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Opinion What happens to tolman

Discussion in 'Bulldogs Discussion' started by danlemon, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Chris Harding

    Chris Harding Steam Powered Dog Premium Member

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    Actually, I think Oatley Dog's post was a well argued and sensible case for the retention of Tolman. Straw man arguments about other players are irrelevant to the subject. Tolman is the type of player every club needs to quietly do the hard yards without shirking. Our higher profile players stand on the shoulders of workhorses like Tolman.
     
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  2. KLil

    KLil Kennel Addict

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    Your right RFM can be anything, though for now I still think RFM is a better option off the bench as a X factor along with Tualau. I see Martin and Elliot on the edges solely because I just think they're solid footballers unlike RFM who doesn't understand the concept of stamina and pacing oneself yet.

    I do like your idea of Elliot though as a bench player because he can slot into either the edge or the middle which means we are healthy if injuries arise.

    In the end If all three can hit form and have their potential on display we will be a better side for it and really shake up the comp.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  3. speedy2460

    speedy2460 Kennel Enthusiast

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    No way do I want Manly to be stronger. Tolman should be kept at the Dogs.
     
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  4. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    But would t you say woods is the better version of Tolman?
    He makes the yards does his job and is really good at it plus has an offload...


    Different then klemmer

    Why the reason for Tolman?
     
  5. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    I agree, to strengthen reserve grade
     
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  6. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    Your basically saying woods isn't a workhorse

    Silly comment mate
     
  7. KLil

    KLil Kennel Addict

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    If I was a coach I would be salivating at the thought of having a rotation of Woods/Klem/Tolman and be cap complainant.

    Why?

    Because Klem is a metre eater and front on defender..
    Woods is a wonder around bash and offload type prop..
    Tolman is a smart positioning prop that hits points..

    Three different styles that will make difficult to contend with during rotations due to change ups in game plans... Add Tualau and Fualalo to the mix and you have probably the best all rounded front row in the comp.
     
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  8. Nabsolutely Fabulous

    Nabsolutely Fabulous Immortal Gilded

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    I don't think RFM should be benched, i think he should be aiming to play 80 minutes on an edge. I also don't like the idea of rotating edge forwards, it's a waste of interchange these days. You basically burn atleast 6 changes rotating you're middle these days, that only leaves you with 2 free to cover a wide range of things. You do still need someone off the bench that can cover the middle or an edge though, whoever doesn't start out of Elliott/RFM will be that player.

    I also don't think we should be keeping a middle forward on for huge minutes, especially a forward like Tolman, his "motor" is massively overrated and he isn't near effective enough to be on the field for huge minutes. His skillset is also far too limited to justify the minutes. Jackson is probably the only forward i would play for 80 through the middle as he can consistently contribute on and off the ball at a high enough level, even then i probably wouldn't be aiming for massive minutes each week.

    Either way, the forward packs looks to be shaping up like this if we follow pre season reports, it's not what i'd pick but i'm obviously not coach or at training every day. I'm going to leave Feastwood out for a number of reasons at this stage.

    8. Woods
    9. Lichaa
    10. Tolman
    11. RFM/Elliott
    12. Jackson
    13. Tolman

    14. ????
    15. Fualalo
    16. Tualau
    17. Elliott/RFM
     
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  9. NickT

    NickT Forum Regular

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    He is a first grade footy player and holds his own week in/out. Injuries will play a part in a successful season and a player of his caliber is useful.
    I don’t get the hate for him. Everyone slagged Lichaa and it seems him re-signing was well received after him throwing off the shackles.
    Let’s see how he goes
     
  10. Typical dog

    Typical dog Forum Regular

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    Tolman covering hard for prop and lock..... he's a gun
     
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  11. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    Would klemmer make your reserve grade side?
     
  12. Nabsolutely Fabulous

    Nabsolutely Fabulous Immortal Gilded

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    C'mon, i obviously put Tolman in twice by mistake :tearsofjoy:
     
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  13. Oatley Dog

    Oatley Dog Kennel Addict Gilded

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    Exactly. One of our big problems last season was that even when we did hold the opposition in the first quarter when the rotations started our benchies didn't step up. Not only did they not hold the line we lost ground when they were on. By the time our first stringers came back on it was generally game over. That was simply because having so called impact players is nice if they attack all the time but if they can't defend then you go backwards. Kas, RFM, Frawley wasn't a good combo to bring on as none of them could tackle. We've dumped Kas, look like starting with Frawley so that only leaves RFM as a borderline defender, plus whoever else is on the bench. Assuming JJ and Elliott are defending out wide, that leaves Tolman, Woods, Klem and Lichaa in the centre. When Woods and Klem have a spell we need another two good defenders to come on. So, does that mean Eastwood, Priest, Tualau with Brown, or does it mean two of those go for RFM & Martin? The bottom line is none of those 6 defend as well as or for as long as Tolman, so he will most likely stay on for 70+ mins.
     
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  14. Nabsolutely Fabulous

    Nabsolutely Fabulous Immortal Gilded

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    I don't hate him, we just have 2 better props than him who start ahead of him and i don't believe he has the skillset of a lock in todays game.
     
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  15. Nabsolutely Fabulous

    Nabsolutely Fabulous Immortal Gilded

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    Garbage. Terrible reason to justify Tolman playing 70+ minutes, just awful. And we actually didn't start well because Tolmam and Graham got monstered by the defence all game.
     
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  16. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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  17. Nabsolutely Fabulous

    Nabsolutely Fabulous Immortal Gilded

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    These are the stats for tackle efficiency last season, i have ranked them from most effective to least effective.

    Tualau 94%
    Woods 93.6%
    Tolman 92.8%
    Klemmer 92.2%
    Fualalo 91%
    Jackson 88.9%
    Elliott 88%
    RFM 87.8%

    As we can see, Tolman sits 3rd on that list. Yes you also have to take into account minutes played per game, tackles made, etc. But the gap there isn't massive like some people are trying to make out.

    Tackle efficiency isn't even an absolute true indicator when judging a players overall defensive ability, things like dominant tackles, slowing down the ruck, positioning, etc aren't even taken into calculations here. It's just does the player make the tackle or doe he not.

    Does Tolman make his tackles? Yes. Does he cover extremely well in defence? Yes. No one is saying he doesn't do this stuff. But does he hurt in the tackles enough? No. Does he dominate the tackle enough? No. Does he slow the ruck enough? No. Things like these are equally as important as just being there and making a tackle. Like Mason said, Tolman is a spot player and teams RUN at him to setup the next play.

    Some people need to stop making out that Tolman is some elite defender and that he justifies huge minutes because this, it simply isn't true. His teammates are just as capable at making NRL standard tackles while providing far more with the ball in hand. If Tolman is playing more minutes than Woods or Klemmer next season then that will be an absolute crime.
     
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  18. speedy2460

    speedy2460 Kennel Enthusiast

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    I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole team will play better now that Graham is gone.
    I think he contributed to the awful 4th tackle option more than Tolman did.
     
  19. CaptainJackson

    CaptainJackson Immortal Gilded

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    Exactly this. I can't believe I read that our bench forwards were the problem.

    We got dominated with graham and tolman starting.
     
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  20. KLil

    KLil Kennel Addict

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    If Pay plays Tolman as lock then I agree that will most likely happen but I hope he realises shorter stints by Tolman / Tualau or Fualalo is a neat rotation during Klems and Woods stints. Most likely we will have two game plans during the game as If we have 2 different teams playing.... Woods and Klem bash and bend over the advantage line and gain points based on momentum and offloads whilst Tolman and co can concentrate on Foran's instructions playing a more structured game running plays off points whilst still being effective in defence. I'm telling you I'm salivating over our this pack to come and if we hold onto it for 3+ years then we are certainly more than a force.
     
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