Thankfully not on the same money...
Wouldn't say people are looking to dump on people. Imagine it's just history making it hard for people to really believe the players we have can get better. Perhaps if the coach had a greater reputation for improving players? Or if these players were actually good?
Spot on! We have missed the finals for 3 years straight and the Pay not having the cattle excuse gets wheeled out regularly so there has to be some below par players in the squad somewhere.
Depth is a concern though bringing the likes of Holland, Montoya and Crichton into the team doesn't fill me with much confidence.
Of course there is. Severe salary cap restrictions will cause just that - a bunch of inexperienced players on relatively low wages. And no, that’s not an excuse, but that problem is almost cleaned up. In 2021 there will be no excuses as there’s nothing holding us back from being able to recruit the 4-5 experienced players we need (we already have 1).
We need to sign Johnstone lol
Whats your point though? Everyone on here is well aware of those issues. When someone points out a player they believe are below par some on here will jump to the rescue like they are a proven NRL player.
You said the ‘Pay doesn’t have the cattle excuse is wheeled out regularly’. He largely HASN’T had the cattle in his first two years so I don’t see it as an excuse, I think it’s true - which means of course there are some below par players. Also one of the three years we haven’t made the finals was under the Despot so it can’t all be pinned on Pay. As to whoever defends selected players you’d have to ask them specifically why - but the only way I see it related to the squad as a whole are the reasons already outlined.
It was a valid excuse in 2018 and it weakens with every year as he gets a stronger say in the squad till it disappears all together next year. This isn't really the point I was trying to make anyway I was using the Pay not having a cattle line to back up having sub par players in the squad.
We have few above average players. Lucky for us we've re-signed almost everyone we want to keep (a few smaller players to still look at like Wakeham, Meaney, RFM, etc) and we're going to have a couple million (imo 2-3m) to spend to sign another three to four above average players. We're short of those above average players and that's why we're not competitive. You can have all the effort you want but if you don't sprinkle that with enough talent it goes to no use. We really shouldn't be complaining about this year (and the last year or so) as our hands were tied but 2021 on wards we can't use that excuse anymore. There are still going to be some issues we run into but if we're somewhat successful and when the contracts of our players start to run down we can address them (the squad we have in 2021 will still be nowhere near the top four teams but we're going to be able to be competitive in the eight). Developing players and players just getting better in general is good and all but we can't rely on that, it's just a bonus (and there is no reason to).
You talking about Shaun Johnson ? If you mean Tom Johnstone that's no laughing matter lol kid is a excellent finisher for Wakefield
I think he meant Alex Johnston
Not sure I follow as clearly as I do your posts normally, but we agree that this year is the final year of having one hand tied behind our backs and it’s game on from 2021 both from a cap and I guess cattle point of view because by then the restored pathways program will have produced young fellas ready to step up to NRL which will include names that get tossed around here fairly frequently - some of whom will likely get a run this year but who will definitely be in the frame for 2021.
Depends on what you mean by "rely", the Salary Cap forces us to rely on a number of players developing ie; being paid less in their current contract than their playing quality justifies, which then changes when the contract is up and they can demand something more in line with their playing status. That's what Mitchell was at the Chooks and JAC at Melbourne, better players at the end of their contracts than their early contract value was worth. You need those types of players. You need senior (experienced ) players, the constant, to help the developing players to reach their maximum potential. In the later years of their contracts they may well be paid more than the actual playing level (game after game) demands, but you rely a lot on their experience in tight situations. Then you need a couple of game breakers on top dollars, that you can rely on to produce a flash of brilliance at least once per game, that results in a win. No team can afford to buy more than 2 or 3 game breakers, there's just not enough room in the cap. We are not totally devoid of talent, when he is playing Foran is a game breaker and when given the opportunity by his inside support Hopoate can win a game for us if he has decent outside support. I don't think Thompson is game breaker but every team needs a dominant prop, plus another, who between them we rely on to lay the foundation for the game breakers.
Then you have to let others players go (either while on contract or not re-signing them) to keep them. It's something you do on the side and leave an extra bit of salary cap for it but that's it. You still have to buy what you need now (2021). Just because you have someone with a bit of potential you can't rely on them to make it. If they're pushing the door down than it'll just work itself out. Anyways I don't see that from our reserve graders that have had an opportunity in the NRL (or the 9's, I don't watch much reserve grade if at all).
I probably shouldn’t have used the word excuse in regards to Pay and I think that’s where we went off tangent. What I was getting at was when posters defend players to the hilt but then say we don’t have the cattle. Sure some people might go overboard with criticism every now and again but there has to be bad players in the squad to be the position we are.