Which 4 -5 players would make us a serious contender ?

[bradtalo]

What do we know ?

We recently re-signed DWZ long term on fullback money it seems but he's not reliable enough under bombs and he lacks the passing game to be a top fullback so he needs to go back to wing like it or lump it. He shouldn't complain too much if he's getting "the salary" of a fullback.

Lewis - hasn't really improved in attack during the off season it seems. We're never going to be a top team while he's one of our halves. Only worth keeping if he could cut it at centre or hooker but as we've seen with JMK, manufactured hookers don't seem to work too well.

JMK - I know that he missed pre-season but his first 2 games this year were still a worry. No running game at all. Still big doubts about his long term future as our No9. Katoa could be okay but he was only average at the Panthers so we probably need to strengthen here. We probably need to chase Jake Friend who still has a few more years left in him at age 30. Either that or we offer ridiculous money for Tedesco and Keary and when the Roosters pay overs to keep them (which they will) we snatch Verrills.

Will Hopoate and Josh Jackson we recently re-signed long term

Aiden Tolman offers absolutely nothing in attack. Whenever he gets the ball even 1 - 5 metres out from the tryline you immediately know there's absolutely ZERO chance of him scoring a try or getting an offload. From anywhere on the field you know he's ZERO chance of making decent metres or getting a quick play the ball. Every time he touches the ball it's just a wasted opportunity / wasted tackle basically. He's not dominant in defence either. He might clean up a bit in defence but we have Jacko for that. As we saw in the Cowboys game this year we need forwards who can make effective "dominant" tackles. Surely Tolman has to go and it will free up decent coin too.

On the open market there's no standout spine players available unfortunately. Scott Drinkwater may be worth pursuing though - he can play both fullback and in the halves. He was player of the tournament at the Nines remember so he definitely has some attacking spark. I didn't see much of the Nines though so I haven't seen enough of him to think he could be our long term standout fullback so at this stage I'd be happy to see Meaney given a bit more time at fullback. He's very reliable under high kicks and fast. Just needs to get involved more. Unsure about his passing game too. Hopa has a good passing game but a bit too slow for a fullback. Averillo is a potential fullback option also I think.

Reimis - I don't think he's a real centre. That game against the Dragons a couple of years ago showed he was potentially a superstar WINGER but he's been very quiet ever since. Pay was an idiot by splitting him and Holland. Maybe Reimis is just suffering because he doesn't get decent ball and that leads me to worry if we bought JAC he could be wasted just the same (as B. Moz was in many games also). Maybe we're better off going with a centre who can create something like Mitchell ?

Foran we can extend for cheap if we want. He'll definitely take a big pay cut. He's already stated that. He's still a top player IF he can stay on the field that is. Averillo is a potential replacement if he gets injured again and Cogger. Wakeham has a bit more natural flair than Cogger I think and we desperately need points so I'd have him paired with Foran.

So if Meaney is fullback, DWZ one wing, Hopa one centre, Foran and Wakeham in the halves (with Cogger and Averillo as back ups) we need a centre or if we sack Reimis a centre and a winger. Cotric is a decent option but I don't know if he can create tries like we need. I'd still consider Mitchell if we could get him for a bit more than what the Bunnies want to pay him as I think he'd offer a bit more creativity (something from nothing - as we desperately need). Apparently Souths want to pay him less than his option agreed rate next season (was 800K) so he's likely to become a free agent.

Our number one target though as a marquee player and we really do need / deserve one at least one - a player who can create tries from nothing consistently from ANYWHERE on the field - a player who will bring confidence and attract other good players to our club and attract sponsors in future has to be DAVID FIFITA. If we are to become a real contender I believe this guy is a MUST. Potentially the best forward in the game (close to that now). Potentially the best player in the world. Already rated the best young player ever seen by Andrew Voss and Peter Mullholland. Broncos aren't offering him much and even the Titans are reportedly only offering him a little bit more. We seriously need to make him an offer "too good to refuse: whatever that is - I guess 100-200K a year more than the Titans.

Also we need to get CHN back after he's done a 12 month suspension and we should get him on the cheap since he helped cost us a sponsor. He's one of the most creative edge forwards in the game. Him and Fifita together would be amazing.

So the team I would like to see in 2021 would be something like the one below with either Flanagan or Bennett as coach. I feel sorry for Pay as he inherited a shit sandwich but the game against the Cowboys this year demonstrated that he can't even motivate the players in defence obviously - and he can't attract shit (as in good players). Offer him assistant coach. He won't get any better offers anywhere else in Australia anyway.

1 Nick Meaney / Jake Averillo (Scott Drinkwater)
2 DWZ
3 Will Hopoate
4 Latrell Mitchell / Nick Cotric
5 JAC (Reimis Smith)
6 Kieran Foran / Jake Averillo (Scott Drinkwater)
7 Brandon Wakeham
8 Dylan Napa
9 Jake Friend
10 Luke Thompson
11 CHN
12 David Fifita
13 Josh Jackson

14 Renouf Toomaga
15 RFM
16 Dean Britt
17 Adam Elliott / Ofahiki Ogden

 

[turveys asthma puffer]

I stopped reading when i realised you didn’t have Averillo at 6.

 

[David holland]

Nathan Brown, Cameron mc innes,Nick cotric,Stephan Crichton, and obviously Luke Thompson

 

[B-Train]

Is Drinkwater even off contract? The club was looking at him in 2019 so he'd be a good signing if he's off contract.

Fifita would be one of our best signings ever but I can't see him leaving Brisbane. Addo Carr would want too much money for my liking and paying 700k plus for a winger when we have very few playmakers in the team would be a mistake.

Cotric should be heavily recruited but I can't see him leaving a premiership contender for us unless we offer huge money.

Flegler looks like a future Origin prop so he'd be a good signing as surely someone in that Broncos pack will be forced out eventually.

Crichton would be a great signing as a fullback but Penrith will likely hand him that role soon and re-sign him.

Harry Grant should be the priority at hooker if he is available. Mahoney would be a good signing but he'd be after decent money after last season.

If we somehow ended with signings like Cotric, Flegler, Grant and Chrichton to go along with the signing of Thompson I'd be ecstatic as we wouldn't be breaking the bank. We would solve two spine positions long term while signing future rep players before they've hit their prime.

Others to consider would be Francis Molo, Tristan Sailor and younger players like them looking for an opportunity.

 

[TwinTurbo]

One question at time, how do you know we signed DWZ on "fullback money"?

Go Dogs

 

[boggie23]

We definitely need a few changes. The team doesn’t cut it and the coach is looking out of his depth. And even after the lack of winning. It’s even the 5 year old silly errors. The drop balls, then play the ball infringements. Very cringe worthy football especially game 2.

can we blame it on rust or we haven’t clicked yet? I think that’s looking for an excuse. Maybe it’s we are an energy team and the empty stands blunted us?

I don’t think it’s good to justify poor performances anymore. We did our hard time for the last 3-4 years. We should be looking towards the light at the end of the tunnel. We have put upmost faith in Lynne to get us through this. Just hope she is half as shrewd as her old man. Like said above fullback, outside back, halves and hooker are out issues. Hope the board, ceo and the coach realise this and has a plan to rectify.

You’d almost even consider players like Folau, radrandra and anyone else we can get our hands on because I doubt the board will survive on promises if we don’t make the playoffs for the next 2 years which seems likely at this point.

 

[TwinTurbo]

B Moz was never wasted outside J Moz, you're using a non existent example to prove a non existent point.

Go Dogs

 

[TwinTurbo]

Mitchell wants to play fullback and get paid "overs" on that. If he develops as an OK fullback then he stays at the Wabbits, if he doesn't then he still wants to play fullback and get paid "overs". There is no win with Mitchell until he changes his attitude, move on.

Go Dogs

 

[TwinTurbo]

DFafita, why the hell would we have to offer $200k more than the Titans, they may not even survive 2020, he would have zero job security there, they have next to zero infrastructure and no chance of a premiership for at least 5 years.

Go Dogs

 

[CrittaMagic69]

We definitely need a few changes. The team doesn’t cut it and the coach is looking out of his depth. And even after the lack of winning. It’s even the 5 year old silly errors. The drop balls, then play the ball infringements. Very cringe worthy football especially game 2.

can we blame it on rust or we haven’t clicked yet? I think that’s looking for an excuse. Maybe it’s we are an energy team and the empty stands blunted us?

I don’t think it’s good to justify poor performances anymore. We did our hard time for the last 3-4 years. We should be looking towards the light at the end of the tunnel. We have put upmost faith in Lynne to get us through this. Just hope she is half as shrewd as her old man. Like said above fullback, outside back, halves and hooker are out issues. Hope the board, ceo and the coach realise this and has a plan to rectify.

You’d almost even consider players like Folau, radrandra and anyone else we can get our hands on because I doubt the board will survive on promises if we don’t make the playoffs for the next 2 years which seems likely at this point.

Blame it on Pay thinking Lewis was a halfback and spending the whole off season training with him there. Any coach that thinks that is bound to get a whole lot of other things wrong. DWZ at fullback, again clearly wrong though people on here didn't want to here it because he ran hard.

 

[bradtalo]

One question at time, how do you know we signed DWZ on "fullback money"?

Go Dogs

At the time we re-signed DWZ he was our regular fullback and had been performing well. Remember when Mitchell started talking about wanting to play fullback for us that's when we pulled out of negotiations with him (because we already had re-signed who we considered to be our fullback).

 

[bradtalo]

B Moz was never wasted outside J Moz, you're using a non existent example to prove a non existent point.

Go Dogs

Under Desball "both" the Morris boys were definitely wasted and the gameplan hasn't changed much under Pay. It's only when he loosens the strings it seems at end of season when there's nothing to loose when the players play what's in front of them and take a few risks do we play okay in attack. Don't know why Pay can't trust the players from the start of the season.

 

[bradtalo]

I stopped reading when i realised you didn’t have Averillo at 6.

He's inexperienced at NRL level. When on the field Foran is still one of the most dangerous playmakers in the game. If he's willing to accept 300 or 400K for 2021 I think it's worth the investment only because there's a lack of quality halves available on the open market so we don't have much choice just like any other club

 

[TwinTurbo]

Lastly, you are moving players around thinking that a minor change in their playing position (or the number on their back) will suddenly make them into something magic. You thread title is correct we need 3 to 4 "above average players" including 2 to 3 game breakers, players who you can just give the ball to and they will make something happen. In order to recruit and fit them into our Cap we need to move on around 8 to 12 "average players" (the NRL average is $9.6m / 30 = $320k). Obviously that's a mixture of players on less than $320k and players on more than $320k. Equally obviously, moving on players on the NRL minimum $120k won't achieve the objective of freeing up enough Cap space.

Again you are correct, we have 1 "above average player" signed for 2021 in Thompson, if he ends up not being what we need then we send him back to England, if he ends up being a game breaker then that's a win win. Which leaves 2 to 3 more "above average players". Forget about positional swaps, changing numbers on jumpers, who are these 2 or 3 players that are going to make us serious contenders? Not in 2 or 3 years, NEXT YEAR, which rules out the maybes, players who might develop, players with long term potential etc they are not what we need for 2021.

Narrow the targets down, both position and player, don't chase a player that plays in a position where we don't need the big step up, a little step up isn't going to be enough. Who are the players in the positions we need that match that criteria. That's why it's hard, that's why throwing names around because they are or might be available, despite that they play in a position that we don't need, is just a complete waste of time.

Go Dogs

 

[TwinTurbo]

Under Desball "both" the Morris boys were definitely wasted and the gameplan hasn't changed much under Pay. It's only when he loosens the strings it seems at end of season when there's nothing to loose when the players play what's in front of them and take a few risks do we play okay in attack. Don't know why Pay can't trust the players from the start of the season.

The stats don't support your clams, BMoz scored 34 tries for us in 68 games, since moving to the Chooks he has scored 7 tries in 15 games, his % was higher at StGeorge early in his career and have steadily dropped away as he injuries have taken their tole (note he only played 15 games for the Chooks last year).

Nice attempt at diversion with the "end of season, nothing to lose" bullshit, the teams we beat had plenty to lose, a couple missed the finals because we beat them, a couple more lost home ground advantage because we beat them. It's nothing more than convenient excuse to suite already preconceived agendas the suddenly the coaching staff let the players loose because we were out of finals contention. Inconveniently we weren't out of finals contention last year until the second last round, oops doesn't suite the agenda, so ignore the facts.

Go Dogs

 

[B-Train]

Lastly, you are moving players around thinking that a minor change in their playing position (or the number on their back) will suddenly make them into something magic. You thread title is correct we need 3 to 4 "above average players" including 2 to 3 game breakers, players who you can just give the ball to and they will make something happen. In order to recruit and fit them into our Cap we need to move on around 8 to 12 "average players" (the NRL average is $9.6m / 30 = $320k). Obviously that's a mixture of players on less than $320k and players on more than $320k. Equally obviously, moving on players on the NRL minimum $120k won't achieve the objective of freeing up enough Cap space.

Again you are correct, we have 1 "above average player" signed for 2021 in Thompson, if he ends up not being what we need then we send him back to England, if he ends up being a game breaker then that's a win win. Which leaves 2 to 3 more "above average players". Forget about positional swaps, changing numbers on jumpers, who are these 2 or 3 players that are going to make us serious contenders? Not in 2 or 3 years, NEXT YEAR, which rules out the maybes, players who might develop, players with long term potential etc they are not what we need for 2021.

Narrow the targets down, both position and player, don't chase a player that plays in a position where we don't need the big step up, a little step up isn't going to be enough. Who are the players in the positions we need that match that criteria. That's why it's hard, that's why throwing names around because they are or might be available, despite that they play in a position that we don't need, is just a complete waste of time.

Go Dogs

Play along with the game then TT. Offer your suggestions with who you'd like the club to chase.

I think Chrichton at fullback, Grant or Mahoney at hooker with Flegler at prop, Cotric to play centre and Thompson to play lock or prop would instantly make our squad much more complete and well balanced.

The only holes in our lineup would potentially be an edge second rower and half but hopefully we can find those from within with Wakeham and Averillo and Topine being an option on the edge if we don't sign someone else.

 

[boggie23]

Blame it on Pay thinking Lewis was a halfback and spending the whole off season training with him there. Any coach that thinks that is bound to get a whole lot of other things wrong. DWZ at fullback, again clearly wrong though people on here didn't want to here it because he ran hard.

Yeh I agree with you. I never saw DWZ as a fullback. Like I said several times in the Past. There was a reason he never cemented a spot in the 1 at Penrith. Lacks the fines and game understanding. Great ball runner. But I’ll have him on the wing.

And my thoughts on Lewis aren’t hidden. Kid has no ball playing ability at all. Silly he was the Consensus pick by the club to start in the 7. Will give Frawley a run as the worst 7 we have had in recent time.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Play along with the game then TT. Offer your suggestions with who you'd like the club to chase.
I think Chrichton at fullback, Grant or Mahoney at hooker with Flegler at prop, Cotric to play centre and Thompson to play lock or prop would instantly make our squad much more complete and well balanced.

Right now I don't know what positions we need to fill;

For example JMK might do a "Cook" and switch into the hooking role. His playing history is similar, this season aligns with Cook's timing in his conversion to hooker, people forget that Cook played 37 reserve grade games and scored all of 2 tries (that's not a typo). These days hooker is a complex role and Cook took time to develop into it, JMK may well do the same, but this season is his chance, he needs to take it.

In the halves, Foran is both the solution (when he plays) and the problem (when he doesn't play). He is another with the rest of the season to stake his claim for 2021. We have plenty of young, up and coming, likely talent so Foran is the key as to whether or not we need a game breaker in the halves.

Smith at centre, yet another player with the rest of the season to prove he can cut it in that position, if not move him back to the wing or move him on. Which makes room for a Cotric or a Xerri, I have a leaning towards Xerri as being a more likely acquisition, Morris is a crap coach, Flanagan is linked to StGeorge (to satisfy the NRL "good boy for 2 years" requirement) where he most likely will take over from McGegor. The Sharks are on a downward slide and there are plenty of our players living in the Shire, so it's not that big a geographical move.

DWZ was pretty safe under the high ball last year and in 2 games this year he seems to have dropped the ball (sic). But last season proved he can catch, so maybe it's just a case of the yips and he will get over it. We need it, because right now I don't see another fullback that is both available and a game breaker.

As I said at the start of this post, I need a few more games this year to work out who (that are being paid above average) to flick to make Cap space for the above average players that we need for 2021.


Go Dogs

 

[B-Train]

Right now I don't know what positions we need to fill;

For example JMK might do a "Cook" and switch into the hooking role. His playing history is similar, this season aligns with Cook's timing in his conversion to hooker, people forget that Cook played 37 reserve grade games and scored all of 2 tries (that's not a typo). These days hooker is a complex role and Cook took time to develop into it, JMK may well do the same, but this season is his chance, he needs to take it.

In the halves, Foran is both the solution (when he plays) and the problem (when he doesn't play). He is another with the rest of the season to stake his claim for 2021. We have plenty of young, up and coming, likely talent so Foran is the key as to whether or not we need a game breaker in the halves.

Smith at centre, yet another player with the rest of the season to prove he can cut it in that position, if not move him back to the wing or move him on. Which makes room for a Cotric or a Xerri, I have a leaning towards Xerri as being a more likely acquisition, Morris is a crap coach, Flanagan is linked to StGeorge (to satisfy the NRL "good boy for 2 years" requirement) where he most likely will take over from McGegor. The Sharks are on a downward slide and there are plenty of our players living in the Shire, so it's not that big a geographical move.

DWZ was pretty safe under the high ball last year and in 2 games this year he seems to have dropped the ball (sic). But last season proved he can catch, so maybe it's just a case of the yips and he will get over it. We need it, because right now I don't see another fullback that is both available and a game breaker.

As I said at the start of this post, I need a few more games this year to work out who (that are being paid above average) to flick to make Cap space for the above average players that we need for 2021.


Go Dogs

Fair enough. Hopefully the rest of this season provides more answers than questions.

In my opinion JMK isn't a starting hooker so it would take a remarkable turnaround in form for the club to not pursue anyone else.

Surely the club has become fed up with Foran being in and out of the lineup so I can't see them re-signing him.

Reimis was never suited to a move to centre so I think we definitely need to pursue one of either Xerri or Cotric. Signing either would be a coup similar to us signing a young Wille Tonga.

DWZ was fine under the high ball last season but he had many errors in his game dating back to Penrith and obviously this year he's been a liability catching bombs. Either way, Dallin lacks the creativity and ball playing skills that the top fullbacks offer so ideally he moves to the wing and we can recruit a better fullback.

Hopefully our youngsters step up the rest of the season and prove that we only need a select few signings to complete the squad and don't need wholesale changes.

 

[MasterP]

01. Stephen Crighton
02. Dallin Watene-Zelezniak
03. Will Hopoate
04. Kotoni Staggs
05. Josh Addo-Carr
06. Jake Avarillo
07. Brandon Wakeham
08. Dylan Napa
09. Joe Lovodua
10. Luke Thompson
11. Sitili Tupouniua
12. Corey Harawira-Neara
13. Josh Jackson

14. Connor Watson
15. Renouf To'omaga
16. Thomas Flegler
17. Liam Martin