Tolman staying

[Kelpie03]

The relentless hate for tolman is fucking rediculous!!! Its not his fault he was offered a contract. It was not his idea to be tackled on the 4th every time. And it was not so long ago he was mentioned as a possible SOO player.
Him and graham had a lot to do with us being a solid defensive team. Sure we need to improve our attack from last year, and we have. But i think that without tolman and graham in the middle we are defensively weaker.
I posted in another thread that i think it would be good to have tolman at lock to soak up the initial onslaught and then bring fualalo to replace him after 15-20 mins, and play out the half. He can then enjoy the half time spell and come back on for the second half with tolman closing out the last 15 mins.

You're idea sounds good to me, let Tolman tackle all day we have the forwards who can bend the line and it probably takes up as much energy to make a tackle as it does to take the ball up 8--10 metres. All the so called experts pick the players who they think should be in the SOO team, very funny how before SOO just last year Jim Dymock picked Tolman as a NSW starting prop for his SOO team.

 

[Kelpie03]

This might be a sill idea but with Eastwood having ticker problems Pay should continue to play him for long minutes if possible, then he will either improve his fitness or find out that he can no longer play the game, and be medically retired saving the club money,

 

[rainman]

No one wants him.

Telling...

" nobody wants him,they just turn their heads"

 

[The 2nd Spitter]

I feel sorry for him but I'd guess there's resentment there given that he was haslers favourite player and what some think of hasler, ie the resentment for hasler is pushed onto tolman.

Lichaa was one the most criticized players on the Kennel during Hasler's tenure, yetmost people here are prepared to give him a second chance. Why not Tolman?

 

[Z-Dizzle]

We had 3 middle forwards come on this past weekend. One of them made more than 30 metres.

I don’t know why Tolman is everyone’s pick to be dropped when both Elliot (27 metres) and Eastwood (11 metres) were both worse. Eastwood made 11 tackles and missed 3. Tolman (23 tackles 0 missed) may not be ideal on the bench, but he definitely deserves the spot over Eastwood.

Tolman is also adapting to a new role, and I agree with Gotenks physically he doesn’t have the size to be an impact bench forward, I think he deserves a few more weeks to adapt to the different role considering he more than any other player was regimented into a desball role. If in round 6 he still has no impact (and the other bench forwards are better than him) drop him for someone with more impact in NSW Cup. But I definitely think he’ll continue to outperform Eastwood at least.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Lichaa was one the most criticized players on the Kennel during Hasler's tenure, yetmost people here are prepared to give him a second chance. Why not Tolman?

Because Lichaa's poor performances were not down to physical or skill based deficiencies in his game, same as Mbye.

 

[The 2nd Spitter]

Because Lichaa's poor performances were not down to physical or skill based deficiencies in his game, same as Mbye.

While i get the difference, i should also point out there was a time (2011-13) where many analysts were saying that Tolman was desperately unlucky not to play SoO. Sure he has regressed since then, but his basic skillset must be buried deep down somewhere.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

While i get the difference, i should also point out there was a time (2011-13) where many analysts were saying that Tolman was desperately unlucky not to play SoO. Sure he has regressed since then, but his basic skillset must be buried deep down somewhere.

It was a different game back then and a tradional workhorse type player was more valuable than they are today. These days the players are more explosive and it's more about getting high intensity minutes out of them. Tolman just doesn't stack up against them anymore and he doesn't have the skills to make up for it.

 

[speedy2460]

They're hardly excuses and I didn't accuse any particular person of bagging Stagg or Ryan. But they both came under fire here because they didn't get people excited like some other players do with the things that look flashy. A lot of people think the only way to construct a good team is to have exciting players in every position. The roosters have spent years trying to get game breakers in every position and have not won a huge number of comps because of it. Everything I've said has been a statement of opinion that Tolman was asked to play a role and has played that role.

I don't doubt that Graham stopped the ball playing that he was renowned for when we signed him because it was what he was asked to do. I don't doubt that Ennis dropped his dummy half runs which was part of why we recruited him because he was asked to. And to an extent Tolman has sacrificed the amount of impact he made with each run in order to play long minutes in my opinion. My opinion is as valid as anyones here. It's a bit of a hypocritical thing to say that certain players were stifled by a coach and deny that others weren't. Thats the main point I'm getting at. Rather than being garbage, it's just a different opinion to yours. I may be wrong as might you. But neither of us is the one in charge of deciding. For anyone that respects Pays opinion, it will be his decision to make about whether Tolman stays in the side and all the complaining of people who don't like Tolmans contribution is fairly pointless if Pay thinks he's the best person to play a certain role.

The forum is a way for people to state their personal opinion. However some people on here think they are the most knowledgeable on all topics of Rugby league.
Well I have some bad news for some posters. Your opinions are just that..opinions. Some posters think they are always right and wont accept any other opinions.
I think its time for all to take a deep breath and let Dean Pay make the decisions. After all he has had a lifetime in footy at all grades, and I think he knows his stuff.

 

[The 2nd Spitter]

It was a different game back then and a tradional workhorse type player was more valuable than they are today. These days the players are more explosive and it's more about getting high intensity minutes out of them. Tolman just doesn't stack up against them anymore and he doesn't have the skills to make up for it.

I feel much of the hate directed at Tolman is because of his admittedly ridiculous contract, which is really not his fault. He's definitely more suited to the ESL, and hopefully like Frank Pritchard, will realise finishing his career there will be the best move financially. (I realise Frankie finished his career at Parra, but their stupidity for signing a 34 year old).

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I feel much of the hate directed at Tolman is because of his admittedly ridiculous contract, which is really not his fault. He's definitely more suited to the ESL, and hopefully like Frank Pritchard, will realise finishing his career there will be the best move financially. (I realise Frankie finished his career at Parra, but their stupidity for signing a 34 year old).

Probably because he's the poster boy for Desball lol. People are just frustrated seeing him constantly getting dominated and would rather give another player a crack and develop them instead.

 

[flamebouyant]

I've watched the game 3 times now and tolman had nothing to do with us losing as you said it was just some lazy defence that let us down which im sure can be easily fixed

We competed really well in every facet. It was just 3 missed tackles that lead to trys, and then ado-carrs thief in the night try.

 

[flamebouyant]

I'm sorry but that's garbage. I personally have never bagged Andrew Ryan or Stagg, in fact Andrew Ryan is one of my favourite bulldogs players.

As far as Lichaa and Mbye being provided a second chance under a new coach, that's because they showed some glimpses to OTHER aspects of their games. Tolman hasn't, full stop. Tolman has showed the same garbage he's been dishing up for the past 4 seasons.

I've never seen any other player be afforded the amount of excuses Tolman gets.

Calm down mate. He didnt name you.

 

[GoTheDoggies]

Pay needs to drop Eastwood & Tolman. Look at how Seibold has dealt with Farah.

If they are old and not good enough they go. Not buying the "workhorse" argument. Enough is enough, the last straw was Tolman getting dominated by a rookie Newcastle pack at Belmore last year.

 

[GoTheDoggies]

Think back to Alvaro vs Graham & Tolman last year. Embarrassing.

 

[CaptainJackson]

They're hardly excuses and I didn't accuse any particular person of bagging Stagg or Ryan. But they both came under fire here because they didn't get people excited like some other players do with the things that look flashy. A lot of people think the only way to construct a good team is to have exciting players in every position. The roosters have spent years trying to get game breakers in every position and have not won a huge number of comps because of it. Everything I've said has been a statement of opinion that Tolman was asked to play a role and has played that role.

I don't doubt that Graham stopped the ball playing that he was renowned for when we signed him because it was what he was asked to do. I don't doubt that Ennis dropped his dummy half runs which was part of why we recruited him because he was asked to. And to an extent Tolman has sacrificed the amount of impact he made with each run in order to play long minutes in my opinion. My opinion is as valid as anyones here. It's a bit of a hypocritical thing to say that certain players were stifled by a coach and deny that others weren't. Thats the main point I'm getting at. Rather than being garbage, it's just a different opinion to yours. I may be wrong as might you. But neither of us is the one in charge of deciding. For anyone that respects Pays opinion, it will be his decision to make about whether Tolman stays in the side and all the complaining of people who don't like Tolmans contribution is fairly pointless if Pay thinks he's the best person to play a certain role.

I can't buy any excuse for tolman because the past 4 seasons he has not shown a single bit of evidence that his game was being hampered by desball.

He was Des knight in shining armour, the "best prop in the game".

His tackle stats beefed up by the fact he got more minutes than nearly all other forwards in the comp But those same stats don't show how ineffective most of his tackles were.

The game has passed him by, That's all there is to it. I go back to my original point, I'll shut up the moment tolman proves me wrong.

But while I see Marty tapau carry tolman for 30 post contact metres, or in another tapau hit up the only way tolman could stop him was by pulling on his hair, or alvaro shrug him off (as the main tackler) and score a try or beau Scott shrug him off at the line for an offload and a try, or the countless times he dominated in a tackle for a slow play the ball, I won't change my tune.

Graham and tolman as our starting front rowers absolutely killed us from the kick off last season. It was time for both of them to go, especialy when we picked up woods too.

Tolman was rightfully demoted to the bench but then we saw our bench get dominated by Melbourne's bench, their stats make for absolutely abysmal reading. It was worse than not good enough.

I'd much rather we invest our time in some of our junior power based props, especially if we're taking this as a transition year, get their experience up.

I have no qualms with sitting part of our salary cap in reserves with a view to the future (neither does Dean pay with allowing Eastwood to be named in the reserves)

So when I say it's garbage, don't take it personally, It's just that I see too many excuses being offered for tolman while hardly any excuses for Eastwood (Which most admit it's time for him to go)

 

[CaptainJackson]

Compare Glasbys stats to tolmans as bench forwards who probably got equal amount of time

Ken Bromwich got 89 metres off 8 runs

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I can't buy any excuse for tolman because the past 4 seasons he has not shown a single bit of evidence that his game was being hampered by desball.

He was Des knight in shining armour, the "best prop in the game".

His tackle stats beefed up by the fact he got more minutes than nearly all other forwards in the comp But those same stats don't show how ineffective most of his tackles were.

The game has passed him by, That's all there is to it. I go back to my original point, I'll shut up the moment tolman proves me wrong.

But while I see Marty tapau carry tolman for 30 post contact metres, or in another tapau hit up the only way tolman could stop him was by pulling on his hair, or alvaro shrug him off (as the main tackler) and score a try or beau Scott shrug him off at the line for an offload and a try, or the countless times he dominated in a tackle for a slow play the ball, I won't change my tune.

Graham and tolman as our starting front rowers absolutely killed us from the kick off last season. It was time for both of them to go, especialy when we picked up woods too.

Tolman was rightfully demoted to the bench but then we saw our bench get dominated by Melbourne's bench, their stats make for absolutely abysmal reading. It was worse than not good enough.

I'd much rather we invest our time in some of our junior power based props, especially if we're taking this as a transition year, get their experience up.

I have no qualms with sitting part of our salary cap in reserves with a view to the future (neither does Dean pay with allowing Eastwood to be named in the reserves)

So when I say it's garbage, don't take it personally, It's just that I see too many excuses being offered for tolman while hardly any excuses for Eastwood (Which most admit it's time for him to go)

Did you watch the game again ? And if so please tell me when tolman was completely dominated so i can go back and watch it

Because from what i watched he wasn't the one who missed the tackles that led to the tries , the only thing tolman stuffed up from memory was when he tried to offload in the opposition 20 and turned the ball over.

Let's not forget he was the only player who chased the Frawley kick and tackled the storm player in the in goal for us to get the ball back. At this stage he is the 1st player picked on the bench and deservedly so now its just up to Pay to pick the other 3 players on the bench to find the right balance

 

[KLil]

Think back to Alvaro vs Graham & Tolman last year. Embarrassing.

Dude Alvaro has made plenty look that weak... He does it every week, don't think the kid doesn't have great leg drive.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

View attachment 5281

Compare Glasbys stats to tolmans as bench forwards who probably got equal amount of time

Ken Bromwich got 89 metres off 8 runs

Glssby made 8.4m per run
Tolman made 7.6m per run thats less than 1 metre each run.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that storms linespeed is much better than ours then take into consideration they were offside for majority of the match.

So Tolman and Glasby are very close performance wise and lets not forget Glasby is now an origin player too