Tolman staying

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CaptainJackson

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Come on mate, your a smart guy. I know your not a tolman fan, but he does add something to our team. When was the last time you saw a prop forward take a hit up from dummy half on the second tackle?? Our last game. Tolman. He is not as useles as you all suggest. He just doesnt add the razzle dazzle that everyone expects.
He was our best forward off the bench on sat.
Bro we had a quick play the ball, storm were on the retreat and tolman JUST came on. Of course he picked it up and ran from dummy half. He's an opportunist, he does notice those things very quickly and picks the gaps in defence . I'll give him that. But that's not his only job

He gets man handled in defence and attack and being better than the rest of our bench forwards on the weekend is hardly an achievement when they all sucked and played a major part in costing us the gane
 

flamebouyant

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Bro we had a quick play the ball, storm were on the retreat and tolman JUST came on. Of course he picked it up and ran from dummy half. He's an opportunist, he does notice those things very quickly and picks the gaps in defence . I'll give him that. But that's not his only job

He gets man handled in defence and attack and being better than the rest of our bench forwards on the weekend is hardly an achievement when they all sucked and played a major part in costing us the gane
Ok, so being an opportunist is a bad thing? Our bench didnt cost us the game, if you want to identify a particular thing that cost us the game, then jacksons two missed tackles cost us the game. And eastwoods missed tackle. Or perhaps Mbye caughing up the ball to ado-carr?
We were beaten by a better side. Thats it.
 

flamebouyant

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I agree. Some people on here think the NRL is like fantasy Coach. Tolmans not doing it for them so lets trade him. He has a contract and I would rather keep him than pay someone else to have him. He doesn't dominate hit ups but is tidy in defence and can play 80mins. I'm not sure about him on the bench as to me they are meant to be impact players where Tolman is more of a safe solid play all day forward you can depend on when our flashy tough guys get gassed. I know that will not win you any man of the match award but I am guessing his team mates like him around.
Im glad someone else can understand the logic i put forward.
Like you say, let tolman tackle for 80 mins, and use the extra bench rotation for impact.
 

CrittaMagic69

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Nobody hates Tolman, people are just frustrated by him. He just isn't the ideal forward in todays game so there's just very little he can do. His so called motor isn't anywhere near as valuable as some people think because he lacks any sort of impact on the field. He doesn't have the power of a modern forward, he doesn't have quick play the balls, he doesn't have pace or footwork, no real ball playing ability or offload, doesn't hit hard, doesn't run a good line, etc.

Sure Tolman works hard and puts in, he also reads the game well, but without any of the stuff i previously mentioned his strong points almost go to waste and he offers very little. If Tolman was stronger and could bump off a defender or stand in the tackle like Woods then he would be far more valuable. If he had more pace or footwork and could get in between defenders and get a quick play the ball away then again he would be great.

People suggesting he needs to start and play bigger minutes? Lol seriously? He couldn't make an impact off the bench so what the hell kind of impact can he nake starting? Nothing.
 

CaptainJackson

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Ok, so being an opportunist is a bad thing? Our bench didnt cost us the game, if you want to identify a particular thing that cost us the game, then jacksons two missed tackles cost us the game. And eastwoods missed tackle. Or perhaps Mbye caughing up the ball to ado-carr?
We were beaten by a better side. Thats it.
Read my post again, I said I'll give him being an opportunist in a positive light .

Keeping pressure on the opposition is what usually wins you games. When our bench came on we weren't keeping pressure on them, plain and simple
 

flamebouyant

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Nobody hates Tolman, people are just frustrated by him. He just isn't the ideal forward in todays game so there's just very little he can do. His so called motor isn't anywhere near as valuable as some people think because he lacks any sort of impact on the field. He doesn't have the power of a modern forward, he doesn't have quick play the balls, he doesn't have pace or footwork, no real ball playing ability or offload, doesn't hit hard, doesn't run a good line, etc.

Sure Tolman works hard and puts in, he also reads the game well, but without any of the stuff i previously mentioned his strong points almost go to waste and he offers very little. If Tolman was stronger and could bump off a defender or stand in the tackle like Woods then he would be far more valuable. If he had more pace or footwork and could get in between defenders and get a quick play the ball away then again he would be great.

People suggesting he needs to start and play bigger minutes? Lol seriously? He couldn't make an impact off the bench so what the hell kind of impact can he nake starting? Nothing.
He only offers something starting. Certainly not off the bench. If he is in the 17 he needs to start and just tackle hard and take a few hit ups.
People are totally missing the fact that tolman and graham were our front row last year, and now its woods and klemmer who are weapons in attack, but not noted defenders. So clearly we are a little more vulnerable defensively.
i know your one of tolmans haters, and you will argue he doesnt hit hard in defense, or his tackles are inefective, but one on one tackles are far less common then group tackles, and as long as someone is there to hold on and begin the tackle then someone else can finish the tackle.
 

flamebouyant

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Read my post again, I said I'll give him being an opportunist in a positive light .

Keeping pressure on the opposition is what usually wins you games. When our bench came on we weren't keeping pressure on them, plain and simple
I understood. I just think he is one of those 1%ers that offers more to a team then you can quantify by stats. So when for example he makes that extra effort to get back on side and be in the defensive line, or when he is there to make a git up from dummy half, or clean up a loose ball, or make a cover tackle, he is there. Its not what win you games, but its certainly a part of it.
 

CrittaMagic69

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He only offers something starting. Certainly not off the bench. If he is in the 17 he needs to start and just tackle hard and take a few hit ups.
People are totally missing the fact that tolman and graham were our front row last year, and now its woods and klemmer who are weapons in attack, but not noted defenders. So clearly we are a little more vulnerable defensively.
i know your one of tolmans haters, and you will argue he doesnt hit hard in defense, or his tackles are inefective, but one on one tackles are far less common then group tackles, and as long as someone is there to hold on and begin the tackle then someone else can finish the tackle.
And i don't agree with that in todays game. If a player can't perform off the bench then he shouldn't be a consistent starter, that's just the way i see it these days.

You don't have the luxury of multiple interchanges like you used too years ago, so you can't stack the bench with big ***** and play them around your workhorses. These days the line between attack and defence is as close as ever, so your forwards need to ve providing both and a high intensity if you want to challenge.

Just take a look at some of the big minute middle forwards that are around in todays game, off the top of my head i would go with Mannering, Gallen, Trbojevic. Tolman just isn't comparable at all. All these players can play 80 through the middle and make a stack of tackles if the team requires it. But they also offer a lot with the ball in hand, far more than Tolman ever has or will in his current state. That's why they justify the big minutes, because they contribute consistent quality in both attack and defence.

For me, Tolman simply needs to get bigger, stronger and faster. He needs power. If he can't do that then he will continue his fade out of game. Teams don't want to start him and play him for big minutes, they also don't want to bench him as there a players that offer far better value that can develop into players they want to start.
 

CaptainJackson

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I understood. I just think he is one of those 1%ers that offers more to a team then you can quantify by stats. So when for example he makes that extra effort to get back on side and be in the defensive line, or when he is there to make a git up from dummy half, or clean up a loose ball, or make a cover tackle, he is there. Its not what win you games, but its certainly a part of it.
You can bring up some one from the juniors to do that job.

We struggled last year and the seasons before because we had Graham and Tolman starting, both were very little impact forwards, both workhorses.
 

chisdog

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https://wwos.nine.com.au/2018/03/13/07/15/the-mole-kiwis-want-taumalolo-to-make-tonga-switch

Canterbury want Tolman

The Bulldogs have decided to hang on to experienced prop Aiden Tolman after earlier shopping him around.

With James Graham gone and Dave Klemmer and Aaron Woods set to be missing for the State of Origin period, the Dogs have realised that they will be skinny for front row depth and will need Tolman.


In retrospect, the Dogs should never have let Englishman Graham go - he was among their most effective forwards in recent years and isn’t eligible for Origin so would have been available all season.
 

Dognacious

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https://wwos.nine.com.au/2018/03/13/07/15/the-mole-kiwis-want-taumalolo-to-make-tonga-switch

Canterbury want Tolman

The Bulldogs have decided to hang on to experienced prop Aiden Tolman after earlier shopping him around.

With James Graham gone and Dave Klemmer and Aaron Woods set to be missing for the State of Origin period, the Dogs have realised that they will be skinny for front row depth and will need Tolman.


In retrospect, the Dogs should never have let Englishman Graham go - he was among their most effective forwards in recent years and isn’t eligible for Origin so would have been available all season.
Notice nobody was quoted as saying anything. Still a rumour that we were shopping him imo
 
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Natboy

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Nobody hates Tolman, people are just frustrated by him. He just isn't the ideal forward in todays game so there's just very little he can do. His so called motor isn't anywhere near as valuable as some people think because he lacks any sort of impact on the field. He doesn't have the power of a modern forward, he doesn't have quick play the balls, he doesn't have pace or footwork, no real ball playing ability or offload, doesn't hit hard, doesn't run a good line, etc.

Sure Tolman works hard and puts in, he also reads the game well, but without any of the stuff i previously mentioned his strong points almost go to waste and he offers very little. If Tolman was stronger and could bump off a defender or stand in the tackle like Woods then he would be far more valuable. If he had more pace or footwork and could get in between defenders and get a quick play the ball away then again he would be great.

People suggesting he needs to start and play bigger minutes? Lol seriously? He couldn't make an impact off the bench so what the hell kind of impact can he nake starting? Nothing.
Come on mate, he was a game changer when he came on the other night.

Give him credit, he worked really hard to really slow us down and allow Melbourne to run over the top of us.

Breaking or even bending the line is soooo over-rated in today’s game.

He was EVEN mentioned as a possible origin player about 6 years ago so I think therefore we should sign him up for life as our marquee signing
 

KLil

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I agree. Some people on here think the NRL is like fantasy Coach. Tolmans not doing it for them so lets trade him. He has a contract and I would rather keep him than pay someone else to have him. He doesn't dominate hit ups but is tidy in defence and can play 80mins. I'm not sure about him on the bench as to me they are meant to be impact players where Tolman is more of a safe solid play all day forward you can depend on when our flashy tough guys get gassed. I know that will not win you any man of the match award but I am guessing his team mates like him around.
One thing people underestimate is player fatigued and the mistakes that come with it... Tolman has a big motor and will go 80 at the same pace if he had too with minimal mistakes and I can guarantee nobody else in the squad can do the same. I know his sluggish but having him at lock may not be the worst thing if it means he and Lichaa can sure up the middle like they did last yr.
 

Dawain87

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If only Tolman developed an offload game.
 
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Natboy

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One thing people underestimate is player fatigued and the mistakes that come with it... Tolman has a big motor and will go 80 at the same pace if he had too with minimal mistakes and I can guarantee nobody else in the squad can do the same. I know his sluggish but having him at lock may not be the worst thing if it means he and Lichaa can sure up the middle like they did last yr.
Unfortunately he has a Ferrari motor on a peewee 50
 

alchemist

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Tolman has been a good servant for the club for many years... he lacks the impact of other props, but has great workrate and is safer with the ball than a lot of our other forwards... the problem with him is that over the years his already lack of mobility has deteriorated further and so he can get dominated too much in the contact... therefore, he needs to start as he has no place on the bench

as for his prominence in the 'Dogs attacking plays late in the tackle count, you can only really blame Tolman for the first couple times that happens... after that, it was for the coaching staff to take him aside and emphasize that when it came to 4th and 5th tackle plays, he had no f*%#ing business with the ball
 
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Natboy

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Tolman has been a good servant for the club for many years... he lacks the impact of other props, but has great workrate and is safer with the ball than a lot of our other forwards... the problem with him is that over the years his already lack of mobility has deteriorated further and so he can get dominated too much in the contact... therefore, he needs to start as he has no place on the bench

as for his prominence in the 'Dogs attacking plays late in the tackle count, you can only really blame Tolman for the first couple times that happens... after that, it was for the coaching staff to take him aside and emphasize that when it came to 4th and 5th tackle plays, he had no f*%#ing business with the ball
I’d prefer to start with our best 13. If you aren’t good enough to start off the bench then surely you shouldn’t be in first grade
 

Sherlock Holmes

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Ok, so being an opportunist is a bad thing? Our bench didnt cost us the game, if you want to identify a particular thing that cost us the game, then jacksons two missed tackles cost us the game. And eastwoods missed tackle. Or perhaps Mbye caughing up the ball to ado-carr?
We were beaten by a better side. Thats it.
I've watched the game 3 times now and tolman had nothing to do with us losing as you said it was just some lazy defence that let us down which im sure can be easily fixed
 

Bad Billy

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Why wouldn’t he stay ? He’s on $1b/season.
That’s about $1b/per offload.
 
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