Big League Wrap - Mick Ennis nailed it on the head

[Minion]

It's a problem but it's not our only one. Our attacking structures are shithouse, it's not like were not executing well because of preasure or anything, we just aren't doing enough.

Klemmers play the balls have become frustratingly slow over time, he looks like he focuses way too much on getting post contact metres instead of pushing away from defenders and getting himself into a good position to play the ball. Woods atleast stands in the tackle at times and manages to get a play the ball away with markers out of position.

A lot of the forwards are playing the ball way too slowly.

 

[ThePedigree]

Pretty sure Mick said something along the lines of Klemmer and Woods make meters but almost always get put on their backs and in turn get a really slow play the ball because of it. Not sure how that got translated into Lichaas fault TBH.

 

[D- voice]

25 years ago at training we were practicing spin passing from both sides. Blows my mind seeing players who can't spin pass from both sides in this modern era without jobs. If I was Lichaa I would be doing extras after every training practicing his passing and from the ground. I think he needs to lose 5kgs too, doesn't look as agile with the extra size. He needs to be sharp. That said, I don't know if that would be enough to save him. Surely Pay is considering doing something there.

It's the general sad state of the game,
Creativity and smart plays are out the window.
In comes speed size and strength.
I agree on Lichaa, I believe he can be a supper-sub. 14

 

[D- voice]

Pretty sure Mick said something along the lines of Klemmer and Woods make meters but almost always get put on their backs and in turn get a really slow play the ball because of it. Not sure how that got translated into Lichaas fault TBH.

That was another point he made, and he was right !

 

[Typical dog]

Pretty sure Mick said something along the lines of Klemmer and Woods make meters but almost always get put on their backs and in turn get a really slow play the ball because of it. Not sure how that got translated into Lichaas fault TBH.

Yeah klemmer definitely has to fall onto his stomach sometimes. EVERY hit up he takes he hits the d line and turns his back to pump out extra metres. It sure chews up extra metres but while he is in slow motion the d line is getting set and he always gets put on his back.
I like the guy and he puts in but sometimes we just need a 8m hit up with a play the ball while the d is going backwards.
Sidenote:
One of my eels mates reckons klemmer has supercoach and selects himself as captain. Haha

 

[Alan79]

Watch the roosters game again and take off your hate filled Lichaa glasses off for a second..

Yes he had a shit game but.....

Our forwards were always put onto their backs and took forever to play the ball. In those situations not even Cook or Smith could have darted from dummy half not even Usain Bolt could have done a better job.
When our backs brought it up out of our zone they made massive meters, because of their quick play the ball which allowed the next back to go for a quick dart.
Listen to Damian cook interview, he specifically mentioned how he was able to make those runs on the back of quick play the balls by the forwards.
You can replace lichaa with any other hooker and they wont be able to make inroads unless our forwards learn to show more urgency

I would argue that it's cause and effect when it comes to fast play the balls. If our forwards were regularly able to hit the line at pace, they won't get outmuscled and put on their backs by the defense. Compare our representative forwards when they play with a different hooker for Aus or NSW. It's like they grow another leg. I'm sure they're not intentionally playing to get dominated at club level. When we had Ennis here our forward pack was close to if not the best in the game most weeks. Lichaa starts with the club and almost instantly they've gone downhill. Even everyones favorite whipping boy Tolman had fans here feeling he was being short changed to not be making the NSW side when Ennis was here. I think Tolman lacks acceleration, but he used to make up for that by hitting his straps before he got the ball. With Lichaa he can't rely on a well timed pass so he never gets to pace anymore. Our backs do have acceleration so they've got the ability to speed up after catching a pass which is why I think they look better. I'm not going to go on about this anymore anyway. I think if we get a hooker into our side that can time his passes our forwards will look 20-30% as soon as they realise they can run harder and know they'll get a decent pass.

Depth with players in motion is 100% the best option for any attacking structure.

The biggest issue with playing with depth is you need to be super fit. Players have to cover so much more ground going back and forth. We look unfit playing flat so I don’t think we can pull it off.

We need quick play the balls with good sharp service from dummy half. Be ready to support second phase play.

Foran needs to run the side as a dominant half. He cannot hide on the right. He is the Only organising half in the club.

I agree with all of that and I think that Lichaa is the weak link that we need to strengthen to get things working. Even if we get the second phase play when the forwards have been stopped the second phase play is also starting from being flat footed and lacks bite. It's why we often try to go around sides rather than through them.

I'm honestly sick of going on about this. I have made reference to this for the best part of this and last season now. Prior to that I was hugely supportive of Lichaa, thinking he just needed time to get things right. For a huge part of that time people would argue that Hasler needed to free Lichaa up to run and our issues from 9 would be gone. Lichaa is free to do all the running he wants now and the same issues are here. Do we blame another coach and our forwards or do we search within our squad for a player who might turn our expensive forwards into a more dominant force. I just wonder, do we want our side to have three more below par years to give Lichaa the chance to learn the bread and butter skills of a hooker (crisp well timed passing) while he smilingly accepts compliments on his running game, or do we bite the bullet and try someone else at 9. I seriously think Lichaa has no clue that his passing skills aren't up to par. He seems to be pretty pleased with where his football skills are at from what I can see when he speaks in interviews. He basically passed the buck last year after he knew Hasler was gone and implied that he was going to deliver this year. He isn't though and I think it's time he stops having his ego fed and copped the hard truth by getting told he has to go back to basics and vastly improve his ball service. He has the physical ability to make it in the NRL, but his passing game in my opinion makes him a poor fit for an NRL side.

 

[Raikkonen]

A lot of the forwards are playing the ball way too slowly.

Some are, but even when a forward does play the ball quickly, the benefit is usually lost by Lichaa’s slow service.

 

[JMac15]

I would argue that it's cause and effect when it comes to fast play the balls. If our forwards were regularly able to hit the line at pace, they won't get outmuscled and put on their backs by the defense. Compare our representative forwards when they play with a different hooker for Aus or NSW. It's like they grow another leg. I'm sure they're not intentionally playing to get dominated at club level. When we had Ennis here our forward pack was close to if not the best in the game most weeks. Lichaa starts with the club and almost instantly they've gone downhill. Even everyones favorite whipping boy Tolman had fans here feeling he was being short changed to not be making the NSW side when Ennis was here. I think Tolman lacks acceleration, but he used to make up for that by hitting his straps before he got the ball. With Lichaa he can't rely on a well timed pass so he never gets to pace anymore. Our backs do have acceleration so they've got the ability to speed up after catching a pass which is why I think they look better. I'm not going to go on about this anymore anyway. I think if we get a hooker into our side that can time his passes our forwards will look 20-30% as soon as they realise they can run harder and know they'll get a decent pass.



I agree with all of that and I think that Lichaa is the weak link that we need to strengthen to get things working. Even if we get the second phase play when the forwards have been stopped the second phase play is also starting from being flat footed and lacks bite. It's why we often try to go around sides rather than through them.

I'm honestly sick of going on about this. I have made reference to this for the best part of this and last season now. Prior to that I was hugely supportive of Lichaa, thinking he just needed time to get things right. For a huge part of that time people would argue that Hasler needed to free Lichaa up to run and our issues from 9 would be gone. Lichaa is free to do all the running he wants now and the same issues are here. Do we blame another coach and our forwards or do we search within our squad for a player who might turn our expensive forwards into a more dominant force. I just wonder, do we want our side to have three more below par years to give Lichaa the chance to learn the bread and butter skills of a hooker (crisp well timed passing) while he smilingly accepts compliments on his running game, or do we bite the bullet and try someone else at 9. I seriously think Lichaa has no clue that his passing skills aren't up to par. He seems to be pretty pleased with where his football skills are at from what I can see when he speaks in interviews. He basically passed the buck last year after he knew Hasler was gone and implied that he was going to deliver this year. He isn't though and I think it's time he stops having his ego fed and copped the hard truth by getting told he has to go back to basics and vastly improve his ball service. He has the physical ability to make it in the NRL, but his passing game in my opinion makes him a poor fit for an NRL side.

Not every hooker in the NRL has the most crisp passes week in week out. That's not the issue, Lichaa needs to learn when to take a step before passing as opposed to passing straight from dummy half.

My gripe with Lichaa is when we are attacking in the opposition line and wasting 3 tackles trying to give it to the forwards one out to try and score. That sort of tactic should be done once in an attacking set, it needs to create the element of surprise.

Depth is another thing, forwards aren't standing deep enough and neither is the backline to make a dent in the opposition line.

A quick play the ball can give Foran and JMK that extra few seconds to read the defensive line to make an attacking play, that was the purpose of the thread (not that they're the most creative). We need a specialist halfback as most of us have been saying, but we have to play with what we have and Pay might need to blood some younger boys from the reggies.

Mbye needs to support the forwards up the middle in case of that sneaky offload and chime into set plays in attack. He's learning the trade so I'll give him time but sometimes it's just common sense. He said it himself last night hes getting gassed hitting the ball up after his kick returns.

 

[Dogschat]

I would argue that it's cause and effect when it comes to fast play the balls. If our forwards were regularly able to hit the line at pace, they won't get outmuscled and put on their backs by the defense. Compare our representative forwards when they play with a different hooker for Aus or NSW. It's like they grow another leg. I'm sure they're not intentionally playing to get dominated at club level. When we had Ennis here our forward pack was close to if not the best in the game most weeks. Lichaa starts with the club and almost instantly they've gone downhill. Even everyones favorite whipping boy Tolman had fans here feeling he was being short changed to not be making the NSW side when Ennis was here. I think Tolman lacks acceleration, but he used to make up for that by hitting his straps before he got the ball. With Lichaa he can't rely on a well timed pass so he never gets to pace anymore. Our backs do have acceleration so they've got the ability to speed up after catching a pass which is why I think they look better. I'm not going to go on about this anymore anyway. I think if we get a hooker into our side that can time his passes our forwards will look 20-30% as soon as they realise they can run harder and know they'll get a decent pass.



I agree with all of that and I think that Lichaa is the weak link that we need to strengthen to get things working. Even if we get the second phase play when the forwards have been stopped the second phase play is also starting from being flat footed and lacks bite. It's why we often try to go around sides rather than through them.

I'm honestly sick of going on about this. I have made reference to this for the best part of this and last season now. Prior to that I was hugely supportive of Lichaa, thinking he just needed time to get things right. For a huge part of that time people would argue that Hasler needed to free Lichaa up to run and our issues from 9 would be gone. Lichaa is free to do all the running he wants now and the same issues are here. Do we blame another coach and our forwards or do we search within our squad for a player who might turn our expensive forwards into a more dominant force. I just wonder, do we want our side to have three more below par years to give Lichaa the chance to learn the bread and butter skills of a hooker (crisp well timed passing) while he smilingly accepts compliments on his running game, or do we bite the bullet and try someone else at 9. I seriously think Lichaa has no clue that his passing skills aren't up to par. He seems to be pretty pleased with where his football skills are at from what I can see when he speaks in interviews. He basically passed the buck last year after he knew Hasler was gone and implied that he was going to deliver this year. He isn't though and I think it's time he stops having his ego fed and copped the hard truth by getting told he has to go back to basics and vastly improve his ball service. He has the physical ability to make it in the NRL, but his passing game in my opinion makes him a poor fit for an NRL side.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think these people giving stick to Lichaa are looking for a scapegoat not presenting facts. So does everyone go to the game with stop watches timing Lichaa's ball release, seriously. It is not so obvious sorry. We have a team that wears the jumper but cannot claim to say proud to be a bulldog. Stop kidding yourself looking for a smoking gun in Lichaa. Our team has bigger issues, they can't tackle, can"t attack, can't kick, can't run or support play. Throw in not motivated or fit and can't catch. But all that aside they would be otherwise a good football team. Seriously this team has lost it's Mojo. Teams are lining up to play the Dogs.

 

[Alan79]

I'm over arguing the same points about this. Put simply, the best weeks I've seen our forwards have since Ennis left the club were the 6-8 weeks when Mbye and Cook were at hooker. Along with many others I put a lot of the attacking performance of forwards down to the way they're able to hit top pace and pick their line without having to worry that a pass will be accurate. In the past I looked at certain players such as Danny Buderas and wondered what the hype was with him him. In hindsight I've seen some games where he allowed some pretty ordinary forwards at newcastle play more aggressively by letting them simplify their game and just run hard. It's a simple concept to understand as far as I'm concerned. A forward that has to focus on timing his run to catch a pass won't be focused on hitting the weakest point in the line. If that same forward knows that the pass will be easy to catch when he's running at his top sped he can more easily focus on the weak points in defense.

I'm not wasting anymore time discussing this. You either choose to judge Lichaa based on 2 things

(1) The quality of his dummy half running which I haven't criticized.
Or
(2) You judge him on his passing ability.

The thing that this thread shows is that two specific groups exist based on that division. I've clearly stated that I'm in group 2. I'm happy for him to do the part of the game he has stated that he loves. But I'm of the opinion that dummy half running is a handy bonus attribute for a hooker to have, but that unless he improves the quality of his passing he's not a good hooker. Have fun with the thread. I won't keep posting here.

 

[JMac15]

I'm over arguing the same points about this. Put simply, the best weeks I've seen our forwards have since Ennis left the club were the 6-8 weeks when Mbye and Cook were at hooker. Along with many others I put a lot of the attacking performance of forwards down to the way they're able to hit top pace and pick their line without having to worry that a pass will be accurate. In the past I looked at certain players such as Danny Buderas and wondered what the hype was with him him. In hindsight I've seen some games where he allowed some pretty ordinary forwards at newcastle play more aggressively by letting them simplify their game and just run hard. It's a simple concept to understand as far as I'm concerned. A forward that has to focus on timing his run to catch a pass won't be focused on hitting the weakest point in the line. If that same forward knows that the pass will be easy to catch when he's running at his top sped he can more easily focus on the weak points in defense.

I'm not wasting anymore time discussing this. You either choose to judge Lichaa based on 2 things

(1) The quality of his dummy half running which I haven't criticized.
Or
(2) You judge him on his passing ability.

The thing that this thread shows is that two specific groups exist based on that division. I've clearly stated that I'm in group 2. I'm happy for him to do the part of the game he has stated that he loves. But I'm of the opinion that dummy half running is a handy bonus attribute for a hooker to have, but that unless he improves the quality of his passing he's not a good hooker. Have fun with the thread. I won't keep posting here.

The thread was never about Lichaa to begin with.

 

[Oatley Dog]

The thread was never about Lichaa to begin with.

Just be thankful someone doesn't bring Elliott into it......oh damn.

 

[Freakzilla]

How is it Lichaa's fault that it takes the props that long to play the ball?

 

[Mozzie]

It would also help if our forwards would actually run onto the ball..and Lichaa's passing can't be used as an excuse for that, they train together almost every day and should be able to get the timing right after spending so much time together. We're just a very static team team.

I don't agree with you on a lot of points you make but this one is right on the money. No point blaming Lichaa when the forwards are just standing there or are just walking onto passes with a flat line off attack and start a run into the defense. It seems our boys are worried that they will drop the ball. In saying all of that I do see some slow improvement but we are no where near the top sides at this stage.

 

[SweetFA]

Watch the roosters game again and take off your hate filled Lichaa glasses off for a second..

Yes he had a shit game but.....

Our forwards were always put onto their backs and took forever to play the ball. In those situations not even Cook or Smith could have darted from dummy half not even Usain Bolt could have done a better job.
When our backs brought it up out of our zone they made massive meters, because of their quick play the ball which allowed the next back to go for a quick dart.
Listen to Damian cook interview, he specifically mentioned how he was able to make those runs on the back of quick play the balls by the forwards.
You can replace lichaa with any other hooker and they wont be able to make inroads unless our forwards learn to show more urgency

You nailed it, our forwards get dominated in just about every tackle, rather fighting for a quick play the ball, they try & milk penalties, allowing the markers & a/b defenders to set & easily account for the next one out predictable hit up. It’s not all Lichaa’s fault

 

[Wolfmother]

Michael has been right about everything so far

 

[Kennelnator]

To all of the Lichaa cuzzins on the kennel patting his glock, wtf has Lichaa done since 2015?

 

[Snake]

Even if the defensive line is set you can grubber in behind. When was the last time we grubber kicked for a winger?? 2012 with Barba maybe LOL

RFM is the only one who runs good lines. We only have one strike weapon close to the line in the forwards department. And to top it all off, Foran was camped on the otherside of the field and did not link with RFM.

Shades of Desball

Sherwin to Elmasri

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Sherwin to Elmasri

People will probably hate this. I loved the chip kick from Sherwin to El Masri. However grubber kicks, hands down the best we've had in recent memory was Ben Roberts grubber to Goodwin / Morris. When he struck them clean god they were good to watch, pretty rare other than 2009 though.

 

[Mozzie]

To all of the Lichaa cuzzins on the kennel patting his glock, wtf has Lichaa done since 2015?

I'm no cuzzin but what I am saying is lets not blame one player for our crappy attacking style. Lichaa could be the best fastest dummy half in the NRL it would not make us a better team. We need improvement across the whole team. The only the Morris boys and maybe Mbye are playing consistent footy but I am still hopeful we can get it together. I am happy with most of the names on paper they just have to play to their potential.