We need to sign Fidow

CrittaMagic69

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According to some we have at least one “useless” player in every position;
Backrower, that would be Elliott (by a country mile).
Centre, dead cert that’s Holland, with an honourable mention to Montoya.
Half, Lewis (no attack) or Cogger (no defence) take your pick.
Prop, Tolman has that covered, with Napa as back up.
Dummy Half, was Lichaa but now he’s gone they are desperately searching for a target, JMK and Katoa didn’t feature at the 9’s so dumping on Bobcat became the temporary go to choice.

On TK there is an unquenchable thirst to dump on someone, anyone, in every position, like an alcoholic, they are irresistibly drawn to it.

Go Dogs
We haven't won a comp since 2004 and not made the finals in years, what else would you expect? Praise usually comes off the back of performances, results and achievements.
 

TwinTurbo

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Then you have to let others players go (either while on contract or not re-signing them) to keep them. It's something you do on the side and leave an extra bit of salary cap for it but that's it. You still have to buy what you need now (2021). Just because you have someone with a bit of potential you can't rely on them to make it. If they're pushing the door down than it'll just work itself out. Anyways I don't see that from our reserve graders that have had an opportunity in the NRL (or the 9's, I don't watch much reserve grade if at all).

The only reason someone like Wakeham will get a go is because there's nothing on the market we can buy (due to multiple reasons) so we'll strengthen elsewhere and give him another year or two to make it. Also I'm almost certain we have the money to buy at least two to three above average players that potentially can be game breakers (if we want to spend more per player then it'll almost be guaranteed). I don't think it's hard to determine what we need but the problem is going to be whether it's available on the market. We need one to two backs (depends how Meaney goes - JAC would be brilliant) and then a half (either with or without Foran - nothing off contract available) and a hooker (again nothing available off contract - JMK isn't good enough at this stage but gets an opportunity). We're probably light in the front row if we lose Tolman too, if Thompson and Napa are starting in 2021 that's a massive problem imo.
The list of players off contract at the end of this season is well known, Cogger, Doorey, Elliott, RFM, Foran, Harding, Harper, Holland, TKatoa, Montoya, Sue, Tass, Tolman, Wakeham and Winters-Chang. There are a lot of question marks in that list, some of them may well make it at NRL level, some could be reliable back ups (a necessity in a 30 man squad) and some will need to find a new home. Personally I suspect Tolman will be retained on a 1 or maybe 2 year contract. If he wants more then he might give ESL a go for a 3 year contract, but I suspect not given the age of his children. The rest are all basically playing for their NRL futures this season. Who (gets renewed) is nothing more than a guess at this stage.

"Letting players go" (that are still on contract) is not at all easy, firstly they have to want to go which usually means having another team to go to that is offering them the same and/or a higher and/or a longer contract. If nobody wants them they are rather unlikely to give up their contract.

Go Dogs
 

DinkumDog

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I probably shouldn’t have used the word excuse in regards to Pay and I think that’s where we went off tangent. What I was getting at was when posters defend players to the hilt but then say we don’t have the cattle. Sure some people might go overboard with criticism every now and again but there has to be bad players in the squad to be the position we are.
Don’t disagree and I think that balance will improve for the very well documented reasons beyond 2020. But as others have also pointed out - it’s impossible to have a squad of 30 guns - there’s always going to be a mix. I think we more or less understand each other :-).
 

bradyk

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The list of players off contract at the end of this season is well known, Cogger, Doorey, Elliott, RFM, Foran, Harding, Harper, Holland, TKatoa, Montoya, Sue, Tass, Tolman, Wakeham and Winters-Chang. There are a lot of question marks in that list, some of them may well make it at NRL level, some could be reliable back ups (a necessity in a 30 man squad) and some will need to find a new home. Personally I suspect Tolman will be retained on a 1 or maybe 2 year contract. If he wants more then he might give ESL a go for a 3 year contract, but I suspect not given the age of his children. The rest are all basically playing for their NRL futures this season. Who (gets renewed) is nothing more than a guess at this stage.

"Letting players go" (that are still on contract) is not at all easy, firstly they have to want to go which usually means having another team to go to that is offering them the same and/or a higher and/or a longer contract. If nobody wants them they are rather unlikely to give up their contract.

Go Dogs
Only ~7 worth re-signing right now for me (Cogger, Elliott, RFM, Foran, Harper, Tolman and Wakeham). With half or so of them being back ups. A couple players on that list I don't know anything about so if they have some potential then we might as well re-sign them (on the cheap anyways).

Unless the player you currently have is overpriced (on more than what they're "worth") and not performing you'll be able to find them a home without chipping in. The top clubs find a way to do it. It's a tough decision tho. There is no way around it really so just need to hope you get all of your recruitment decisions right (which is impossible).
 

TwinTurbo

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Only ~7 worth re-signing right now for me (Cogger, Elliott, RFM, Foran, Harper, Tolman and Wakeham). With half or so of them being back ups. A couple players on that list I don't know anything about so if they have some potential then we might as well re-sign them (on the cheap anyways).

Unless the player you currently have is overpriced (on more than what they're "worth") and not performing you'll be able to find them a home without chipping in. The top clubs find a way to do it. It's a tough decision tho. There is no way around it really so just need to hope you get all of your recruitment decisions right (which is impossible).
Please help me out here, I'm tying to think of a player that a "top club" has let go who didn't actually want to go? Had nowhere to go? Just let his contract be terminated early?

Put it another way, would you just give up your $110k+ a year (NRL min) job with no prospects of getting another gig?

Go Dogs
 

bradyk

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Please help me out here, I'm tying to think of a player that a "top club" has let go who didn't actually want to go? Had nowhere to go? Just let his contract be terminated early?

Put it another way, would you just give up your $110k+ a year (NRL min) job with no prospects of getting another gig?

Go Dogs
Leilua would be the last one? If you're not guaranteed a starting position you'd be surprised (a few Panthers too, honestly a dumb question it happens all the time). Especially if it was during the season. You can't terminate a contract so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up like I said it. You have to find a buyer for either their whole contract or a part of it. There is no way around it unless you're letting the kid go. You're going to have to choose. We're a club hunting those sort of players so if you think they don't exist well that'll do me (EVERYONE WE'VE BEEN LINKED TO HELLO). Another example is Sharks and Xerri (they're morons for signing Ramien before getting J. Morris or Dugan off their books - Dugan is a player that can't be moved on for reasons I said earlier). Manly chose Faniu over Koroisau... do you need more?

"Unless the player you currently have is overpriced (on more than what they're "worth") and not performing you'll be able to find them a home without chipping in."

What even is your reply.
 
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TwinTurbo

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What I said:
....... firstly they have to want to go which usually means having another team to go to that is offering them the same and/or a higher and/or a longer contract. If nobody wants them they are rather unlikely to give up their contract.
Leilua would be the last one? If you're not guaranteed a starting position you'd be surprised (a few Panthers too, honestly a dumb question it happens all the time). Especially if it was during the season. You can't terminate a contract so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up like I said it. You have to find a buyer for either their whole contract or a part of it. There is no way around it unless you're letting the kid go. You're going to have to choose. We're a club hunting those sort of players so if you think they don't exist well that'll do me (EVERYONE WE'VE BEEN LINKED TO HELLO). Another example is Sharks and Xerri (they're morons for signing Ramien before getting J. Morris or Dugan off their books - Dugan is a player that can't be moved on for reasons I said earlier). Manly chose Faniu over Koroisau... do you need more?
"Unless the player you currently have is overpriced (on more than what they're "worth") and not performing you'll be able to find them a home without chipping in."
What even is your reply.
Even if you are paying the NRL minimum ~$110k they may well be overpriced if no one wants them.

Koroisau was being chased by about 9 clubs if remember rightly, he had plenty of options. So leaving Manly wasn't a problem for him, he had offers, so no risk of being unemployed.

This is JMoz's last contracted year at the Sharks and I'm pretty sure that they were afraid that someone else would get Ramien if they didn't take him as soon as he asked. Not sure why you even mentioned Ramien, he wanted to leave and we were discussing players who didn't want to leave.

Leilua was in his last contract year at Canberra and joined his brother at the Tigers where they are both have 3 year contracts until the end of 2022. In simple terms he wanted to go, had somewhere to go and hence let his contract be terminated early in exchange for a longer one, with the bonus that it was in the same team as his brother. Again not a good example of player who didn't want to leave.

Dugan is a prime example of what I was talking about, someone whose club want to move on but no one wants him, especially at his backended contract rate.

I revert back to my question for you, if you had a ~$110k PA (or in some cases $900K PA) job with a contract still to run would you walk out without somewhere else to go? I don't think so.

Go Dogs
 

bradyk

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Even if you are paying the NRL minimum ~$110k they may well be overpriced if no one wants them.

Koroisau was being chased by about 9 clubs if remember rightly, he had plenty of options. So leaving Manly wasn't a problem for him, he had offers, so no risk of being unemployed.

This is JMoz's last contracted year at the Sharks and I'm pretty sure that they were afraid that someone else would get Ramien if they didn't take him as soon as he asked. Not sure why you even mentioned Ramien, he wanted to leave and we were discussing players who didn't want to leave.

Leilua was in his last contract year at Canberra and joined his brother at the Tigers where they are both have 3 year contracts until the end of 2022. In simple terms he wanted to go, had somewhere to go and hence let his contract be terminated early in exchange for a longer one, with the bonus that it was in the same team as his brother. Again not a good example of player who didn't want to leave.

Dugan is a prime example of what I was talking about, someone whose club want to move on but no one wants him, especially at his backended contract rate.

I revert back to my question for you, if you had a ~$110k PA (or in some cases $900K PA) job with a contract still to run would you walk out without somewhere else to go? I don't think so.

Go Dogs
No, but I never said they would. I will give you this quote again. "Unless the player you currently have is overpriced (on more than what they're "worth") and not performing you'll be able to find them a home without chipping in." We're talking about our development players/reserve graders taking their opportunity and we have to decide between them or the incumbent.
 

DoggyStyla

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We need to sign this kid, put him
On the wing and guarantee him first grade... storm did it with Addo Carr who was looking for an opportunity

Okunbor
Meaney
Crichton
Montoya
Holland

do not belong in first grade, meaney a good depth player, he’s too small these days compared to the modern winger..

smith and Fidow would be a deadly wing combination with Hoppa and centre with another recruit. And of course dwz fullback...

make it happen dogs!! He’s on a development deal at the moment!
Bahahahahaha man you need to keep your selections for which wipes you will use to clean the jiz off your keyboard.

Just jokes, I agree with most of that except I think Meaney may have a good year after doing a pre season on the wing.
 

DogsOfWar1704

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Bahahahahaha man you need to keep your selections for which wipes you will use to clean the jiz off your keyboard.

Just jokes, I agree with most of that except I think Meaney may have a good year after doing a pre season on the wing.
I think Meaney will have a few more tries this year if he’s outside hoppa
 

Tassie Devil

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We haven't won a comp since 2004 and not made the finals in years, what else would you expect? Praise usually comes off the back of performances, results and achievements.
Have to agree. It's important to support the club, and players so I hate death riding of those underperforming. But at the same time we have to be realistic. As you say, we haven't made the finals in years which is piss poor fpr a club of our size.
 

Tassie Devil

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I think Meaney will have a few more tries this year if he’s outside hoppa
Actually not too worried about Meaney. Think he'll really kick on this year. Issue I have is with the other side ... and distinct lack of true competition for spots on the wings.
 

TwinTurbo

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No, but I never said they would. I will give you this quote again. "Unless the player you currently have is overpriced (on more than what they're "worth") and not performing you'll be able to find them a home without chipping in." We're talking about our development players/reserve graders taking their opportunity and we have to decide between them or the incumbent.
My point is very simple, if the player doesn’t want to leave then we don’t get to decide anything. Both parties have to agree to terminate the contract.

Go Dogs
 

TrioBench 1995

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Okunbor has no chance... He's just not a rugby league player. I had hopes on his balls dropping and getting some mongrel into him but his just a straight out pussy.
He’s a soft cock
 

CrittaMagic69

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Have to agree. It's important to support the club, and players so I hate death riding of those underperforming. But at the same time we have to be realistic. As you say, we haven't made the finals in years which is piss poor fpr a club of our size.
Salary cap also contributes to the frustration because when you have a certain % not performing due to injury or just being shit then it impacts the whole of the squad.

If there was a salary cap in football then someone like Keita might come under massive scrutiny because of his injuries...but with no cap and and good depth available we're mostly just frustrated because we can't see him play. Not like we're trying to run him out of the club like i'd love to do with a few dogs players lol.
 

bradyk

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My point is very simple, if the player doesn’t want to leave then we don’t get to decide anything. Both parties have to agree to terminate the contract.

Go Dogs
Push them into reserves or the bench. They'll want to go. The only reason why they won't is because there are no buyers for the reasons I've stated (maybe we'll have to chip in, it is what it is). Ideally we don't have players on long contracts so we're able to just run out their contract and not re-sign them or we only have to deal with them on our books for one year even tho we don't want to use them (as we've decided to go with our reserve/development player). There isn't an alternative anyways. RCG at Panthers was on a long term deal there and he was able to find a club and he was a shadow of himself. RCG has come out and said he was pushed out by Ivan and he didn't want to leave.
 
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