Opinion Would you wait til 2024 if we can get Todd Payten ?

[bradtalo]

A few people have asked the question '"Why do we have to go with a coach who'se available at the moment" ? We don't. Potter could be extended for another year and a lot of people are pretty happy with him at the moment.

Gus stated the other day he wants to make our club attractive to a potential coach. He doesn't want a potential coach to reject us because the job seems way too hard. If Gus is telling the truth it would seem to rule out Flanagan as he's already publicly stated he wants the job. He's desperate and we don't need to impress him one bit. I think if we were signing Flano we would have done so already and announced it by now. Why wouldn't we ? Nothing to hide there.

In the media report today about Burton not taking up his option he speaks about him wanting Ciraldo. This may help push the case for Ciraldo if the club thinks it will help keep Burto but should even our best player/s be picking the coach ?

Do we really need to impress Fittler when he said last year he'd like to coach the f..king Tigers LOL ? Don't think so. He'd do it as long as the money was really good.

I have a sneaking suspicion Gus' real target (and for 2024) is Payten. No wonder he's in no big hurry. Payten's likely to win coach of the year this year. He's done well with both the Warriors AND the Cowboys. He's one of the few coaches on the way up. He's not frightened to tell players how it is including established stars like Jason Taumalolo. Gus came out and publicly backed Payten on his stance with Taumalolo. Gus also publicly backed Payten when he said lower teams don't get the rub of the green with referee decisions (had an argument with Gallen over it).

It's obvious Gus has a really high opinion of Payten. Has to be much higher than his opinion of Flanagan and Fittler. Payten is experienced too just like Gus said we need. He has that over Ciraldo and others. Payten has a strong relationship with Tim Sheens and there is talk the Tigers might chase him but it seems their preference is Ciraldo. Payten would be mad to go from a team like the Cowboys to the basket case Tigers also. If we're prepared to wait another year and we show potential this year we can score a more proven NRL coach in Payten. If announced at the end of this season who knows, maybe the Cows will want to move on Payten early knowing he will be leaving the following year anyway.

 

[bradyk]

If we were to sign a coach coming off contract for 2024 after November this year their current club would most likely get rid of them early (like Tigers and Cleary a few years ago). You can't have a coach that's guarenteed to be leaving in 1 years time being involved with recruitment, development, etc. That's also why coaches get early extensions.

 

[bradtalo]

If we were to sign a coach coming off contract for 2024 after November this year their current club would most likely get rid of them early (like Tigers and Cleary a few years ago). You can't have a coach that's guarenteed to be leaving in 1 years time being involved with recruitment, development, etc. That's also why coaches get early extensions.

Exactly. They need even more stability around coaches usually than they do players. This could be an extra good move if we sign him at the end of this season.

 

[The DoggFather]

2023 Potter
2024 Bellamy

FTW

 

[senshidog]

Gus is throwing curveballs. Pretty certain the replacement coach is already signed.

 

[spaced_monkey]

If Potter keeps the team humming and is happy to play the temporary role, then maybe sign him now for 12 months with caveats in the clubs favour if/when the right coach becomes available

 

[ILiveForDib]

2023 Potter
2024 Bellamy

FTW

2023 potter is the best bet instead of buying some untested nrl coach or long timer who use to be good. 24 Bellamy indent us on the trophy.

 

[Malla]

No way Payton leaves cowboys. He’s there for a decade easy

 

[bradtalo]

No way Payton leaves cowboys. He’s there for a decade easy

MONEY TALKS.

The Cows haven't even started discussing extending him yet. Will soon apparently. They're crazy. Not sure they'll offer him as much as we would. I'm sure if Gus is interested he would have put feelers out to his manager telling him it's worth going to market and not re-signing now.

Payten has now done a good job with not 1 but 2 struggling NRL rosters. Not even some of the great coaches like Robinson and Bennett have done that. Even Bellamy was blessed with great players.

He'd have to be one candidate better than all the other options - even than Flanagan potentially (besides Bellamy who is already signed long term). We could hire Flanagan for 1 year maybe if we had to. He's desperate. I think though if we signed and "announced" Payten this November for 2024 then there's a real chance they would let him go early.

 

[Typical dog]

MONEY TALKS.

The Cows haven't even started discussing extending him yet. Will soon apparently. They're crazy. Not sure they'll offer him as much as we would. I'm sure if Gus is interested he would have put feelers out to his manager telling him it's worth going to market and not re-signing now.

Payten has now done a good job with not 1 but 2 struggling NRL rosters. Not even some of the great coaches like Robinson and Bennett have done that. Even Bellamy was blessed with great players.

He'd have to be one candidate better than all the other options - even than Flanagan potentially (besides Bellamy who is already signed long term). We could hire Flanagan for 1 year maybe if we had to. He's desperate. I think though if we signed and "announced" Payten this November for 2024 then there's a real chance they would let him go early.

If we sign Payten, will he be Fittlers attacking or defensive coach?

 

[the12thman]

2023 Potter
2024 Bellamy

FTW

 

[B-Train]

If he's taken them from the bottom 4 to top 4 in one season, he's well compensated and they're set up well long term with lots of promising youngsters and now Origin players, then why would he leave?

 

[Kempsey Dog]

No way Payton leaves cowboys. He’s there for a decade easy

I can't exactly remember the reason why he didn't want the warriors job... I recall hearing something about not being good for his family.
If his family wanted to move to Sydney would be the only hope anyone had of getting him out of NQLD

 

[enoughsaid]

I can't exactly remember the reason why he didn't want the warriors job... I recall hearing something about not being good for his family.
If his family wanted to move to Sydney would be the only hope anyone had of getting him out of NQLD

pretty sure his wife wanted to be close to her sick dad
With international border closed at the time with new Zealand

Uncertainty over Warriors future impacting on coaching appointment

Warriors interim coach Todd Payten has revealed he was offered the job full-time but has decided not to take up the opportunity.

www.nrl.com

 

[bradtalo]

Don't be surprised if Gus makes him an offer too good to refuse $$$ wise. Here he'd have players like Burton, JAC, Mahoney, Kikau, TPJ. He'd have almost a full salary cap to sign whoever he wants for 2024. Can chose his own 1 and 7. Might bring Drinkwater with him. A new multi million dollar Centre of Excellence in future. He was raised in Temora (near Wagga Wagga) NSW and lived a long time in Sydney during his playing days for the Roosters and Tigers. Family should be in NSW.

 

[Alan79]

I tend to lean towards judging after we make signings. Most opinions in here aren't worth squat to the club's decision making process.

I'm a bit off the game at present though. Nice that we've had a couple of wins, but the 6 again rule really has me thinking that refs have way too much influence on the game and I just don't enjoy seeing a game where teams can be shut out by a match official.

 

[c-b-b]

He's had a good year, he's hardly a top tier coach yet for us to basically forget about a year (2023) to sign him up. Maybe the cowboys release him for 23, maybe they dig their heels in and force him to stay. There's plenty of examples of coaches who get good results for a year - our own Kevin Moore, Anthony Siebold. Don't read too much into what Gus says, has he said anyone is a bad coach - he rates Madge, Shitler, Payten amongst others.

 

[Dan2]

Given Payton has close ties to the Tigers it would more 5hen likey that if he left the Cowboys it would be for there. Given his current situation he would be silly to move away.

 

[DinkumDog]

He was raised in Temora

We’ve already had a coach from Temora.
It ended in tears.

Also, pretty unlikely Potter would agree to one year. He’ll either not take the job at all if he’s offered it or he’ll sign for a minimum of two years.

And I don’t believe that coaches are bound by the November rule that players are. Trent Barrett signed for us in July 2020 when he was working at Penrith and Des Hasler signed with us in October, immediately after winning a GF with Manly.

 

[Papa Joe]

A few people have asked the question '"Why do we have to go with a coach who'se available at the moment" ? We don't. Potter could be extended for another year and a lot of people are pretty happy with him at the moment.

Gus stated the other day he wants to make our club attractive to a potential coach. He doesn't want a potential coach to reject us because the job seems way too hard. If Gus is telling the truth it would seem to rule out Flanagan as he's already publicly stated he wants the job. He's desperate and we don't need to impress him one bit. I think if we were signing Flano we would have done so already and announced it by now. Why wouldn't we ? Nothing to hide there.

In the media report today about Burton not taking up his option he speaks about him wanting Ciraldo. This may help push the case for Ciraldo if the club thinks it will help keep Burto but should even our best player/s be picking the coach ?

Do we really need to impress Fittler when he said last year he'd like to coach the f..king Tigers LOL ? Don't think so. He'd do it as long as the money was really good.

I have a sneaking suspicion Gus' real target (and for 2024) is Payten. No wonder he's in no big hurry. Payten's likely to win coach of the year this year. He's done well with both the Warriors AND the Cowboys. He's one of the few coaches on the way up. He's not frightened to tell players how it is including established stars like Jason Taumalolo. Gus came out and publicly backed Payten on his stance with Taumalolo. Gus also publicly backed Payten when he said lower teams don't get the rub of the green with referee decisions (had an argument with Gallen over it).

It's obvious Gus has a really high opinion of Payten. Has to be much higher than his opinion of Flanagan and Fittler. Payten is experienced too just like Gus said we need. He has that over Ciraldo and others. Payten has a strong relationship with Tim Sheens and there is talk the Tigers might chase him but it seems their preference is Ciraldo. Payten would be mad to go from a team like the Cowboys to the basket case Tigers also. If we're prepared to wait another year and we show potential this year we can score a more proven NRL coach in Payten. If announced at the end of this season who knows, maybe the Cows will want to move on Payten early knowing he will be leaving the following year anyway.

I Agree with you 100% Bradtalo & I see Payten as the next Super Coach.

I Posted this in Rumours on the "New Coach & Assistant" thread back on the 2nd of June.

-

How I'm Reading It As Of Today (2nd Of June)

it's been almost 3 weeks since Baz left and we are all thinking why is this taking so long to appoint our new coach.

Important Points To Consider-

1. Gus said publicly that he was shocked by Baz decision to quit, so if Gus quickly appoints someone else it would show that Gus was preparing to axe Baz anyways - not that Gus gives a shit too much about what others think.

2. There is a lot of detail involved before you finalise a deal with a coach, including the negotiation of support staff that an incoming coach would request and so on.

3. If the coach you are chasing is currently employed elsewhere, then the timing of the announcement may be on their terms.

My Thoughts Moving Forward-

1. If we do not announce Shane Flanagan as our new coach by our next game V's Eels, then I don't think he is the one as he is probably the one candidate that could relinquish his current role effective immediate (at the Dragqueens). The same could be said for Paul Green, Jim Dymock, Geoff Toovey & other out of contract coaches.

Apart from Gus not wanting him, there would be no other reason not to have any of these above coaches appointed in the next fortnight IMO.

You could probably add Kristian Woolf into this category as well because I see no other reason for not announcing him as our next coach if he is the man.
He has long expressed a desire to coach in the NRL and it wouldn't come as a shock to his current club. I don't follow the ESL so I cant comment on his coaching.

Flannagan - If it's not soon, then it never will be IMO. Lot's of pluses for Flanno, but we have one big point that goes against him - his son.
An old boss of mine got very upset with me when I employed one of my supervisor's sisters. He said it is very dangerous as when you have an issue with one, you have an issue with both. It won't be any different here, & as Kyle is borderline 1st grade, you'd bet there will be issues.

2. If our wait goes beyond the next fortnight, it clearly means that Gus's man currently has another role where he wants to exit in the right manner without causing too much upheaval in his current position at his current club.

We play the Panthers for the second time this year this upcoming Friday, so if it were to be Ciraldo it could happen early next week OR when Penrith have the bye before Origin 3.

If the announcement comes immediately after Origin then I believe it will be either Fitler or Ciraldo.

Ciraldo - He seems to be the most promoted Assistant coach in the game, similar to Craig Fitzgibbon. He is unproven, but I see more upside in him than most of the others & apparently works very well with Gus and you know Gus won't have it any other way. IMO, he is in Gus's final 3.

Fitler - Not proven at Club level and IMO would be a huge risk. Furthermore of all the candidates, I see Fitler as the biggest Anti Antything Bulldogs there is. Also, he has the best combination of jobs in the game, why replace that with a 16 hour a day, 7 day a week job? It makes no sense IMO.

Madge - If the winning candidate is Madge (and I hope to dear God that it isn't) it will happen weeks after the Tigers sack him or at the years end.
I am hopeful though that Gus isn't stupid enough to sack the 16th place coach in favour of replacing him with the 15th place coach... That's just Dumb.

IF WE WAIT TILL SEPTEMBER -

To me, this clearly means that our next coach is a current head coach elsewhere.
IMO these candidates would only include Ricky Stuart, Todd Payten & perhaps with less of a chance Justin Hoolbrook.

Bellamy, Hasler, O'Brien, Cleary, Robinson, Fitzgibbon, Walters, Demetriou, Arthur, Brown, Griffin & Bennett just don't make sense right now & IMO won't happen.

Ricky Stuart - Currently contracted until the end of the 2023 season.

Interestingly it was reported around a week and a half ago on the local news down here in Canberra that the Raiders had offered Ricky a 2 year extension for which he responded to by saying he will wait until the end of the year to enter negotiations.
This has me worried big time. Why would a coach with a struggling side in the comfort of being in his own home town knock back securing his future for a further 2 years. This announcement sprung up only a week after Baz left, telling me that the Raiders may be concerned about their coach leaving.
I hope to God Gus does not Hire Ricky because of their great relationship. He will get us up for 2 years & then it will be back to square one as his players get sick of him very quickly, just like the current squad he has now.

Todd Payten - Currently contracted until the end of the 2023 season.
IMO, Todd is the best current young coach currently in the NRL.
He is a straight shooter who doesn't take crap and certainly knows how to improve a footy team - Just look at what he did at the Warriors & now at the Cows.
If it were up to me, Todd would be our man as I see him as the next supercoach.

Justin Hoolbrook - Currently contracted until the end of the 2024 season.
IMO, the least likely of these 3 options as he has yet to truly prove himself in the NRL and still has a further 2 years after tis year on his current contract. Watching his press conferences recently have reminded me of watching Baz all over again - He has no answers & we don't want that again.

IF Gus is going to hire one of these contracted guys, it will confirm the basis to his comments when he said that he is looking forward to having a coach in place by September.
How he does this is by simply following the blue print that Greenberg took when he hired Hasler 1 year in advance for the season after his current contract would expire and announce that current Interim Mick Potter would remain as head coach until he arrived.
We all know that the situation at his current club would become untenable & they would severe ties a year early, just as Hasler did.

MY PICK

TODD PAYTEN
If it were me making the decision and he was willing to negotiate a way out of his current deal, I'd hire Todd Payten.
I really like what I have seen from him in his short coaching career as well as having great success coaching the lower grades.
He won't take shit, but is still young enough to understand & interact with young players and I also see him as a coach who has adapted & understands the game of today.


THE 3 IN THE FRAME - In my opinion Gus's Frame If we don't appoint Flanagan in the next fortnight, but I could be way off.

- Cameron Ciraldo
- Ricky Stuart
- Todd Payten