from the cost, it costs more because the purchase price is higher

 

[Blue_boost]

Insurance is not an issue, apart from the cost, it costs more because the purchase price is higher

So insurance is an issue if its higher, even if related to purchase price.. Its a double whammy as the purchase price is also inflated because of freight forwarders insurance cost

Many freight forwarders are being charged astronomical insurance prices to transport EV due to the fire danger. They could take out a whole boat or they have to have specific fire compartments to contain.. All this cost gets passed on as part of the purchase price for consumer. Makes them again less efficient.

as an EV customer, you wont just get a black eye, you get two black eyes.

 

[speedy2460]

ICE cars catch fire much more often than EV's

they can tow a trailer or boat, of course the range reduces, much like an ICE car.

Insurance is not an issue, apart from the cost, it costs more because the purchase price is higher

ICE cars catch fire more than EV vehicles? I just wonder what the true percentage is.
EV vehicles will tow a small box trailer, but cannot tow a car trailer or a horse trailer. It wouldnt get up the hills.

 

[TwinTurbo]

they can tow a trailer or boat, of course the range reduces, much like an ICE car.

I have actually done some towing with EV's, most recently a Merc EQB towing a pair of jet skis with the family on board and enough luggage for weekend to Jindabyne. We do this long weekend trip regularly and the ICEV makes the Sydney to Jindabyne trip in around 4.5 hours non stop, we do have 2 drivers of course. We leave around 4.30 am and we are on the water by 9.30 am after a quick breakfast, refuel once in Jindabyne over the weekend and then drive home, also no need to stop. Fuel consumption around 10% worse than driving around town unloaded.

In comparison the EBC with it's 66 kWh battery wouldn't make it there without a recharging stop as it was using 21 kWh per 100 km on the freeway, around town it uses around 15 kWh. The towing effect is a minus 40% in the range stakes, a family of 4 plus luggage plus towing really kills the economy. As a result the range anxiety starts kicking in and we make a stop at the fast charger in Canberra, near the airport. That's a 45 minute stop plus 10 minutes to get off the freeway to the recharger, luckily no queuing for a recharger. This means on the water at around 11 am after a quick morning tea stop.

While we are in Jindabyne I recharge it again while we have dinner because there are no fast chargers there and I know it's going to take 2.5 hours. Then a 55 minute stop at the fast charger in Goulburn on the way home, plus 15 minutes driving off the freeway.

That weekend we spent a total of 4 1/2 hours recharging the EQB compared to 5 minutes refueling the ICEV. Admittedly for the slow recharge in Jindabyne we went to the closest pub rather than our usual restaurant, so it was a gastronomical step down.

In summary, yes you can tow with EV, but you need to make sure you have enough time to waste recharging 2 to 3 times more often than the average ICEV tow master. Plus instead of a 5 minute refuel you need to allow 45 minutes minimum at a fast charger and 3 or 4 times that at a slow charger.


Always a Bulldog

 

[TwinTurbo]

ICE cars catch fire more than EV vehicles? I just wonder what the true percentage is.
EV vehicles will tow a small box trailer, but cannot tow a car trailer or a horse trailer. It wouldnt get up the hills.

Grunt is not a problem, any decent EV will tow a couple of tonnes of caravan easily. The EQB in the post above has 3 litre V6 diesel Amarok level of torque, 4 people, a weekend of luggage and a pair jet skis is hardly noticeable performance wise. But it sure plays havoc with the economy, around town it comfortably does 400 km between recharges, but with that load on the freeway and it's 250 km then the range anxiety gets too much.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Hacky McAxe]

ICE cars catch fire more than EV vehicles? I just wonder what the true percentage is.
EV vehicles will tow a small box trailer, but cannot tow a car trailer or a horse trailer. It wouldnt get up the hills.

Yeah, it's an odd thing. Odd because propaganda would have you believe otherwise. But it's far more common for ICE to catch fire than EVs.

There is some nuance. EVs haven't been around as long. But EVs have been around for over 10 years and the rates of fire are lower.

But that doesn't paint the whole picture. An EV fire is more toxic than an ICE fire, and it's often safer to let an EV fire burn out rather than extinguish.

The other thing to keep in mind is hybrids. Hybrid fires are more common than ICE and EV fires.

But you should also look at probability. The chance of you having a fire from an EV, ICE, or Hybrid is so low that no one should really care.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Honestly. The rates are stupid low. If you buy an EV and you're worried about it catching fire. You have a higher chance of an electrical fault burning down your house. Of course everything is additive and you're adding another point of failure, but the fire chance is so extremely low that it shouldn't be priority for anyone.

 

[Blue_boost]

Grunt is not a problem, any decent EV will tow a couple of tonnes of caravan easily. The EQB in the post above has 3 litre V6 diesel Amarok level of torque, 4 people, a weekend of luggage and a pair jet skis is hardly noticeable performance wise. But it sure plays havoc with the economy, around town it comfortably does 400 km between recharges, but with that load on the freeway and it's 250 km then the range anxiety gets too much.


Always a Bulldog

Absolutely correct.. the EV has plenty torque. some can easily out accelerate a petrol car but it can only do it for a few minutes and it’s charge is gone.. a petrol car will do it all day..

If I had to travel to Melbourne from Sydney, I’d take the slowest new petrol car over the fastest EV.. I’d still get there hours before the EV

 

[Memberberries]

Absolutely correct.. the EV has plenty torque. some can easily out accelerate a petrol car but it can only do it for a few minutes and it’s charge is gone.. a petrol car will do it all day..

If I had to travel to Melbourne from Sydney, I’d take the slowest new petrol car over the fastest EV.. I’d still get there hours before the EV

What's the point of having good acceleration if there is no consistency?

When I hear the Germans start talking up EV's that's when I'm sold!

 

[Memberberries]

The WSJ says ze Germans say nein!

 

[Blue_boost]

The WSJ says ze Germans say nein!

the Germans really know how to make cars.. if they reject EV technology it’s for good reason. Toyota also rejecting EV

some brands out there like Volvo were dying a savage death and it was a last Hail Mary to go all EV with Polester. They have.all their chips in and must be very nervous

brands like Hyundai and Kia wanted to make good cars so they poached German engineers. They have their toes in the water with EV but know petrol is their bread and butter.

it seems like the dodgy sketchy Chinese brands (Havel byd ldv mg) are most interested in EV… with Volvo /polester making their cars in china also. Tesla being one of the most unreliable brands in existence.. people are being fooled buying an EV

 

[Blue_boost]

I need a new mower and someone I know suggested an electric mower. I was about to hit them with a mike Tyson liver body blow followed by an uppercut. Petrol mower for me and petrol car for me.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

the Germans really know how to make cars.. if they reject EV technology it’s for good reason. Toyota also rejecting EV

some brands out there like Volvo were dying a savage death and it was a last Hail Mary to go all EV with Polester. They have.all their chips in and must be very nervous

brands like Hyundai and Kia wanted to make good cars so they poached German engineers. They have their toes in the water with EV but know petrol is their bread and butter.

it seems like the dodgy sketchy Chinese brands (Havel byd ldv mg) are most interested in EV… with Volvo /polester making their cars in china also. Tesla being one of the most unreliable brands in existence.. people are being fooled buying an EV

Toyota aren't rejecting EVs. They have many EVs. They also announced that while they're planning to bring out their hydrogen engines soon, they are also developing new EVs alongside them.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

What's the point of having good acceleration if there is no consistency?

When I hear the Germans start talking up EV's that's when I'm sold!

Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW. All of the major German car manufacturers make EV models.

Plus, around 25% of the population of Germany drive EV's. The only difference in Germany is that the EV government incentive ended. The Australian one also ended. Most of them are ending because EV rollouts and sales are at the stage where the government doesn't need to push them any more.

 

[MattyB]

Absolutely correct.. the EV has plenty torque. some can easily out accelerate a petrol car but it can only do it for a few minutes and it’s charge is gone.. a petrol car will do it all day..

If I had to travel to Melbourne from Sydney, I’d take the slowest new petrol car over the fastest EV.. I’d still get there hours before the EV

that's not true, EV's have the power available to them all day, i had a BYD Atto 3 for a week, drove it hard all week and it didn't miss a beat

 

[TwinTurbo]

that's not true, EV's have the power available to them all day, i had a BYD Atto 3 for a week, drove it hard all week and it didn't miss a beat

Try towing OR load it up with the family OR set the recharger destination within 50 km of the range and it will limit the power to make sure that you make it. Drive it at track day and you will be lucky to get a handful of laps before the battery overheats and it cuts power.

Always a Bulldog