V'Landys will destroy NRL by adding more teams

Rod67

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It's abundantly clear from recent years there are 2 elite teams in the Storm and Panthers followed by Souths, when they're at full strength they could beat any team, the Rorters are still competitive but aren't the team they were a few years back as time catches with them. Cowboys are having a good season but can they keep it up, doubt it. Eels are to inconsistent and don't have the depth of the Storm and Penrith. Broncos have been the most improved team this season while Cronulla are hot and cold and Raiders are playing well enough to make the 8 but are making up the numbers, the rest aren't anywhere near competitive.

Why then do we need to expand the competition when there clearly isn't enough talent to go around 16 clubs let alone 17.

Understand they want to expand the game but they would be better off having a 1st and 2nd division competition like they do in English Football (soccer) or alternatively have conferences like they do in US team sports.

Adding more teams further weakens an already top heavy competition and that was clearly evident prior the Super League war when Quayle and Arthurson thought it was wise to expand the competition from 16 to 20 teams back in 1995 when the Warriors, Cowboys, South Queensland Crushers and Western Reds were included. This was the catalyst for the Super League wars. Crushers, Western Reds didn't last long North Sydney were kicked out in 1999 and Balmain and Wests merged to form the West Tigers from 2000. St George merged with Illawarra in 1998 and the Storm entered the comp the same year.

V'landys is doing the same in the NRL as he has done in horse racing where he just wants more revenue, which is great but not at the expense of the quality of the sport(s). V'landys has a background in wagering and knows the more people bet on sports or racing the more money that makes for them but the game is more the poorer for this. He has saturated Sydney Saturday horse racing by increasing the number of races from 8 to 10 and those extra races are made up of country horses that nobody knows anything about but he knows mugs will bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall so he introduces more races and now NRL games for people to lose their money on.

I believe LESS is MORE! Have the top 12 or 14 (no more) in first division and have a 2nd division where the top two teams are promoted the following year and the below 2 teams are demoted from 1st division. This would make the season more interesting and have more people following if they bring in more teams to make up a 12 team 2nd division competition.
 

Rod67

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Once again who the hell cares? If there are more 'weak' teams that should make it easier for us to be a powerhouse again.
I feel many should care as I've read many posts on here from diehard fans and I'm sure other fans from teams not doing so well, that are losing interest in the code when it is a lopsided competition, with blowout scores and seems to have been the case for a few years now.

Adding more teams only weakens it further and that potentially could turn many fans away from the game and follow one of the 2 Sydney AFL teams which seems to be a far more even competition than the NRL has been in recent years.
 
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TwinTurbo

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There is plenty of talent to go around, the problem you are describing has nothing whatsoever to do with the overall size of the talent pool. It is the concentration of the upper level of that talent amongst a small number of teams. As usual the NRL is doing diddley squat about spreading that upper talent around, they just rely on the Salary Cap to do that for them. Which does work, just not enough nor fast enough. Both Melbourne (2 x Bromwichs, Kaufusi, BSmith) and Penrith (Koroisau, Kikau, RJennings) are losing a number of their better players next year. Of course you can say "they will just replace them" but the fact is they will go to other clubs and make them stronger, same as Burton, Hynes, Finucane and JAC have done this year.

The TPA's situation with one team towns like Melbourne and Brisbane is a major distortion in regards to TPA's. Which is heled by the Dolphins next year at least in Brisbane.

Always a Bulldog
 

Philistine

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The salary cap is a joke, particularly as it relates to third party agreements. According to the NRL website:

“TPAs are excluded from the salary cap provided they have no association with the players club and the club did not play a role in sourcing the agreement. If there is a link, it will be included in the salary cap.”

There will always be a link between the club and the TPA provider or there would be no point in having the TPAs. As long as the TPA provider and the player are well coached in their responses to auditors' questions, it is ridiculously easy for the club to pretend there is no link. The Dogs were themselves busted in 2002 only because there was a falling out behind the scenes, and one of the sponsors then blew the whistle on his own club.
 
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Rod67

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There is plenty of talent to go around, the problem you are describing has nothing whatsoever to do with the overall size of the talent pool. It is the concentration of the upper level of that talent amongst a small number of teams. As usual the NRL is doing diddley squat about spreading that upper talent around, they just rely on the Salary Cap to do that for them. Which does work, just not enough nor fast enough. Both Melbourne (2 x Bromwichs, Kaufusi, BSmith) and Penrith (Koroisau, Kikau, RJennings) are losing a number of their better players next year. Of course you can say "they will just replace them" but the fact is they will go to other clubs and make them stronger, same as Burton, Hynes, Finucane and JAC have done this year.

The TPA's situation with one team towns like Melbourne and Brisbane is a major distortion in regards to TPA's. Which is heled by the Dolphins next year at least in Brisbane.

Always a Bulldog
Salary Cap obviously doesn't work when teams have rich powerbrokers behind them to entice players to their club by way of TPA's. Storm have Matt Tripp, Rorters have the "Godfather" N Politis and Souths have Crowe and Packer behind them while the Panthers have the one of if not the biggest Clubs behind them and strong juniors to help them.

Other clubs can't compete with that, as has been proven for a few years now. More teams has diluted the overall strength of the comp as it only took a few years after they went to 20 teams in 1995 for other teams to fold or merge a few years later.

The Dolphins have a few good signings but overall their squad will take quite a few years to be competitive. They've signed JMK and while he's been good for us he isn't going to win you a comp. He knocked back an offer to stay with us as he didn't want to play second fiddle to Mahoney.

If they announced a new competition in 4 or 5 years with only 12 or 14 teams that would allow everyone to play one another twice, home and away, plus it would strengthen the overall depth of ALL clubs with an increase in the Salary Cap as well with other teams demoted to the 2nd division having a lower cap. It would also allow more time for rep games to played throughout the season or as a stand alone game on the weekend.

Much better for the game overall. Less teams would provide more interest from fans than increasing the competition with more teams and have their season virtually over if they haven't won a game within the first 5 rounds.
 

TwinTurbo

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Salary Cap obviously doesn't work when teams have rich powerbrokers behind them to entice players to their club by way of TPA's. Storm have Matt Tripp, Rorters have the "Godfather" N Politis and Souths have Crowe and Packer behind them while the Panthers have the one of if not the biggest Clubs behind them and strong juniors to help them.

Other clubs can't compete with that, as has been proven for a few years now. More teams has diluted the overall strength of the comp as it only took a few years after they went to 20 teams in 1995 for other teams to fold or merge a few years later.

The Dolphins have a few good signings but overall their squad will take quite a few years to be competitive. They've signed JMK and while he's been good for us he isn't going to win you a comp. He knocked back an offer to stay with us as he didn't want to play second fiddle to Mahoney.

If they announced a new competition in 4 or 5 years with only 12 or 14 teams that would allow everyone to play one another twice, home and away, plus it would strengthen the overall depth of ALL clubs with an increase in the Salary Cap as well with other teams demoted to the 2nd division having a lower cap. It would also allow more time for rep games to played throughout the season or as a stand alone game on the weekend.

Much better for the game overall. Less teams would provide more interest from fans than increasing the competition with more teams and have their season virtually over if they haven't won a game within the first 5 rounds.
There would actually be a decrease in the Salary Cap because the media rights would be drastically reduced. The only reason the rights were increased next year is due to the second Brisbane team. When you cut NRL teams you don’t just lose them, you also loose their Cup team, their Flegg team, their W team, their Massey team and their local juniors no longer have an NRL team to aspire to. The player talent pool could actually decrease as a result.

The obvious question, exactly which teams are you going drop? Plainly Brisbane can easily support 2 teams, plus we don’t want to hand the Donkeys back their huge one city one team TPA advantage. Melbourne, they don’t have any local junior teams, but the media rights would halve if they got dropped. Wests Tigers and give up on the fastest growing areas of Sydney, farkin lunacy. If you drop the Dolphins then Melbourne get stronger by re-assimilating their SE QLD local juniors. Melbourne already accumulate too many upper level players, adding the Dolphins reduces that advantage. The Titans, which leaves the Gold Coast to the AFL, they will pinch all the talent from that local pool. Warriors, fmd there goes the revenue from the media rights in NZ.

Amalgamations, the obvious one, South’s and the Chooks, they have the smallest geographical area and the Chooks have basically no real local juniors, they just buy players from someone else. Speaking of amalgamations how successful have they been, Wests Tigers are still at war internally. Manly Norths, that went so well that the Bears defected to the Chooks. StGeorge Illawarra, maybe an optimistic half OK, but they still have this convoluted Board structure that are in constant dispute over everything from what games are played where and why is all the Gov money going to Kogarah.

If you want to only have 12 teams, then specifically which 5 teams are you going to cut?


Always a Bulldog
 

Baby Blues

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There would actually be a decrease in the Salary Cap because the media rights would be drastically reduced. The only reason the rights were increased next year is due to the second Brisbane team. When you cut NRL teams you don’t just lose them, you also loose their Cup team, their Flegg team, their W team, their Massey team and their local juniors no longer have an NRL team to aspire to. The player talent pool could actually decrease as a result.

The obvious question, exactly which teams are you going drop? Plainly Brisbane can easily support 2 teams, plus we don’t want to hand the Donkeys back their huge one city one team TPA advantage. Melbourne, they don’t have any local junior teams, but the media rights would halve if they got dropped. Wests Tigers and give up on the fastest growing areas of Sydney, farkin lunacy. If you drop the Dolphins then Melbourne get stronger by re-assimilating their SE QLD local juniors. Melbourne already accumulate too many upper level players, adding the Dolphins reduces that advantage. The Titans, which leaves the Gold Coast to the AFL, they will pinch all the talent from that local pool. Warriors, fmd there goes the revenue from the media rights in NZ.

Amalgamations, the obvious one, South’s and the Chooks, they have the smallest geographical area and the Chooks have basically no real local juniors, they just buy players from someone else. Speaking of amalgamations how successful have they been, Wests Tigers are still at war internally. Manly Norths, that went so well that the Bears defected to the Chooks. StGeorge Illawarra, maybe an optimistic half OK, but they still have this convoluted Board structure that are in constant dispute over everything from what games are played where and why is all the Gov money going to Kogarah.

If you want to only have 12 teams, then specifically which 5 teams are you going to cut?


Always a Bulldog
Great post. I actually can’t believe we are actually going to have a competition with an uneven number of teams? Why the NRL didn’t have the balls to make Perth the 18th team is crazy.
 

Rod67

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There would actually be a decrease in the Salary Cap because the media rights would be drastically reduced. The only reason the rights were increased next year is due to the second Brisbane team. When you cut NRL teams you don’t just lose them, you also loose their Cup team, their Flegg team, their W team, their Massey team and their local juniors no longer have an NRL team to aspire to. The player talent pool could actually decrease as a result.

The obvious question, exactly which teams are you going drop? Plainly Brisbane can easily support 2 teams, plus we don’t want to hand the Donkeys back their huge one city one team TPA advantage. Melbourne, they don’t have any local junior teams, but the media rights would halve if they got dropped. Wests Tigers and give up on the fastest growing areas of Sydney, farkin lunacy. If you drop the Dolphins then Melbourne get stronger by re-assimilating their SE QLD local juniors. Melbourne already accumulate too many upper level players, adding the Dolphins reduces that advantage. The Titans, which leaves the Gold Coast to the AFL, they will pinch all the talent from that local pool. Warriors, fmd there goes the revenue from the media rights in NZ.

Amalgamations, the obvious one, South’s and the Chooks, they have the smallest geographical area and the Chooks have basically no real local juniors, they just buy players from someone else. Speaking of amalgamations how successful have they been, Wests Tigers are still at war internally. Manly Norths, that went so well that the Bears defected to the Chooks. StGeorge Illawarra, maybe an optimistic half OK, but they still have this convoluted Board structure that are in constant dispute over everything from what games are played where and why is all the Gov money going to Kogarah.

If you want to only have 12 teams, then specifically which 5 teams are you going to cut?


Always a Bulldog
You work towards a 4 to 5 year plan so every club knows.

Where did I say cut?

I said 1st and 2nd Division like they have in English soccer. Clubs aren’t cut from the comp they’re demoted to 2nd division and the top 2 teams from 2nd are promoted.

If there are less teams and by that I mean the BEST teams, then it stands to reason that there would be more money for these clubs to go around as those teams that have dropped to 2nd Division also drop to a lower salary cap level then what they’re on now.

As I’ve said, based on the results from not only this year and the last few the competition is lopsided and very little has changed. That becomes a turn off for many fans whose club is seemingly going nowhere. Something has to be done and bringing in another club only weakens the competition and code further as was proven back in 1995.
 

Rod67

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Great post. I actually can’t believe we are actually going to have a competition with an uneven number of teams? Why the NRL didn’t have the balls to make Perth the 18th team is crazy.
We don’t need more teams in the current format it weakens the competition as was evident back in ‘95.

Yes introduce new teams but have a first & 2nd division where the top team from division 2 is promoted and the bottom team from division one is demoted.

Makes for a stronger competition than the one we currently have now and has been for a few years.
 

Baby Blues

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We don’t need more teams in the current format it weakens the competition as was evident back in ‘95.

Yes introduce new teams but have a first & 2nd division where the top team from division 2 is promoted and the bottom team from division one is demoted.

Makes for a stronger competition than the one we currently have now and has been for a few years.
Having an uneven number of teams is stupid. I don’t agree with your idea about promotion and relegation at all. A Perth team is a must and needs to be a priority moving forwards. The idea that we have a team in the Gold Coast to combat the AFL but not there makes no sense.
 

Roger the alien

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Not sure how it would work but I do like the idea of 2 divisions and relegation. I would like to see a rookie draft also allowing teams to trade picks for established players, it makes things more exciting.
 

Philistine

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I should like to see the NRL cut the salary cap in half and exclude local juniors from it. There would have to be strict and precise rules on what constitutes a local junior, or that would become a productive breeding ground for rorts. All TPAs to be included in the cap regardless of who is putting up the money and who is getting it. Strict and careful auditing. and a lifetime ban for administrators, player agents and players caught cheating.
 

Malla

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Expansion is needed given the $$ lost during covid, but agree there isn't enough talent going around at the moment.

NRL needs to solve the juniors issue. Almost to the point they remove it from clubs hands and create a draft system for the top 30 players coming out of SG ball each year or something. I don't think the structure at the moment is working. Rich keep getting richer and poor get poorer. Salary cap needs to be changed too.

1 or 2 things happen at the moment - the junior comes through juniors for their clubs and then a club with big money swoops in and signs them or that team has an exceptional juniors system like Penrith or Broncos where they have so much junior talent coming through.
 

ASSASSIN

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I want the nrlol to be set up exactly like the NFL. From drafts, to divisions, conferences and finals setup.
 

TwinTurbo

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The RLPA will NEVER EVER agree to a draft, at the first hint of it they took it to court to make sure it would never happen. As it happens I agree with the RLPA on this one, how can anyone argue for an an 18 year old being drafted from, say, Sydney to North Queensland only to get paid the minimum rate of $85k a year and he has to stay there for, what, 3 years? No family, no friends, no support network and probably living in shared accommodation with a bunch of others players who don't want to be there either. Talk about a recipe for disaster.

Don't give me the bullshit comparison with, say, the NBA, where the draft picks 1 to 30 get between $2m and $8m (that's USD), more than enough to take their family, friends, support network with them and buy a farkin mansion to live in.


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Philistine

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The RLPA will NEVER EVER agree to a draft, at the first hint of it they took it to court to make sure it would never happen.
I remember that. I couldn't understand why it was legal (and working) in the AFL but illegal in the NRL

A draft would solve a lot of our problems. You would think the RLPA and NRL could get together and negotiate a deal that works for both sides. Having said that, I doubt the NRL could negotiate a sexual encounter in a disorderly house.
As it happens I agree with the RLPA on this one, how can anyone argue for an an 18 year old being drafted from, say, Sydney to North Queensland only to get paid the minimum rate of $85k a year and he has to stay there for, what, 3 years?
When the AFL draft a player, both sides have to agree on the move and the terms or it doesn't happen.
 

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Nrl pays players directly

Tpas organised through and payed to nrl then distributed to players with nrl taking a small commission

5 year loyalty bonus (junior years counted) starting at 20 % and going up 2% per year there after on top of agreed cap value

Ref's relegated monthly based on kpi - uneven play ball speeds, incorrect try decision sent up infringements missed etc.
 
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Como Dog

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It's abundantly clear from recent years there are 2 elite teams in the Storm and Panthers followed by Souths, when they're at full strength they could beat any team, the Rorters are still competitive but aren't the team they were a few years back as time catches with them. Cowboys are having a good season but can they keep it up, doubt it. Eels are to inconsistent and don't have the depth of the Storm and Penrith. Broncos have been the most improved team this season while Cronulla are hot and cold and Raiders are playing well enough to make the 8 but are making up the numbers, the rest aren't anywhere near competitive.

Why then do we need to expand the competition when there clearly isn't enough talent to go around 16 clubs let alone 17.

Understand they want to expand the game but they would be better off having a 1st and 2nd division competition like they do in English Football (soccer) or alternatively have conferences like they do in US team sports.

Adding more teams further weakens an already top heavy competition and that was clearly evident prior the Super League war when Quayle and Arthurson thought it was wise to expand the competition from 16 to 20 teams back in 1995 when the Warriors, Cowboys, South Queensland Crushers and Western Reds were included. This was the catalyst for the Super League wars. Crushers, Western Reds didn't last long North Sydney were kicked out in 1999 and Balmain and Wests merged to form the West Tigers from 2000. St George merged with Illawarra in 1998 and the Storm entered the comp the same year.

V'landys is doing the same in the NRL as he has done in horse racing where he just wants more revenue, which is great but not at the expense of the quality of the sport(s). V'landys has a background in wagering and knows the more people bet on sports or racing the more money that makes for them but the game is more the poorer for this. He has saturated Sydney Saturday horse racing by increasing the number of races from 8 to 10 and those extra races are made up of country horses that nobody knows anything about but he knows mugs will bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall so he introduces more races and now NRL games for people to lose their money on.

I believe LESS is MORE! Have the top 12 or 14 (no more) in first division and have a 2nd division where the top two teams are promoted the following year and the below 2 teams are demoted from 1st division. This would make the season more interesting and have more people following if they bring in more teams to make up a 12 team 2nd division competition.
I guess there's a point when the NRL will care about this especially if it affects tv revenue. Then they may actually put real measures in place to even up teams and genuinely spread the talent.
 

TwinTurbo

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I remember that. I couldn't understand why it was legal (and working) in the AFL but illegal in the NRL
The AFL draft has been around for over 40 years, started in the VFL when players only had to move around Melbourne, not such a big deal. As it was already established they were then able to move it into the AFL. Individual players have challenged it a few times, some successful and some not.

A draft would solve a lot of our problems. You would think the RLPA and NRL could get together and negotiate a deal that works for both sides.
There is no negotiating around the problem of moving 18 year old boys (and girls) away from their family, friends and support network whilst paying them peanuts at the same time.

When the AFL draft a player, both sides have to agree on the move and the terms or it doesn't happen.
From memory, in the AFL there is a penalty for refusing to go where you are drafted in that you have to sit out of the system for the period of the initial contract which is 2 years.

In the AFL teams tanking late in the season is not unusual, so that they get a higher draft pick. The Melbourne Demons were fined $500,000 by the AFL in 2009 for what everyone knows was tanking.

Can you imagine a local junior being happy to be forced to play for someone else when he has always wanted to play for his local team, the team he has supported all of his life?


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