Opinion Would you wait til 2024 if we can get Todd Payten ?

Papa Joe

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Now that Ciraldo has knocked Tigers back, I'm sure they will consider Todd Payten now, my preference as our coach.
 

Family Guy

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Now that Ciraldo has knocked Tigers back, I'm sure they will consider Todd Payten now, my preference as our coach.
If Ciraldo knocked them back, because they're a basket case, why would Payten consider them. I can't see him going near them

Wouldn't mind Payten tbh.
 

Papa Joe

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If Ciraldo knocked them back, because they're a basket case, why would Payten consider them. I can't see him going near them

Wouldn't mind Payten tbh.
My only fears are that he's a premiership winner at the Tigers under Sheens & Sheens also gave him his first coaching gig when Payten won his first premiership as a coach in the lower grades in 2012.
 

Howie B

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My only fears are that he's a premiership winner at the Tigers under Sheens & Sheens also gave him his first coaching gig when Payten won his first premiership as a coach in the lower grades in 2012.
Who farkin cares ???

He is under contract at a top 4 team. He doesn’t need a job.

But you reckon the fact that Sheens coached him 17 years ago will ensure he gets out of his current contract and rejects a contract with us that does not exist to coach a team that’s a basket case.

There needs to be a prerequisite of an IQ above 3 to post on here ffs
 

Papa Joe

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There needs to be a prerequisite of an IQ above 3 to post on here ffs
So you want to ban yourself from posting on here then, according to your prerequisite....

If only we were all as clever as you -
damn, I'm so jealous.
 

Dan2

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Not that I want him but thinking of a young coach whom is rated in the game but is well under the radar - Dean Young. Could he be on Gus list?
 

bradtalo

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I Agree with you 100% Bradtalo & I see Payten as the next Super Coach.

I Posted this in Rumours on the "New Coach & Assistant" thread back on the 2nd of June.

-

How I'm Reading It As Of Today (2nd Of June)

it's been almost 3 weeks since Baz left and we are all thinking why is this taking so long to appoint our new coach.

Important Points To Consider-

1. Gus said publicly that he was shocked by Baz decision to quit, so if Gus quickly appoints someone else it would show that Gus was preparing to axe Baz anyways - not that Gus gives a shit too much about what others think.

2. There is a lot of detail involved before you finalise a deal with a coach, including the negotiation of support staff that an incoming coach would request and so on.

3. If the coach you are chasing is currently employed elsewhere, then the timing of the announcement may be on their terms.

My Thoughts Moving Forward-

1. If we do not announce Shane Flanagan as our new coach by our next game V's Eels, then I don't think he is the one as he is probably the one candidate that could relinquish his current role effective immediate (at the Dragqueens). The same could be said for Paul Green, Jim Dymock, Geoff Toovey & other out of contract coaches.

Apart from Gus not wanting him, there would be no other reason not to have any of these above coaches appointed in the next fortnight IMO.

You could probably add Kristian Woolf into this category as well because I see no other reason for not announcing him as our next coach if he is the man.
He has long expressed a desire to coach in the NRL and it wouldn't come as a shock to his current club. I don't follow the ESL so I cant comment on his coaching.

Flannagan - If it's not soon, then it never will be IMO. Lot's of pluses for Flanno, but we have one big point that goes against him - his son.
An old boss of mine got very upset with me when I employed one of my supervisor's sisters. He said it is very dangerous as when you have an issue with one, you have an issue with both. It won't be any different here, & as Kyle is borderline 1st grade, you'd bet there will be issues.

2. If our wait goes beyond the next fortnight, it clearly means that Gus's man currently has another role where he wants to exit in the right manner without causing too much upheaval in his current position at his current club.

We play the Panthers for the second time this year this upcoming Friday, so if it were to be Ciraldo it could happen early next week OR when Penrith have the bye before Origin 3.

If the announcement comes immediately after Origin then I believe it will be either Fitler or Ciraldo.

Ciraldo - He seems to be the most promoted Assistant coach in the game, similar to Craig Fitzgibbon. He is unproven, but I see more upside in him than most of the others & apparently works very well with Gus and you know Gus won't have it any other way. IMO, he is in Gus's final 3.

Fitler - Not proven at Club level and IMO would be a huge risk. Furthermore of all the candidates, I see Fitler as the biggest Anti Antything Bulldogs there is. Also, he has the best combination of jobs in the game, why replace that with a 16 hour a day, 7 day a week job? It makes no sense IMO.

Madge - If the winning candidate is Madge (and I hope to dear God that it isn't) it will happen weeks after the Tigers sack him or at the years end.
I am hopeful though that Gus isn't stupid enough to sack the 16th place coach in favour of replacing him with the 15th place coach... That's just Dumb.

IF WE WAIT TILL SEPTEMBER -

To me, this clearly means that our next coach is a current head coach elsewhere.
IMO these candidates would only include Ricky Stuart, Todd Payten & perhaps with less of a chance Justin Hoolbrook.

Bellamy, Hasler, O'Brien, Cleary, Robinson, Fitzgibbon, Walters, Demetriou, Arthur, Brown, Griffin & Bennett just don't make sense right now & IMO won't happen.

Ricky Stuart - Currently contracted until the end of the 2023 season.

Interestingly it was reported around a week and a half ago on the local news down here in Canberra that the Raiders had offered Ricky a 2 year extension for which he responded to by saying he will wait until the end of the year to enter negotiations.
This has me worried big time. Why would a coach with a struggling side in the comfort of being in his own home town knock back securing his future for a further 2 years. This announcement sprung up only a week after Baz left, telling me that the Raiders may be concerned about their coach leaving.
I hope to God Gus does not Hire Ricky because of their great relationship. He will get us up for 2 years & then it will be back to square one as his players get sick of him very quickly, just like the current squad he has now.

Todd Payten - Currently contracted until the end of the 2023 season.
IMO, Todd is the best current young coach currently in the NRL.
He is a straight shooter who doesn't take crap and certainly knows how to improve a footy team - Just look at what he did at the Warriors & now at the Cows.
If it were up to me, Todd would be our man as I see him as the next supercoach.

Justin Hoolbrook - Currently contracted until the end of the 2024 season.
IMO, the least likely of these 3 options as he has yet to truly prove himself in the NRL and still has a further 2 years after tis year on his current contract. Watching his press conferences recently have reminded me of watching Baz all over again - He has no answers & we don't want that again.

IF Gus is going to hire one of these contracted guys, it will confirm the basis to his comments when he said that he is looking forward to having a coach in place by September.
How he does this is by simply following the blue print that Greenberg took when he hired Hasler 1 year in advance for the season after his current contract would expire and announce that current Interim Mick Potter would remain as head coach until he arrived.
We all know that the situation at his current club would become untenable & they would severe ties a year early, just as Hasler did.

MY PICK

TODD PAYTEN
If it were me making the decision and he was willing to negotiate a way out of his current deal, I'd hire Todd Payten.
I really like what I have seen from him in his short coaching career as well as having great success coaching the lower grades.
He won't take shit, but is still young enough to understand & interact with young players and I also see him as a coach who has adapted & understands the game of today.


THE 3 IN THE FRAME - In my opinion Gus's Frame If we don't appoint Flanagan in the next fortnight, but I could be way off.

- Cameron Ciraldo
- Ricky Stuart
- Todd Payten
Thank you Papa Joe. A very interesting read your take on this. I 100% agree with you also in everything you said and that Payten is the next super coach. No-one has achieved what he's done recently and he's done it with TWO average rosters. One would be enough. Your bit about Ricky Stuart scares me too but we have to believe Gus is smarter than that. That would seem a desperation move by Gus too and he would know it.

You came to this realisation all about Payten sooner than me. Only a couple of weeks ago I was still hoping and confident we would be signing Flanagan but the longer it's dragged on I just couldn't understand if it was Flanagan why Gus wouldn't announce it now. There's no reason not too. It doesn't make sense.

It's frustrating when Gus keeps saying he's not in a hurry when there's 2 other clubs competing for the best coaches even though they're both shit but money and opportunity can talk especially for desperate people like Flanagan. I seriously believe Gus has more brains than to hire Fittler. Fittler goes against what Gus has said publicly we need. Gus would also have intimate inside knowledge that Fittler is nothing special.

Gus has publicly backed Payten twice now on issues. He obviously has respect for Payten's opinion. If Gus pulls off signing Payten it will be a masterstroke and Gus would know that too. He would secretly love the admiration he'd achieve from such a move (a bit like when he surprised everyone by signing Kikau but much bigger). Gus says he doesn't care what the media says about him and to a certain extent that's true but he has a huge ego and loves being labelled the smartest man in the game. Who wouldn't ?

If I were a betting man I'd be putting my money on Payten to be announced as our coach for 2024 and I'd then double up on him getting an early release by the Cows for 2023.

This September if Gus has to announce "something" it may be that Potter has been extended. Payten's signing will follow as soon as it can be made public. If Payten then gets an early release Potter becomes assistant coach by default.
 
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bradtalo

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He's had a good year, he's hardly a top tier coach yet for us to basically forget about a year (2023) to sign him up. Maybe the cowboys release him for 23, maybe they dig their heels in and force him to stay. There's plenty of examples of coaches who get good results for a year - our own Kevin Moore, Anthony Siebold. Don't read too much into what Gus says, has he said anyone is a bad coach - he rates Madge, Shitler, Payten amongst others.
It's not just 1 year though. Payten was successful when he took over at the Warriors. They were playing shit before he took over and they went to shit again after he left. Now this year, most people expected the Cows to be competing for the spoon but they're a top 4 team with what was an average roster. Players no-one had heard of last year are now playing State of Origin. He's been successful with 2 NRL clubs with average rosters. Bennett couldn't do it with 1 (Newcastle). It has to be more than a fluke.
 

bradtalo

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We’ve already had a coach from Temora.
It ended in tears.

Also, pretty unlikely Potter would agree to one year. He’ll either not take the job at all if he’s offered it or he’ll sign for a minimum of two years.

And I don’t believe that coaches are bound by the November rule that players are. Trent Barrett signed for us in July 2020 when he was working at Penrith and Des Hasler signed with us in October, immediately after winning a GF with Manly.
Thanks DinkumDog. Yes I wasn't sure about the rule on the signing of coaches so that's great. With Mounties Potter would be on less than a hundred K. It wasn't even a full time job I read. As an NRL coach the minimum is 400k. That's a pretty big incentive to sign for 1 year if that's what the club is offering. It he agree to the caretaker role for less than a year it wouldn't be a stretch to extend that for another 1 year only.
 

bradtalo

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Now that Ciraldo has knocked Tigers back, I'm sure they will consider Todd Payten now, my preference as our coach.
They'll want someone straight away as Kimmorley isn't having any impact. Tigers aren't smart enough to sign someone then hope for an early release. Payten wouldn't be stupid enough or desperate enough to take that role. I reckon they'll go for Flanagan or John Morris. Morris played for them too remember.
 

Papa Joe

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Thank you Papa Joe. A very interesting read your take on this. I 100% agree with you also in everything you said and that Payten is the next super coach. No-one has achieved what he's done recently and he's done it with TWO average rosters. One would be enough. Your bit about Ricky Stuart scares me too but we have to believe Gus is smarter than that. That would seem a desperation move by Gus too and he would know it.

You came to this realisation all about Payten sooner than me. Only a couple of weeks ago I was still hoping and confident we would be signing Flanagan but the longer it's dragged on I just couldn't understand if it was Flanagan why Gus wouldn't announce it now. There's no reason not too. It doesn't make sense.

It's frustrating when Gus keeps saying he's not in a hurry when there's 2 other clubs competing for the best coaches even though they're both shit but money and opportunity can talk especially for desperate people like Flanagan. I seriously believe Gus has more brains than to hire Fittler. Fittler goes against what Gus has said publicly we need. Gus would also have intimate inside knowledge that Fittler is nothing special.

Gus has publicly backed Payten twice now on issues. He obviously has respect for Payten's opinion. If Gus pulls off signing Payten it will be a masterstroke and Gus would know that too. He would secretly love the admiration he'd achieve from such a move (a bit like when he surprised everyone by signing Kikau but much bigger). Gus says he doesn't care what the media says about him and to a certain extent that's true but he has a huge ego and loves being labelled the smartest man in the game. Who wouldn't ?

If I were a betting man I'd be putting my money on Payten to be announced as our coach for 2024 and I'd then double up on him getting an early release by the Cows for 2023.

This September if Gus has to announce "something" it may be that Potter has been extended. Payten's signing will follow as soon as it can be made public. If Payten then gets an early release Potter becomes assistant coach by default.
Exactly how I'm Reading It too.
 

doggieaaron

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Buzz is clearly reading the lennel again has in shoosh a team in bottom 5 making enquires for payten
 

2012

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We stole Des once, why not steal Todd
 

c-b-b

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It's not just 1 year though. Payten was successful when he took over at the Warriors. They were playing shit before he took over and they went to shit again after he left. Now this year, most people expected the Cows to be competing for the spoon but they're a top 4 team with what was an average roster. Players no-one had heard of last year are now playing State of Origin. He's been successful with 2 NRL clubs with average rosters. Bennett couldn't do it with 1 (Newcastle). It has to be more than a fluke.
He won 6 games from 14 at the warriors, maybe that was better than who he replaced but hardly a huge success.

No doubt he’s done a good job this year but he needs to repeat it and also get somewhere in the finals before I rate him highly but that’s just my opinion.
 

Dognacious

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Why would cows let him go if hes working out there? And what's this nonsense he also did well at Warriors. Nobody has done well at Warriors. No from me.
 

Dognacious

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Gus is throwing curveballs. Pretty certain the replacement coach is already signed.
I think hes giving Potter a shot at the job and waiting to see. So far there has been enough of an improvement to at least give it more time to see. If we jag a few more wins in the near future i believe Potter will get a 12 month contract and then longer after that if it works out.
 

Howie B

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I think hes giving Potter a shot at the job and waiting to see. So far there has been enough of an improvement to at least give it more time to see. If we jag a few more wins in the near future i believe Potter will get a 12 month contract and then longer after that if it works out.
Yep agreed

One thing is for sure. We won’t be making an offer to a coach only for him to reject it publicly like Ciraldo did with tigers and Woolf did with the warriors. It’s a terrible look.
 

BELMORE

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Todd Payten getting sacked was the word last yr
 
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