Tolman staying

[Bad Billy]

Bro it's ridiculous seriously

Until tolman proves the nay sayers wrong he's always going to cop shit.

The fact remains that no one has seen tolman consistently dominating in a tackle or a hit up

He gets monstered by the new style of forwards today, ie big, strong and mobile

It's all in tolmans hands to shut us up and he hasn't for over 4 seasons.

It’s not fucken hard. Run hard. Tackle hard. That’s all we ask.
It’s not like we’re asking him to head up the space shuttle replacement project?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Im happier with Tolman off the bench rather than have him start , i just think Eastwood and Elliot need to pick their game more then anything as they were very poor on the weekend.

 

[Bad Billy]

Every team needs a Tolman, no frills defensive worker. Look elsewhere for impact.

Not playing off the bench, you don’t.
He’s not good enough to start, and he doesn’t provide any impact off the bench.

 

[KLil]

Unfortunately he has a Ferrari motor on a peewee 50

Lol probably more like Toyota Land cruiser in a Camry... Still reliable. I wouldn't mind seeing him at lock, yes it will slow us down but giving you can bring on Fualalo and Tualau it maybe a solution.

I'd also rip Eastwood out if he displays that rubbish again and just bring in To'omaga and get him NRL ready for the future.

 

[Alan79]

People should at least give Tolman the chance to adjust to his new role without excessive criticism. The expectation placed on him for three or four years was that he'd play most of the game and achieve a high work rate both in defense and in making regular runs. People are willing to give Lichaa and Mbye the benefit of the doubt after both were somewhat lacking in their ability to excel in their past roles. But instead of accepting that Tolman might need time to adjust the lo0udest critics just want to see him out of the top 17 and ultimately off our roster. I really think he's a good enough player to adjust his game if given the chance.

But this place has a history of giving very little respect to workhorse players in positions where they're really a necessity. I always thought it was sad that guys like David Stagg and Andrew Ryan copped so much flack when they played a big role in mopping up a huge share of defense because they didn't tackle with a lot of visible impact or bust the line with any regularity. Plenty of people on this forum even wanted Josh Jackson dumped in his early days.

The coaching and conditioning staff should be working at getting Tolman and others to work at adjusting the way they manage their energy levels on the field to reflect the roles they are playing. And in reality it will take a little time for them to sort this out.

 

[KLil]

People should at least give Tolman the chance to adjust to his new role without excessive criticism. The expectation placed on him for three or four years was that he'd play most of the game and achieve a high work rate both in defense and in making regular runs. People are willing to give Lichaa and Mbye the benefit of the doubt after both were somewhat lacking in their ability to excel in their past roles. But instead of accepting that Tolman might need time to adjust the lo0udest critics just want to see him out of the top 17 and ultimately off our roster. I really think he's a good enough player to adjust his game if given the chance.

But this place has a history of giving very little respect to workhorse players in positions where they're really a necessity. I always thought it was sad that guys like David Stagg and Andrew Ryan copped so much flack when they played a big role in mopping up a huge share of defense because they didn't tackle with a lot of visible impact or bust the line with any regularity. Plenty of people on this forum even wanted Josh Jackson dumped in his early days.

The coaching and conditioning staff should be working at getting Tolman and others to work at adjusting the way they manage their energy levels on the field to reflect the roles they are playing. And in reality it will take a little time for them to sort this out.

People also forget it was his pressure that resulted in a forced restart and his pressure that caused Carr to drop it in order for Frawley to pick it up and score.

 

[CaptainJackson]

People should at least give Tolman the chance to adjust to his new role without excessive criticism. The expectation placed on him for three or four years was that he'd play most of the game and achieve a high work rate both in defense and in making regular runs. People are willing to give Lichaa and Mbye the benefit of the doubt after both were somewhat lacking in their ability to excel in their past roles. But instead of accepting that Tolman might need time to adjust the lo0udest critics just want to see him out of the top 17 and ultimately off our roster. I really think he's a good enough player to adjust his game if given the chance.

But this place has a history of giving very little respect to workhorse players in positions where they're really a necessity. I always thought it was sad that guys like David Stagg and Andrew Ryan copped so much flack when they played a big role in mopping up a huge share of defense because they didn't tackle with a lot of visible impact or bust the line with any regularity. Plenty of people on this forum even wanted Josh Jackson dumped in his early days.

The coaching and conditioning staff should be working at getting Tolman and others to work at adjusting the way they manage their energy levels on the field to reflect the roles they are playing. And in reality it will take a little time for them to sort this out.

I'm sorry but that's garbage. I personally have never bagged Andrew Ryan or Stagg, in fact Andrew Ryan is one of my favourite bulldogs players.

As far as Lichaa and Mbye being provided a second chance under a new coach, that's because they showed some glimpses to OTHER aspects of their games. Tolman hasn't, full stop. Tolman has showed the same garbage he's been dishing up for the past 4 seasons.

I've never seen any other player be afforded the amount of excuses Tolman gets.

 

[KLil]

I'm sorry but that's garbage. I personally have never bagged Andrew Ryan or Stagg, in fact Andrew Ryan is one of my favourite bulldogs players.

As far as Lichaa and Mbye being provided a second chance under a new coach, that's because they showed some glimpses to OTHER aspects of their games. Tolman hasn't, full stop. Tolman has showed the same garbage he's been dishing up for the past 4 seasons.

I've never seen any other player be afforded the amount of excuses Tolman gets.

I wouldn't call it garbage... His work rate for the team is phenomenally consistent and as said before I'm pretty sure everyone on the team appreciates what he does on field.

 

[Natboy]

Every team needs a Tolman, no frills defensive worker. Look elsewhere for impact.

Who would you say the Tolman is in the other 15 teams mate?

 

[CaptainJackson]

I wouldn't call it garbage... His work rate for the team is phenomenally consistent and as said before I'm pretty sure everyone on the team appreciates what he does on field.

You can pull someone from the juniors for the same amount of workrate that tolman does and for less dollars.

Hell put elliot on to do the work that tolman does and given elliot is younger, you can bide your time until elliot bulks up a bit more.

Again, excuse after excuse for tolman.

 

[Bad Billy]

I wouldn't call it garbage... His work rate for the team is phenomenally consistent and as said before I'm pretty sure everyone on the team appreciates what he does on field.

Yea, he’s so shit, he makes everyone else look good.

 

[The 2nd Spitter]

There's no real point letting him go this season, it's not like the Dogs have somebody better lined-up to replace him.

Barring major injury, a team would more willing to snap him up in the offseason with only 2 years remaining. Alternatively a ESL team can give him a 3 year deal which will allow him to play until he is 32.

You can pull someone from the juniors for the same amount of workrate that tolman does and for less dollars.

Hell put elliot on to do the work that tolman does and given elliot is younger, you can bide your time until elliot bulks up a bit more.

No, he doesn't and no such player exists in the reserves or juniors.

I'd rather have three years of Tolman than three years of Eastwood.
We should also be grateful that we (partially) dodged a bullet with Graham.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

I'm sorry but that's garbage. I personally have never bagged Andrew Ryan or Stagg, in fact Andrew Ryan is one of my favourite bulldogs players.

As far as Lichaa and Mbye being provided a second chance under a new coach, that's because they showed some glimpses to OTHER aspects of their games. Tolman hasn't, full stop. Tolman has showed the same garbage he's been dishing up for the past 4 seasons.

I've never seen any other player be afforded the amount of excuses Tolman gets.

Some people refuse to accept the fact that it's Tolman's physical attributes and lack of ability that hold him attacking. Saying he's a workhorse or some other shit is irrelevant these days when physically he isn't up to it. It's like people don't even watch other teams play and understand how the game is played these days.

 

[BlackDawg]

I don't understand why tolman is singled out when most of our edge forwards are plods. Try listing our dynamic forwards and the only one I see any glimmer of hope in is RFM. All the rest rely on barging through a defensive line and they don't even run hard at it...none of them offload in traffic and none of them run outside in lines that straighten up an attack and break a sliding defense. None of them even aim their run at a gap between defenders. The hard reality is the dogs are in a holding pattern until the salary cap debacle unravels and we can offload the duds and recruit offensive forwards.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Some people refuse to accept the fact that it's Tolman's physical attributes and lack of ability that hold him attacking. Saying he's a workhorse or some other shit is irrelevant these days when physically he isn't up to it. It's like people don't even watch other teams play and understand how the game is played these days.

It's plain and simple. He just doesn't possess the physical attributes. The way alvaro and beau Scott got away from one of his tackles for easy parra tries, It's just plain embarrassing.

He darts from dummy half. Great but that's not his bloody job.

No one is lavishing praise on Eastwood or Elliot either . But yet tolman gets all the excuses in the world

What good is being a workhorse if other forwards are carrying tolman for another 10 metres post contact?

 

[CaptainJackson]

I don't understand why tolman is singled out when most of our edge forwards are plods

I feel sorry for him but I'd guess there's resentment there given that he was haslers favourite player and what some think of hasler, ie the resentment for hasler is pushed onto tolman.

 

[The 2nd Spitter]

At Tolman's age it is not unheard of for players to rebound especially under a different coach.

 

[KLil]

You can pull someone from the juniors for the same amount of workrate that tolman does and for less dollars.

Hell put elliot on to do the work that tolman does and given elliot is younger, you can bide your time until elliot bulks up a bit more.

Again, excuse after excuse for tolman.

Excuses for what? We tried to shop him around and it didn't work out and now what do you want, dump a 600k a year forward because what, his not strong enough? What a ridiculous notion.

There is a position for him whether its bench or not but he was the best off the bench last wk so maybe its just a case of the other 2 benchies to do a little more.

Personally i'd throw into Lock to start and bring in Tualau and Fualalo... Atleast then we sure up the middle and get the impact we need.

 

[KLil]

At Tolman's age it is not unheard of for players to rebound especially under a different coach.

Dude Scotth Bolton, SCOTT BOLTON helped take the cows to a GF... SCOTT BOLTON!

 

[Alan79]

I'm sorry but that's garbage. I personally have never bagged Andrew Ryan or Stagg, in fact Andrew Ryan is one of my favourite bulldogs players.

As far as Lichaa and Mbye being provided a second chance under a new coach, that's because they showed some glimpses to OTHER aspects of their games. Tolman hasn't, full stop. Tolman has showed the same garbage he's been dishing up for the past 4 seasons.

I've never seen any other player be afforded the amount of excuses Tolman gets.

They're hardly excuses and I didn't accuse any particular person of bagging Stagg or Ryan. But they both came under fire here because they didn't get people excited like some other players do with the things that look flashy. A lot of people think the only way to construct a good team is to have exciting players in every position. The roosters have spent years trying to get game breakers in every position and have not won a huge number of comps because of it. Everything I've said has been a statement of opinion that Tolman was asked to play a role and has played that role.

I don't doubt that Graham stopped the ball playing that he was renowned for when we signed him because it was what he was asked to do. I don't doubt that Ennis dropped his dummy half runs which was part of why we recruited him because he was asked to. And to an extent Tolman has sacrificed the amount of impact he made with each run in order to play long minutes in my opinion. My opinion is as valid as anyones here. It's a bit of a hypocritical thing to say that certain players were stifled by a coach and deny that others weren't. Thats the main point I'm getting at. Rather than being garbage, it's just a different opinion to yours. I may be wrong as might you. But neither of us is the one in charge of deciding. For anyone that respects Pays opinion, it will be his decision to make about whether Tolman stays in the side and all the complaining of people who don't like Tolmans contribution is fairly pointless if Pay thinks he's the best person to play a certain role.