Electric vs petrol cars

[Doogie]

I have been looking at SUVs, 'cause kids take up too much space. And my Commodore is approaching the 300k so it probably doesn't have much left in it. One thing I found funny when going through the reviews was that all comparisons say the same thing, "if you want acceleration, not much can compete with the EVs"

A fully loaded SUV would be a different matter. But on base load, they have quite a jump start.

Get a twin motor - even if its low 4 seconds - you'll still be a cool dad.

 

[Blue_boost]

Pretty good stuff mate - but will add a bit to debunk some of the whataboutism from the usual dickheads. Battery life is estimated at around 80% after 10 years. So this idea you lose 25% after 3 years - lol - and you have this thing called a warranty.

Charging depends on the car. Some cars can accept higher wattage but as someone pointed out - not a good thing for the batteries. As for connectivity - yeah the car connection differs from car to car but the other end of the cable is adaptable. So for a $50 - $100 adaptor you can charge say a VV on a tesla station. Pending the wattage requirement (which is no different to not knowing whether you put diesel or petrol in your car). TBH - if you are not charging at home, it takes longer to recoup your dollars

As for accidents, Tesla have the full blown body mould and the insurance reflects that. Most other EVs are built on fuel platforms, so dings are easily repairable and the insurance reflects that.

So lets get down to dollars. If I fitted out my house with full solar + batteries for house + car- $25k. Daily charge on the car is about 30% of that so say $8k. My quarterly bill is $700 ish - so about 8-9 years to recoup just the home cost of the solar. So doesn't save me much but I am in front on the home for the battery warranty life (10 years).

If I'm in the office 5 days a week with my current car - $150/week fuel. So round numbers $7.5k per year. So just over a year to pay the car component of my power system off. And for the next 5 years (warranty on most EVs), $37500 in front on fuel.

Service intervals on my current car is 12500km or 6 months. So twice a year - maybe $600 each. Warranty period of 6 years $7200. Service intervals for an EV range from 12 - 24 months and can be capped. So maybe $400 a service (as its much simpler). Warranty period $1200 in service.

So now we up to $43500 in savings over 6 years. And this doesn't consider any possible future incentives that come the way of EV owners in Australia. So hypothetically, I'm getting almost a half price new car. Go figure...

Now one question that is coming up is resale value. This is an interesting argument because of low supply in Australia of fuel cars driving up second hand car prices. Hard to say what this looks like in Australia but the o/s experience is as prices come down and stock floods in, resale dies. The only study I'm aware of is in the UK which says resale is pretty tragic on EVs - but they had some serious incentives to buys EVs unlike Australia. But to offset this you can get guaranteed resale with the dealer - which pending the car maybe 50% after 6 years. Or you can be selective and get something that holds it value (such as a M series BMW). No different really to a fuel car.

Next years models are getting up around 600-650km range. So running 20/80 on battery - you can do Qld from Sydney and potentially stay overnight somewhere to recharge. But tbh - who does that drive when flights and rentals are so cheap?

And just to put the icing on the cake - I can get next year a 4 motor EV that'll do 0-60 in just over 3 seconds for around $80k. You are not getting something that quick for under a $100k unless you go full custom and if you do - are you really using it as a daily driver? And I'll guarantee your fuel bill is ugly as. Oh - thats right - my $80k car is only $40k after all of the above. Its just such a serious no brainer.

Change is hard for some people - so is maths apparently. Nice post @TwinTurbo

you didn’t debunk much. So you presume full efficiency of theEV… no battery degradation, no increase in electricity prices. No replacement of battery to actually sell it used? All the capital loss that you cop on the chin.. double the cost of the buy in compared to a comparable petrol car.. see attached clip.. are you debunked?

 

[Doogie]

you didn’t debunk much. So you presume full efficiency of theEV… no battery degradation, no increase in electricity prices. No replacement of battery to actually sell it used? All the capital loss that you cop on the chin.. double the cost of the buy in compared to a comparable petrol car.. see attached clip.. are you debunked?

Why would I assume no battery degradation (when I quoted the average industry statistics) and electricity prices (when its your own solar you idiot and you're producing more capacity per my numbers than you need).

Replacement of battery? You do guaranteed buyback within warranty as I said before. Can you actually read?

Am I debunked? I'll raise your 'one vehicle' with quite a few more.

How about the EA falcon series 1 - with the 50c steering wheel rubber replacement that cost $2000 in man hours to replace. On a $10,000 car.

Or the 1990's capri - one of the greatest lemons every produced (funny how Ford is having a bad day). I could add up millions of petrol debacles - and you have one. Well done.

Either wash your mouth out or swallow it - your choice.

 

[Blue_boost]

One thing I found funny when going through the reviews was that all comparisons say the same thing, "if you want acceleration, not much can compete with the EVs"

acceleration is one aspect only of motoring..an EV is an incredibly heavy vehicle, they will handle like a boat especially the suv versions… for people who think a car is just a method of transport to get from a to b, get an ev if you don’t car how it drives, but for enthusiasts, EVs are nowhere near as engaging as petrol cars.

I heard it from the horses mouth a top automotive executive that has worked for some of the best brands in the world that said EVs are just too expensive at the moment.. the cost Of buy in for what you get.

 

[Blue_boost]

Why would I assume no battery degradation (when I quoted the average industry statistics) and electricity prices (when its your own solar you idiot and you're producing more capacity per my numbers than you need).

Replacement of battery? You do guaranteed buyback within warranty as I said before. Can you actually read?

Am I debunked? I'll raise your 'one vehicle' with quite a few more.

How about the EA falcon series 1 - with the 50c steering wheel rubber replacement that cost $2000 in man hours to replace. On a $10,000 car.

Or the 1990's capri - one of the greatest lemons every produced (funny how Ford is having a bad day). I could add up millions of petrol debacles - and you have one. Well done.

Either wash your mouth out or swallow it - your choice.

your comparing a 1990s car to a current day EV? You been drinking?? At least compare a current day petrol car to an EV..

So you have to install a massive solar installation to run an EV? So how do you charge it in the day when the suns out and your at work? Charge it at night with no sun An own goal?

what about all the impromptu times you need to stop at a servo to charge when you didn’t expect to, with 3 EV drivers in front of you taking an hour each ? all the hours lost sitting around, all the snacks you buy waiting around that you didn’t need.. whilst the petrol driver fills up in 3 minutes, flips you the bird and speeds away to their destination.

The cost of a comparable petrol
Car is half the EV equivalent so straight away your way off, then according to you another $25k to install solar panels to charge at night when there is no sun, then have to spend $60k to install a new battery when you sell it or it’s scrap metal value only, plus it’s a lifeless appliance of a vehicle with no fun..

I think you debunked yourself and scored an own goal.. check out the video below

 

[Doogie]

your comparing a 1990s car to a current day EV? You been drinking?? At least compare a current day petrol car to an EV..

So you have to install a massive solar installation to run an EV? So how do you charge it in the day when the suns out and your at work? Charge it at night with no sun An own goal?

what about all the impromptu times you need to stop at a servo to charge when you didn’t expect to, with 3 EV drivers in front of you taking an hour each ? all the hours lost sitting around, all the snacks you buy waiting around that you didn’t need.. whilst the petrol driver fills up in 3 minutes, flips you the bird and speeds away to their destination.

The cost of a comparable petrol
Car is half the EV equivalent so straight away your way off, then according to you another $25k to install solar panels to charge at night when there is no sun, then have to spend $60k to install a new battery when you sell it or it’s scrap metal value only, plus it’s a lifeless appliance of a vehicle with no fun..

I think you debunked yourself and scored an own goal.. check out the video below

Lol - you grab a random whinge video and are equating it to all EVS's. How about the Ford Everest - drive car of the year - despite the demo given to drive bursting into flame at the shooting. Pretty big news at the time.

Or al the BT50's that were recalled because they could burst into flame at any time. Is this recent enough for you?

You still cannot read - the $25k gets you house batteries. Panels power the batteries during the day so you can use the power at night. And you'll never guess what happens the following day when the batteries are drawn down - the panels power it up again. Go figure.

80 km for me to and from work. So how or why do I need to 'wait around' - car is back to full or close to full storage every night. All the hours sitting at servos for 5c off petrol when the EV guy is going home to charge while you sleep. He flips the bird at you for being such an idiot that doesn't understand how batteries and solar panels work.

Give up - you're an idiot.

 

[Blue_boost]

Lol - you grab a random whinge video and are equating it to all EVS's. How about the Ford Everest - drive car of the year - despite the demo given to drive bursting into flame at the shooting. Pretty big news at the time.

Or al the BT50's that were recalled because they could burst into flame at any time. Is this recent enough for you?

You still cannot read - the $25k gets you house batteries. Panels power the batteries during the day so you can use the power at night. And you'll never guess what happens the following day when the batteries are drawn down - the panels power it up again. Go figure.

80 km for me to and from work. So how or why do I need to 'wait around' - car is back to full or close to full storage every night. All the hours sitting at servos for 5c off petrol when the EV guy is going home to charge while you sleep. He flips the bird at you for being such an idiot that doesn't understand how batteries and solar panels work.

Give up - you're an idiot.

another is how you quote acceleration of an EV is unmatched.. well yes that is partly true but it’s only good for two bursts of acceleration, battery heats up and pulls all the power out.. the petrol car laps the Nurburgring consistently at full pace for the whole tank of fuel.

point I’m making is clear to most but not you… the EV comes out way behind if it’s about dollars… the extra buy in cost, plus solar station install, plus battery replacement, plus waiting all day when you have to charge away from home, the petrol car is the clear winner on cost and a bigger winner when it comes to a more enjoyable drive. Don’t be one of those early adopter suckers, wait until when EVs cost the same as a petrol car, charge in 5 minutes and don’t blow up, maybe in 10 years the technology may be sorted. Until then your one of those people that paid $50k for a 40 inch plasma tv when they were first released 29 years back… now they don’t even exist anymore and you buy a better tv for $500.. do you own a sharp MZ700 computer at all? (For those playing at home, it was an overpriced very slow computer released in the 1980s)

in 10 years people will laugh at those people who bought an EV in 2023, paid 3 times too much and they were so heavy and took all day to charge up… can’t you see your being ridiculous?

 

[Doogie]

another is how you quote acceleration of an EV is unmatched.. well yes that is partly true but it’s only good for two bursts of acceleration, battery heats up and pulls all the power out.. the petrol car laps the Nurburgring consistently at full pace for the whole tank of fuel.

point I’m making is clear to most but not you… the EV comes out way behind if it’s about dollars… the extra buy in cost, plus solar station install, plus battery replacement, plus waiting all day when you have to charge away from home, the petrol car is the clear winner on cost and a bigger winner when it comes to a more enjoyable drive. Don’t be one of those early adopter suckers, when EVs cost the same as a petrol car, charge in 5 minutes and don’t blow up, maybe the technology is sorted. Until then your one of those people that paid $50k for a 40 inch plasma tv when they were first released 29 years back… now they don’t even exist anymore and you buy a better tv for $500.. do you own a sharp MZ700 computer at all? (For those playing at home, it was an overpriced very slow computer released in the 1980s)

in 10 years people will laugh at those people who bought an EV in 2023, but 3 times too much and

Exactly where did I say its unmatched? $ for $ - you get more out of a twin motor EV.

How exactly are you behind on dollars? Just showed you how you can get sub 4s 0-60 for $40k with an ev.

But I'm not expecting you to understand this - its for the non-stupid people. You, after being told that $25k for solar panels and a battery kept rabbiting about paying top dollar for power from the electricity company and how you cannot charge the car at night, need to give yourself an uppercut. You lost your right to comment.

In 10 years people will laugh at idiots who pretend they own pitties by taking fake dog food photos. Actually - they're laughing now....

 

[04 Dreaming]

Ask the fire service what they think of EVs and they will tell u they are problematic. If my RAM goes up in flames it’ll take about 1000 litres of h20 to put her out. If a BYD atto goes up in flames it’ll take about 15000 litres to get that inferno under control

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Ask the fire service what they think of EVs and they will tell u they are problematic. If my RAM goes up in flames it’ll take about 1000 litres of h20 to put her out. If a BYD atto goes up in flames it’ll take about 15000 litres to get that inferno under control

Yep. It's a problem. EV fires are much harder to put it. But they are also much less common than petrol car fires.

 

[Blue_boost]

Ask the fire service what they think of EVs and they will tell u they are problematic. If my RAM goes up in flames it’ll take about 1000 litres of h20 to put her out. If a BYD atto goes up in flames it’ll take about 15000 litres to get that inferno under control

Ask @Doogie and he will say its not true because you didnt measure how much water exactly.

The worse part is what if you are sitting in the BYD atto if it catches fire.. The emergency services wont go near it until the fire torches everything in sight including the occupants.

 

[Wahesh]

Electric cars are for pussies.

Give me a fuel-powered beast anytime of the day.

 

[Doogie]

Ask @Doogie and he will say its not true because you didnt measure how much water exactly.

The worse part is what if you are sitting in the BYD atto if it catches fire.. The emergency services wont go near it until the fire torches everything in sight including the occupants.

So, when you're shown to be horribly wrong your comeback is to try make someone else wrong by making shit up?

So lets go back a few steps - how exactly are electricity price rises going to affect you when you have full solar capacity and how exactly is night time for your solar going to be a problem when you have a battery?

Cannot wait for the answer on this.

 

[Blue_boost]

Exactly where did I say its unmatched? $ for $ - you get more out of a twin motor EV.

How exactly are you behind on dollars? Just showed you how you can get sub 4s 0-60 for $40k with an ev.

But I'm not expecting you to understand this - its for the non-stupid people. You, after being told that $25k for solar panels and a battery kept rabbiting about paying top dollar for power from the electricity company and how you cannot charge the car at night, need to give yourself an uppercut. You lost your right to comment.

In 10 years people will laugh at idiots who pretend they own pitties by taking fake dog food photos. Actually - they're laughing now....

Ok lets run a case study.... Ill try for a apples to apples basis..

BUY IN
Blue_boost Buys a petrol MG ZS for $23990 drive away
@Doogie Buys an electric MG ZS for $42736 @Doogie is $-18746 for the same car

@Doogie goes to install a $25,000 of Solar panels on his roof @Doogie is now $43746 behind

RUNNING COSTS
Blue_Boost fuels up the car $70 a week x 52 weeks x 5 years = $18200
Rego / insurance lets assume same
@Doogie gets caught unexpectingly at Servos due to low charge, coffees, nick nacks etc $4000 over 5 years
@Doogie electricity prices for charges as its not completely fee $15 per week X 52 weeks x 5 years = $3,900
@Doogie time lost waiting for charges away from home, 1 hour per week x 52 x 5 years = 260 hours!!

Maintenance costs, lets assume same. oil changes not so expensive but as EV weighs much more offset by increased brakes maintenance etc.

@Doogie claws back to be only $33,446 behind

SALE @ 5 years

@Doogie needs to replace battery or else his car is scrap value so @Doogie $35,000 expense for new battery. People will not buy a EV with 80% capacity left... Would you buy a car with 20% horsepower missing?
Blue_boost needs a nice rince and a bit of carnauba wax to put it for sale $100

Sale Price, Blue_boost sells for $10,000 lets be conservative
@Doogie sells for $25000 after he just spent $35000 on a new battery

So capital loss is .
Blue_boost $23990 - $10,000 sale = 13990 blue boost loss on sale
@Doogie $42736 + $35000 battery - 25000 sale = $52736 loss on sale
difference is @Doogie loses out again -$38746

TOTAL $$ LOSS FOR @Doogie with his EV is $72192 not even factoring in the inconvenience of waiting for charging, the anxiety of range, the replacement of the solar panels that are less efficient and the eyesore on his roof. Plus the souless driving experience

We also didnt factor in when people live in units and cant setup their own solar installation or run cables out onto the road..

Its another checkmate TKO win for blue_boost it seems

 

[Blue_boost]

So, when you're shown to be horribly wrong your comeback is to try make someone else wrong by making shit up?

So lets go back a few steps - how exactly are electricity price rises going to affect you when you have full solar capacity and how exactly is night time for your solar going to be a problem when you have a battery?

Cannot wait for the answer on this.

because you dont have full solar capacity.. is your roof the size of a football field to have a 500kw installation? Your 10 panels wont cover much.

Also where do you buy an EV under $40k that does 0-100 in under 4 seconds lol.

 

[Wahesh]

Ok lets run a case study.... Ill try for a apples to apples basis..

BUY IN
Blue_boost Buys a petrol MG ZS for $23990 drive away
@Doogie Buys an electric MG ZS for $42736 @Doogie is $-18746 for the same car

@Doogie goes to install a $25,000 of Solar panels on his roof @Doogie is now $43746 behind

RUNNING COSTS
Blue_Boost fuels up the car $70 a week x 52 weeks x 5 years = $18200
Rego / insurance lets assume same
@Doogie gets caught unexpectingly at Servos due to low charge, coffees, nick nacks etc $4000 over 5 years
@Doogie electricity prices for charges as its not completely fee $15 per week X 52 weeks x 5 years = $3,900
@Doogie time lost waiting for charges away from home, 1 hour per week x 52 x 5 years = 260 hours!!

Maintenance costs, lets assume same. oil changes not so expensive but as EV weighs much more offset by increased brakes maintenance etc.

@Doogie claws back to be only $33,446 behind

SALE @ 5 years

@Doogie needs to replace battery or else his car is scrap value so @Doogie $35,000 expense for new battery. People will not buy a EV with 80% capacity left... Would you buy a car with 20% horsepower missing?
Blue_boost needs a nice rince and a bit of carnauba wax to put it for sale $100

Sale Price, Blue_boost sells for $10,000 lets be conservative
@Doogie sells for $25000 after he just spent $35000 on a new battery

So capital loss is .
Blue_boost $23990 - $10,000 sale = 13990 blue boost loss on sale
@Doogie $42736 + $35000 battery - 25000 sale = $52736 loss on sale
difference is @Doogie loses out again -$38746

TOTAL $$ LOSS FOR @Doogie with his EV is $72192 not even factoring in the inconvenience of waiting for charging, the anxiety of range, the replacement of the solar panels that are less efficient and the eyesore on his roof. Plus the souless driving experience

We also didnt factor in when people live in units and cant setup their own solar installation or run cables out onto the road..

Its another checkmate TKO win for blue_boost it seems

@Doogie you've just been humiliated by the Boost. No shame in that though, you just need to accept it and move on.

 

[Blue_boost]

@Doogie please watch this.. it may save your life... Don't make the mistake with an EV, your better than that.

 

[Blue_boost]

@Doogie you've just been humiliated by the Boost. No shame in that though, you just need to accept it and move on.

Just like the "yes" Voice referendum.. ITs going to be a 3-0 origin series in my favour this year.

 

[Doogie]

@Doogie you've just been humiliated by the Boost. No shame in that though, you just need to accept it and move on.

But he still hasn't explained how when I have solar my electricity prices go up or how I cannot use solar at night when i have a battery.

BTW, of course he'd use a mg as a comp, he has lots of experience at shit cars.

Also noticed he didn't tally his own numbers. Wonder if he did and discovered..... oops. And to meet my requirements around 62 sqm of roof space. Easy done that is 13 kW off the shelf.

 

[MattyB]

@Doogie please watch this.. it may save your life... Don't make the mistake with an EV, your better than that.

This video is total BS, Petrol cars explode way more than EV's