Stat dive - defence analysis

[flamebouyant]

Salmon gets a shit go on here, but he goes hard in defense and obviously is buying in big time to the defensive structures. He made 40 odd tackles yesterday.

Agreed. That try he had disallowed was bullshit too! He is all effort.

 

[flamebouyant]

41 tackles 0 missed.

Fuck im glad I put this negative gronk on ignore.

 

[B-Train]

Those stats don't surprise me as the eye test has shown how great our line speed has been, how good our scramble is and the resolve they have in defending for each other. It's also apparent how little yardage we give up each set..

Still, no one would have expected us to be near the top of all of these categories after being the worst last season and conceding over 30 points a game for the past few years.

A massive amount of credit goes out to Ciraldo for turning things around so much in just one season.

 

[Pottz]

Very interesting read. I was looking at the post game stats past night and I couldn't get my head around it because I thought that we were by far the better defensive team! Yet newcastle lead tackle breaks 35-19, and we missed many more tackles, 35-19 then newcastle. It didn't add up. However, we made an average of q0m more per set then them. This article tells us why, and how we were far better defensively.

It’s also because missed tackles are a completely misleading stat. They don’t reflect the impact of a missed tackle on bringing the attacker down, or slowing him down enough for other defenders to take him. This is why the nonsense about Mahoney’s number of missed tackles drives me so crazy, just watch how many times he’s the first to hit the attacker, even if he doesn’t hang on he does more than enough to make it easy pickings for the other tacklers.

 

[Benno Bulldog]

Those stats don't surprise me as the eye test has shown how great our line speed has been, how good our scramble is and the resolve they have in defending for each other. It's also apparent how little yardage we give up each set..

Still, no one would have expected us to be near the top of all of these categories after being the worst last season and conceding over 30 points a game for the past few years.

A massive amount of credit goes out to Ciraldo for turning things around so much in just one season.

The guy has balls coming to a club like this reshuffling the staff essentially recreating system, sacking 9 players, recruiting the “utilities” and pulling off our best efforts against top opposition in opening rounds.

 

[B-Train]

The guy has balls coming to a club like this reshuffling the staff essentially recreating system, sacking 9 players, recruiting the “utilities” and pulling off our best efforts against top opposition in opening rounds.

I was never against the utility purchases as lots of teams have been playing smaller locks and props for years for defensive reasons. I was one of the few that liked the Mann signing from day one as he'd played that smaller lock role at Newcastle before and been really good. He's a true competitor which I knew our fans would appreciate once they saw him play every week in our colours..

But it's what Ciraldo has gotten out of other players like Mahoney, Burton even Fox etc to improve their defence which has been most impressive. It's night and day between this year and last year and it once again shows that defence is a mindset, all about effort and communication and if everyone buys in to cover for each other, then you can turn things around..

 

[Pottz]

I was never against the utility purchases as lots of teams have been playing smaller locks and props for years for defensive reasons. I was one of the few that liked the Mann signing from day one as he'd played that smaller lock role at Newcastle before and been really good. He's a true competitor which I knew our fans would appreciate once they saw him play every week in our colours..

But it's what Ciraldo has gotten out of other players like Mahoney, Burton even Fox etc to improve their defence which has been most impressive. It's night and day between this year and last year and it once again shows that defence is a mindset, all about effort and communication and if everyone buys in to cover for each other, then you can turn things around..

Spot on. Look at Fox - how many miracle intercepts did he go for in our defensive 20m last year out of either desperation or just not knowing what to do? Has he even done that once this year?

 

[B-Train]

Spot on. Look at Fox - how many miracle intercepts did he go for in our defensive 20m last year out of either desperation or just not knowing what to do? Has he even done that once this year?

Seeing him jam in and smash a few Newcastle players was awesome. Even Burton, who still makes some bad reads at times and did for Newcastle's first try, is tacking way harder and using his body and showing more desperation and effort throughout the game..

 

[Pottz]

Seeing him jam in and smash a few Newcastle players was awesome. Even Burton, who still makes some bad reads at times and did for Newcastle's first try, is tacking way harder and using his body and showing more desperation and effort throughout the game..

Yep, doesn’t hurt that Fox looks like he is on every type of steroid either, how can a guy that bulky up top run that fast?

The other defensive effort that is just out of this world is Kikau. Makes it his personal mission to lead every kick chase and rarely misses, imagine the sound of him running at you if you’re standing under a Burton kick, that is nightmare stuff. I cannot believe how lucky we are to have Kikau at the peak of his career.

 

[B-Train]

Yep, doesn’t hurt that Fox looks like he is on every type of steroid either, how can a guy that bulky up top run that fast?

The other defensive effort that is just out of this world is Kikau. Makes it his personal mission to lead every kick chase and rarely misses, imagine the sound of him running at you if you’re standing under a Burton kick, that is nightmare stuff. I cannot believe how lucky we are to have Kikau at the peak of his career.

Yeah Kikau has been inspirational this season. He's playing like a man on a mission every game and it's setting the tone for everyone else to follow..

Fox has a tonne of padding after his shoulder injuries so it makes him look like Robocop out there..

 

[obje]

It’s also because missed tackles are a completely misleading stat. They don’t reflect the impact of a missed tackle on bringing the attacker down, or slowing him down enough for other defenders to take him. This is why the nonsense about Mahoney’s number of missed tackles drives me so crazy, just watch how many times he’s the first to hit the attacker, even if he doesn’t hang on he does more than enough to make it easy pickings for the other tacklers.

That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking there's gotta be something up with that stat, to have the ~3rd best defence but such high missed tackles couldn't align unless it's actually part of the defence. If players know they can't make the tackle, but know they can slow the player down and someone else will come in, or they don't think committing to the tackle is the right move for some reason, then you'll get high missed tackles and still be solid defensively.

 

[alwaysthesun]

It’s not a buy in when you sack all the players that can’t and get the ones that can.

We didnt sack everybody from the last year or two

 

[alwaysthesun]

I have also noticed a very powerful tackling technique lead by Mahoney but executed by many players. They attack the legs low with the shoulder, but with incredible speed and force, that drops the attacking player to the ground very quickly. Then very consistently, there is a defender over the top that comes down on the player hard as they drop, earning the right to hold them down a split second longer.

This happens so often, it is an obvious weapon of a technique that works effectively on big bodies in fast motion, killing their momentum. I generally have not noticed other teams or our previous side from last year do this with any consistency and speed like we have been this year.

Am I seeing things, or do you see this happening too?

Penrith.. but we know who initially implemented those techniques over there..

 

[Pottz]

That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking there's gotta be something up with that stat, to have the ~3rd best defence but such high missed tackles couldn't align unless it's actually part of the defence. If players know they can't make the tackle, but know they can slow the player down and someone else will come in, or they don't think committing to the tackle is the right move for some reason, then you'll get high missed tackles and still be solid defensively.

Exactly. According to the NRL a missed tackle is when the "defensive player does not bring player to ground or complete the tackle". So I think that means if say Mahoney hits an attacker first and slows him down but falls off or doesn't jump back into the tackle before the referee calls held then he cops a missed tackle even though he's maybe been the main reason for the attacker actually being stopped.

 

[Powerslide]

The two biggest reasons our defence has improved is 1 players buying in and two that the structures implemented require fitness. We didn’t have that last year.

I seem to hear every player and coach from other teams talking about being connected, when things are working. That is big in the dogs too, the boys are loving what they are doing in D. Other teams like cowboys, treat D like what you do to pass the time while waiting to get the ball again.


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[alwaysthesun]

The two biggest reasons our defence has improved is 1 players buying in and two that the structures implemented require fitness. We didn’t have that last year.

I seem to hear every player and coach from other teams talking about being connected, when things are working. That is big in the dogs too, the boys are loving what they are doing in D. Other teams like cowboys, treat D like what you do to pass the time while waiting to get the ball again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You can tell that our players are more confident/mentally tough.. in previous seasons you just knew if we had to defend back to back sets, or an error, that a try from the opposition was coming.. and in many games against top teams we could barely last till half time before the boys were just trying to hang in.

 

[flamebouyant]

It’s also because missed tackles are a completely misleading stat. They don’t reflect the impact of a missed tackle on bringing the attacker down, or slowing him down enough for other defenders to take him. This is why the nonsense about Mahoney’s number of missed tackles drives me so crazy, just watch how many times he’s the first to hit the attacker, even if he doesn’t hang on he does more than enough to make it easy pickings for the other tacklers.

I agree. But it's still a defensive statistic.

 

[Aristidiz]

Everyone has bought into the defensive structures, the senior guys we have recruited have had a positive influence and young guns like Hughes are proving their worth, great signs ahead, its onwards and upwards from here.

 

[The__GM]

Was interesting to just go back and look at our team list from the corresponding Round 7 clash, we lost 30-4 against the Eels, this time last year.

Only 6 carry over players, and Sutton/ Preston are currently injured. Lots of minutes for a lot of average NRL players, a fair few who aren't in the league anymore (Davey, TPJ, Okunbor, Topine).

The defensive turnaround is personnel driven as much as it is the coaching staff/ systems/ fitness.

 

[Dyldog]

I’ve also noticed we are getting more numbers in tackles and they are getting to the ball runner quicker giving him less time. Ciraldo would crunch these stats every week.

Smaller, fitter and a more mobile pack getting off the line quick not allowing big men to get momentum.. I like it and it’s working.