Trump Vs Clinton - Debate #3

[Indiandog]

That's not really the best measure. Most of the debt that comes in during a President's time in office is due to policies put in place by the former President. That's why they say that you can't really see the effects of a President until after he retires. That said, Obama served a double so a lot of that debt is him.

Also, the debt under Bush started at $5.73 trillion. When Bush left office it was $10.63 trillion. Currently it is $19.5 trillion.

to be fair Bush went through the worst financial crisis since the great depression. At the start of his run the debt was no where near the figure you have quoted. The total debt of the country was 6 trillion dollars immediately after GFC , that was in 2008 ad he finished in 2009 so your numbers are wrong.

All Obama and Feds have done is print money and more money and more money and drop interest rates and drop more and drop even more, pumped up the economy artificially , kept on kicking the debt can and made it bigger with every kick.

I have been yelling out on this forum for last few years that economically and financially USA is absolutely fucked and after having close to zero % unemployment and real estate market is now booming (as we have been told), they are all set to increase the interest rates up by another 0.25%!!. lol

 

[Hacky McAxe]

So who would you have voted for?

Johnson.

I dislike Hillary and Trump. The one bonus for Hillary is that she's actually a politician and Trump is a major unknown. The downside is that we know Hillary would most likely start a war with Russia and continue bombing hospitals. The problem with Trump is that he's unknown.

If I honestly had to pick between the two I probably would have voted for Trump out of morbid curiosity to see where it leads.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

to be fair Bush went through the worst financial crisis since the great depression. At the start of his run the debt was no where near the figure you have quoted. The total debt of the country was 6 trillion dollars immediately after GFC , that was in 2008 ad he finished in 2009 so your numbers are wrong.

All Obama and Feds have done is print money and more money and more money and drop interest rates and drop more and drop even more, pumped up the economy artificially , kept on kicking the debt can and made it bigger with every kick.

I have been yelling out on this forum for last few years that economically and financially USA is absolutely fucked and after having close to zero % unemployment and real estate market is now booming (as we have been told), they are all set to increase the interest rates up by another 0.25%!!. lol

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../rand-paul-debt-has-tripled-bush-took-office/

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

"Barack Obama - The national debt grew the most dollar-wise during President Obama's two terms. He added $7.917 trillion, a 68 percent increase, in seven years."

"George W. Bush - President Bush added the second greatest amount to the debt, at $5.849 trillion. But that was a 101 percent increase to the debt. It was $5.8 trillion on September 30, 2001. That's the end of FY 2001, which was President Clinton's last budget."

You need to keep in mind that the President's debt counts from the end of the first financial year they take office to the end of the first financial year after they leave office. So Obama's debt will keep accumulating for another year.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Here's an interesting graph on what could have happened to the debt if Reagan and Bush Snr put more effort into balancing their budgets:

 

[Indiandog]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../rand-paul-debt-has-tripled-bush-took-office/

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

"Barack Obama - The national debt grew the most dollar-wise during President Obama's two terms. He added $7.917 trillion, a 68 percent increase, in seven years."

"George W. Bush - President Bush added the second greatest amount to the debt, at $5.849 trillion. But that was a 101 percent increase to the debt. It was $5.8 trillion on September 30, 2001. That's the end of FY 2001, which was President Clinton's last budget."

You need to keep in mind that the President's debt counts from the end of the first financial year they take office to the end of the first financial year after they leave office. So Obama's debt will keep accumulating for another year.

Keep in mind Bush had to deal with the debt mountain which happened due to GFC which was no fault of his.

there are more people on food stamps now in America then ever before, so that is another measure of how how bad it was under Obama.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Keep in mind Bush had to deal with the debt mountain which happened due to GFC which was no fault of his.

there are more people on food stamps now in America then ever before, so that is another measure of how how bad it was under Obama.

Yep. That's why that chart shows the effects of the GFC along with Reagan and Bush Snr burning money. Realistically if none of that happened there would be barely any debt during W Bush's time in office. The only real debt problem he created was choosing to invade the Middle East while the country was already in debt. Obama took the approach of ignoring the debt in an effort to help the poor while ignoring the economic fallout.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Of course you haven't. Turn off cnn and get your head out of your ass. Carrier air conditioning. Google it.

Of course it's relevant. Your opinion carries great weight. Have you personally told Trump you don't condone Osama's actions? It'll mean a lot to him coming from you. Osama added 9 trillion dollars debt to the economy with nothing to show for it. Paid a 400 million dollar ransom to Iran and swapped five al qaeda terrorists for one traitor.

Yes, tribalism can be connected with anything and not just sport. You're a fucking genius for pointing that out.

Yeah, that's a selling point. Your sweet heart Clinton is no more and your dear leader sanders is nothing. They tried to get what Trump got and failed. They're left with nothing, Trump is winning all around.

First off, you’re TRYING to use Obama as a beat down stick, the fact that I don’t agree with all of Obama’s policy NEGATES your use of Obama. So does my opinion carry great weight in general? No. Does my opinion, of Obama, carry weight when you’re trying to use it as a beat down stick? Hell yeah it does. Do you see how this arguing/debate thing works? Are the rats running in the wheel fast enough to process it? You bring up a point, I bring up a counter-point, not that hard to comprehend, hey?

Secondly, you’re displaying tribalism, pointing out the lack of objectivity in your points, pointing out the cognitive dissonance.

Trump is winning all round and you’re taking grace in this “winning”, even though his “winning” has sweet ferk all to do with you. Clap, clap, clap!

Haha. Typical communist response. Save a thousand jobs and still salty. And look at the propaganda you're sourcing. The kings, behind cnn, of fake news Washington Compost.

There are 12.33 million manufacturing jobs in the USA, Trump has “saved” 1000 jobs from Carrier moving to Mexico. Here’s the facts around Carrier keeping 1000 jobs in Indiana:-

• Carrier had planned to take 2000 jobs to Mexico, after negotiations with Trump and Pence, Carrier will be keeping 1000jobs in Indiana but still be sending 1000 jobs to Mexico
• The negotiations consist of $750,000 being paid to carrier and $7 million in State tax breaks (deregulation).
• $7 million less for the state of Indiana, $7 million that is either going to result in a loss of spending for the state, or an increase in taxes for the people of Indiana.
• Those 1000 jobs represent 0.008% of all manufacturing jobs in the US, not even 1% of manufacturing jobs
• What this has achieved is Trumps grandstanding that he “saved” 1000 jobs, but it’s also made all other manufacturing companies aware that they can hold Trump to ransom
• Sound economic policy or short term grandstanding? If you can’t see it for what it truly is……

Oh, so now we're waiting before we pass judgement, are we? Didn't give Trump that luxury an hour ago before I educated you...

No read again, we’re looking at SoftBank’s intentions, not Trumps. Historically speaking, it would be safe to assume that the Republicans and Trump himself will push for deregulation and tax breaks to corporations. SoftBank immediately sees saving measures and an ability to shift profits with little tax paid OUT OF THE US ECONOMY and into Japan.

Add to this that there was already speculation that SoftBank were looking to invest into the US, regardless of who won the election.

So again taking this as a Trump victory is clutching at straws.

I like how everyone laughed at Trump and accused of making up the 4 billion dollar price tag regarding the air force one planes. Turns out, ONCE AGAIN, he was right. The cost will reach 4.3 billion.

FFS Trump insinuated that $4 billion dollars was going straight to Boeing and that it was for ONE plane. The $4 billion is going to TWO planes, and it isn’t going to Boeing alone. Boeing doesn’t manufacture many of the security and electrical components needed of an airborne WHITE HOUSE, and then the ridiculous assertion that Trump’s private jet would suffice, FFS!!!!


The amount of stupid, FFS the amount of idiocy to come out of Trumps mouth and you’re lapping it up.

I educated you, you peasant. You had no idea about carrier air conditioning until you put down the communist manifesto, turned cnn off and took your head out of your own ass.

If you wanna be a socialist, stupid **** in the future. Educate yourself before you speak to me so you don't look like the fucking idiot you did.

Again, you educated nothing.

I hadn’t heard of Carrier, but having researched it, read up about it, and seeing it for what it is, a cheap political ploy. A very short sighted, grovelling at Carrier’s feet bribe.

If they’re the kind of “policies” (and ferk I use that term very loosely, it’s anything but a policy) that rock your boat, no wonder we get numpties like Abbott and Trump voted in to lead nations.

 

[K E]

 

[Indiandog]

Yep. That's why that chart shows the effects of the GFC along with Reagan and Bush Snr burning money. Realistically if none of that happened there would be barely any debt during W Bush's time in office. The only real debt problem he created was choosing to invade the Middle East while the country was already in debt. Obama took the approach of ignoring the debt in an effort to help the poor while ignoring the economic fallout.

Cant believe the president who was busy with his "personal" matters more than the presidential matters during his tenure actually is the only president who brought the debt down from where he started, in the last 40 odd years.

and that was President Bill Clinton , FMD!

 

[Indiandog]

Russians are not IT gurus, they used Indian IT specialists to do that job for them.

 

[K E]

First off, you’re TRYING to use Obama as a beat down stick, the fact that I don’t agree with all of Obama’s policy NEGATES your use of Obama. So does my opinion carry great weight in general? No. Does my opinion, of Obama, carry weight when y

First off, you’re TRYING to use Obama as a beat down stick, the fact that I don’t agree with all of Obama’s policy NEGATES your use of Obama. So does my opinion carry great weight in general? No. Does my opinion, of Obama, carry weight when you’re trying to use it as a beat down stick? Hell yeah it does. Do you see how this arguing/debate thing works? Are the rats running in the wheel fast enough to process it? You bring up a point, I bring up a counter-point, not that hard to comprehend, hey?

Secondly, you’re displaying tribalism, pointing out the lack of objectivity in your points, pointing out the cognitive dissonance.

Trump is winning all round and you’re taking grace in this “winning”, even though his “winning” has sweet ferk all to do with you. Clap, clap, clap!




There are 12.33 million manufacturing jobs in the USA, Trump has “saved” 1000 jobs from Carrier moving to Mexico. Here’s the facts around Carrier keeping 1000 jobs in Indiana:-

• Carrier had planned to take 2000 jobs to Mexico, after negotiations with Trump and Pence, Carrier will be keeping 1000jobs in Indiana but still be sending 1000 jobs to Mexico
• The negotiations consist of $750,000 being paid to carrier and $7 million in State tax breaks (deregulation).
• $7 million less for the state of Indiana, $7 million that is either going to result in a loss of spending for the state, or an increase in taxes for the people of Indiana.
• Those 1000 jobs represent 0.008% of all manufacturing jobs in the US, not even 1% of manufacturing jobs
• What this has achieved is Trumps grandstanding that he “saved” 1000 jobs, but it’s also made all other manufacturing companies aware that they can hold Trump to ransom
• Sound economic policy or short term grandstanding? If you can’t see it for what it truly is……

No read again, we’re looking at SoftBank’s intentions, not Trumps. Historically speaking, it would be safe to assume that the Republicans and Trump himself will push for deregulation and tax breaks to corporations. SoftBank immediately sees saving measures and an ability to shift profits with little tax paid OUT OF THE US ECONOMY and into Japan.

Add to this that there was already speculation that SoftBank were looking to invest into the US, regardless of who won the election.

So again taking this as a Trump victory is clutching at straws.



FFS Trump insinuated that $4 billion dollars was going straight to Boeing and that it was for ONE plane. The $4 billion is going to TWO planes, and it isn’t going to Boeing alone. Boeing doesn’t manufacture many of the security and electrical components needed of an airborne WHITE HOUSE, and then the ridiculous assertion that Trump’s private jet would suffice, FFS!!!!


The amount of stupid, FFS the amount of idiocy to come out of Trumps mouth and you’re lapping it up.



Again, you educated nothing.

I hadn’t heard of Carrier, but having researched it, read up about it, and seeing it for what it is, a cheap political ploy. A very short sighted, grovelling at Carrier’s feet bribe.

If they’re the kind of “policies” (and ferk I use that term very loosely, it’s anything but a policy) that rock your boat, no wonder we get numpties like Abbott and Trump voted in to lead nations.

ou’re trying to use it as a beat down stick? Hell yeah it does. Do you see how this arguing/debate thing works? Are the rats running in the wheel fast enough to process it? You bring up a point, I bring up a counter-point, not that hard to comprehend, hey?

Secondly, you’re displaying tribalism, pointing out the lack of objectivity in your points, pointing out the cognitive dissonance.

Trump is winning all round and you’re taking grace in this “winning”, even though his “winning” has sweet ferk all to do with you. Clap, clap, clap!




There are 12.33 million manufacturing jobs in the USA, Trump has “saved” 1000 jobs from Carrier moving to Mexico. Here’s the facts around Carrier keeping 1000 jobs in Indiana:-

• Carrier had planned to take 2000 jobs to Mexico, after negotiations with Trump and Pence, Carrier will be keeping 1000jobs in Indiana but still be sending 1000 jobs to Mexico
• The negotiations consist of $750,000 being paid to carrier and $7 million in State tax breaks (deregulation).
• $7 million less for the state of Indiana, $7 million that is either going to result in a loss of spending for the state, or an increase in taxes for the people of Indiana.
• Those 1000 jobs represent 0.008% of all manufacturing jobs in the US, not even 1% of manufacturing jobs
• What this has achieved is Trumps grandstanding that he “saved” 1000 jobs, but it’s also made all other manufacturing companies aware that they can hold Trump to ransom
• Sound economic policy or short term grandstanding? If you can’t see it for what it truly is……

No read again, we’re looking at SoftBank’s intentions, not Trumps. Historically speaking, it would be safe to assume that the Republicans and Trump himself will push for deregulation and tax breaks to corporations. SoftBank immediately sees saving measures and an ability to shift profits with little tax paid OUT OF THE US ECONOMY and into Japan.

Add to this that there was already speculation that SoftBank were looking to invest into the US, regardless of who won the election.

So again taking this as a Trump victory is clutching at straws.



FFS Trump insinuated that $4 billion dollars was going straight to Boeing and that it was for ONE plane. The $4 billion is going to TWO planes, and it isn’t going to Boeing alone. Boeing doesn’t manufacture many of the security and electrical components needed of an airborne WHITE HOUSE, and then the ridiculous assertion that Trump’s private jet would suffice, FFS!!!!


The amount of stupid, FFS the amount of idiocy to come out of Trumps mouth and you’re lapping it up.



Again, you educated nothing.

I hadn’t heard of Carrier, but having researched it, read up about it, and seeing it for what it is, a cheap political ploy. A very short sighted, grovelling at Carrier’s feet bribe.

If they’re the kind of “policies” (and ferk I use that term very loosely, it’s anything but a policy) that rock your boat, no wonder we get numpties like Abbott and Trump voted in to lead nations.

First up, fuck you and your multi quote. I'll just quote your brainwashed communist propaganda in one post.

Regardless whether you agree with ALL of Osama's policies is irrelevant. That **** is a poster child for stupid ***** like yourself. He's done fuck all but every brainwashed leftard votes for him, so you follow on.

I'm not being objective says the brainwashed socialist ****... Good one. Trump saves jobs and you shit on him. If he saved your job, would you still put shit on him then?

Trump winning or losing also has nothing to do with you yet here you are you fucking idiot.

Fuck you and your twisted "stats". Jobs saved are jobs saved. Are any of the thousand people complaining? Asswipes like you would still find something to complain about if Trump cured cancer.

Again, do your research, you peasant. The four billion was for the air force one PROGRAM. You can tell you watch cnn like the rest of you commies.

I've already shit on your carrier sook so read above. Fuck you and your politics. Don't make me educate you again, boy.

 

[CaptainJackson]

First up, fuck you and your multi quote. I'll just quote your brainwashed communist propaganda in one post.

Regardless whether you agree with ALL of Osama's policies is irrelevant. That **** is a poster child for stupid ***** like yourself. He's done fuck all but every brainwashed leftard votes for him, so you follow on.

I'm not being objective says the brainwashed socialist ****... Good one. Trump saves jobs and you shit on him. If he saved your job, would you still put shit on him then?

Trump winning or losing also has nothing to do with you yet here you are you fucking idiot.

Fuck you and your twisted "stats". Jobs saved are jobs saved. Are any of the thousand people complaining? Asswipes like you would still find something to complain about if Trump cured cancer.

Again, do your research, you peasant. The four billion was for the air force one PROGRAM. You can tell you watch cnn like the rest of you commies.

I've already shit on your carrier sook so read above. Fuck you and your politics. Don't make me educate you again, boy.

I think my comment of "the amount of stupid " is a fair summarization of your post. Hence no need to reply point by point again

 

[K E]

I think my comment of "the amount of stupid " is a fair summarization of your post. Hence no need to reply point by point again

Wrong. Schooled again, boy.

 

[Flanagun]

Wrong. Schooled again, boy.

Dude you are just throwing around cheap insults, regurgitating republican talking points and refusing to listen to what's being said to you. You're not schooling anyone. You're demonstrating your ignorance and lack of willingness to learn from someone else's perspective.

I'll happily listen to your opinions, even respect them as much as I disagree with them...but the minute you start going around calling anyone who disagrees with you a commie and start blatantly ignoring what other people are saying to you (you've been repeatedly told Eeee doesn't advocate many of Obama's policies and a number of lefties on this post have pointed out they do not like or agree with the neocon direction the democrats have taken.) You choose to blatantly ignore all this information and insinuate lefties are just pathetic, whiny sheep who are incapable of critical thought. That's just plain bullshit. Most people, whether they be left or right leaning, just mindlessly swallow talking points of their preferred party/ ideology and engage in team sport politics IMO....but Eeeee has raised quite a few good, critical points that you haven't even acknowledged as yet.

I'm not really having a go. You obviously have a right to your opinions and to think lefties are group thinking pussies if you want (even if presented evidence to the contrary)

I think many from both "sides" of politics are guilty of just yelling at the other "team" and not really listening. I think that's why society is so fractured these days. Neither the left or right is entirely to blame. There is a fair bit of cognitive disonnance in evidence on both "sides" of the political fence these days IMO. So many people pointing their finger outwards when they could just as easily be pointing that same finger inwards at themselves.

Honestly it's possible to have leftist values and still think neocon politics/"values" are a steaming pile of horseshit. It really is.

 

[K E]

Dude you are just throwing around cheap insults, regurgitating republican talking points and refusing to listen to what's being said to you. You're not schooling anyone. You're demonstrating your ignorance and lack of willingness to learn from someone else's perspective.

I'll happily listen to your opinions, even respect them as much as I disagree with them...but the minute you start going around calling anyone who disagrees with you a commie and start blatantly ignoring what other people are saying to you (you've been repeatedly told Eeee doesn't advocate many of Obama's policies snd is not really a fan and a number of lefties on this post have pointed out they do not like or agree with the neocon direction the democrats have taken. You choose to blatantly ignore all this information and insinuate lefties are just patheyic, whiny sheep who are incapable of critical thought. That's just plain bullshit. Most people, both left and right leaning just mindlessly swallowtalking points and engage in team sport politics IMO....but Eeeee has raised quite a few good, critical points that you haven't even acknowledged as yet.

I'm not really having a go. You obviously have a right to your opinions and to think ledtiesare group thinking pussies if you want (even if presented evidence to the contrary)

I think the left and right are both guilty of just yelling at the other "team" and not really listening and I think Thats why society is so fractured these days. Neither the left or right is entirely to blame. There is a cognitive disonnance and non constructive lack of yoke range of opposing views on display from both major teams st the moment.

Honestly it's possible to have leftist values and still think neocon politics/"values" are a steaming pile of horseshit. It really is.

Whatever you've said about me can be said about that arrogant twat eeeeeeee. He, too, demonstrated an unwillingness to accept facts and put a negative spin on them.

I did educate him, for the record. It was "news to him" regarding Carrier air con and SoftBank.

I don't go around throwing insults at people. I've never sworn to or at you have I? I would never and have never attacked anyone because they have opposite political beliefs. My in law's are all Labor voters.

I've attacked that arrogant asshole because the way he speaks to people. He adores the sound of his own voice and can't comprehend why people like Trump. It's his smug wording which is why I attack him and will continue to do so.

I don't care what someone believes, doesn't believe, what someone's political leanings are, sexual preference. Whatever. I can handle that. I can't handle arrogance.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Dude you are just throwing around cheap insults, regurgitating republican talking points and refusing to listen to what's being said to you. You're not schooling anyone. You're demonstrating your ignorance and lack of willingness to learn from someone else's perspective.

I'll happily listen to your opinions, even respect them as much as I disagree with them...but the minute you start going around calling anyone who disagrees with you a commie and start blatantly ignoring what other people are saying to you (you've been repeatedly told Eeee doesn't advocate many of Obama's policies snd is not really a fan and a number of lefties on this post have pointed out they do not like or agree with the neocon direction the democrats have taken. You choose to blatantly ignore all this information and insinuate lefties are just patheyic, whiny sheep who are incapable of critical thought. That's just plain bullshit. Most people, both left and right leaning just mindlessly swallowtalking points and engage in team sport politics IMO....but Eeeee has raised quite a few good, critical points that you haven't even acknowledged as yet.

I'm not really having a go. You obviously have a right to your opinions and to think ledtiesare group thinking pussies if you want (even if presented evidence to the contrary)

I think the left and right are both guilty of just yelling at the other "team" and not really listening and I think Thats why society is so fractured these days. Neither the left or right is entirely to blame. There is a cognitive disonnance and non constructive lack of yoke range of opposing views on display from both major teams st the moment.

Honestly it's possible to have leftist values and still think neocon politics/"values" are a steaming pile of horseshit. It really is.

See had these slogan bearing ignorants bothered to ask, I do prefer a free market economy, with regulations. A model much like the Scandanavian countries, where there is a 60 to 70% union participation by the workforce, where they can negotiate their pay and working conditions, i.e. workers have actual power to negotiate this with business, with the government purely acting as a mediator.

Such things like Health and Education are basic human rights, and everyone should be paying their fare share for these basic human rights.

After all:-

• It's a higher level of public education which advances a nations economy, as it provides talented and skilled individuals to join the work force, the same individuals who business use for innovation and profits
• It's a higher level of public health which keeps a nations people/resources fit and healthy to make that nation productive

In the end these basic human rights not only are beneficial for people but business and the advancement of our society. It's simply a matter of giving people every chance to succeed in life, and then leaving it up to them if they do or not.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Whatever you've said about me can be said about that arrogant twat eeeeeeee. He, too, demonstrated an unwillingness to accept facts and put a negative spin on them.

I did educate him, for the record. It was "news to him" regarding Carrier air con and SoftBank.

I don't go around throwing insults at people. I've never sworn to or at you have I? I would never and have never attacked anyone because they have opposite political beliefs. My in law's are all Labor voters.

I've attacked that arrogant asshole because the way he speaks to people. He adores the sound of his own voice and can't comprehend why people like Trump. It's his smug wording which is why I attack him and will continue to do so.

I don't care what someone believes, doesn't believe, what someone's political leanings are, sexual preference. Whatever. I can handle that. I can't handle arrogance.

Unwillingness to accept facts? hahahahaha

Negative spin on them? calling it out objectively is of course negative spin

My smug word and arrogance but it's fantastic when Trump does it. Trump's tweeting is filled with smugness and arrogance, but that's all ok because its the Grand Supreme oompa loompa.

No why you're so aggravated is because the points you raise simply don't stand up to the litmus test.

 

[K E]

Unwillingness to accept facts? hahahahaha

Negative spin on them? calling it out objectively is of course negative spin

My smug word and arrogance but it's fantastic when Trump does it. Trump's tweeting is filled with smugness and arrogance, but that's all ok because its the Grand Supreme oompa loompa.

No why you're so aggravated is because the points you raise simply don't stand up to the litmus test.

Yeah, ****. Unwillingness. You failed to answer my question. If your job was saved, would you be happy or would you still put a negative spin on it?

Give and take. Trump gives as good as he gets. He was destroyed by 99% of the media and still is. It's a shame your dear leader sanders couldn't handle Hillary. Who knows what would've happened?

Aggravated? I told you, I think your cute. You and your socialist beliefs and your devotion to the loser sanders. I love you people. So cute.

 

[Flanagun]

Whatever you've said about me can be said about that arrogant twat eeeeeeee. He, too, demonstrated an unwillingness to accept facts and put a negative spin on them.

I did educate him, for the record. It was "news to him" regarding Carrier air con and SoftBank.

I don't go around throwing insults at people. I've never sworn to or at you have I? I would never and have never attacked anyone because they have opposite political beliefs. My in law's are all Labor voters.

I've attacked that arrogant asshole because the way he speaks to people. He adores the sound of his own voice and can't comprehend why people like Trump. It's his smug wording which is why I attack him and will continue to do so.

I don't care what someone believes, doesn't believe, what someone's political leanings are, sexual preference. Whatever. I can handle that. I can't handle arrogance.

Fair enough mate....

I'm not meaning to take sides ...I suppose I just get annoyed by the insinuation that all left leaning people are HRC and Obama loving neocons who can't recognise a bit of establishmebtcsanctioned propaganda when they see it. I'm not meaning to impose myself on the argument. I just personally get annoyed by certain people who can't understand I'm a left leaning person who doesn't agree with the DNC's direction these days. Maybe I was projecting that frustration a bit. Just want it to be perfectly clear that I'm a left leaning guy and definitely no fan of the DNC these days.

That was a point I noticed Eeeee trying to make that I personally agree with. The whole politics not being a team sport.

Didn't mean to sound rude. I guess the comment about you not educating him was rude. It was just me being frustrated because I didn't feel you were acknowledging certain things that were important to me...maybe a bit of emotional bias on my part....my bad.

No you've never cursed at me haha...and we all engage in internet hyperbole. I don't mind if people want to curse and be hyperbolic on the net, that's pretty much what you expect on the net.

I think we need to move a bit beyond those black and white/ good vs bad interpretations of political ideologies. There's a lot of grey area these days. I guess I really just wanted to support that point because I strongly agree with it. Not meaning to make sides and I definitely respect everyone's right to an opinion whether it coincides with mine or not haha.

 

[Flanagun]

See had these slogan bearing ignorants bothered to ask, I do prefer a free market economy, with regulations. A model much like the Scandanavian countries, where there is a 60 to 70% union participation by the workforce, where they can negotiate their pay and working conditions, i.e. workers have actual power to negotiate this with business, with the government purely acting as a mediator.

Such things like Health and Education are basic human rights, and everyone should be paying their fare share for these basic human rights.

After all:-

• It's a higher level of public education which advances a nations economy, as it provides talented and skilled individuals to join the work force, the same individuals who business use for innovation and profits
• It's a higher level of public health which keeps a nations people/resources fit and healthy to make that nation productive

In the end these basic human rights not only are beneficial for people but business and the advancement of our society. It's simply a matter of giving people every chance to succeed in life, and then leaving it up to them if they do or not.

Agreed. Our ideas seem pretty similar in terms of socio economic policies. I am a big fan of the Scandinavian model as well. Big difference between being a socialist and a social democrat! If I were to give myself any political label it would be the latter.