The Whole Russian Spy Thing

[Wahesh]

Ok so let's respect the forum rules and not go off topic into dark territory in this thread. I just have a few questions hoping someone could answer...

1. A former Russian spy was poisoned allegedly by his own country. Why would they try and kill one of their own spies and his daughter?
2. How would they have managed to try and get him to consume the nerve agent?
3. Why is the UK and it's allies pissed off about this? Was the man somehow important to the UK in political terms?
4. How bad actually is this, because it seems like the ONE COUNTRY you do NOT want to piss off is Russia, and the poms actually have the nerve to do this (excuse the pun) AND they've dragged us into it. We want Putin to be an ally, NOT an enemy.

 

[CroydonDog]

Ok so let's respect the forum rules and not go off topic into dark territory in this thread. I just have a few questions hoping someone could answer...

1. A former Russian spy was poisoned allegedly by his own country. Why would they try and kill one of their own spies and his daughter?
2. How would they have managed to try and get him to consume the nerve agent?
3. Why is the UK and it's allies pissed off about this? Was the man somehow important to the UK in political terms?
4. How bad actually is this, because it seems like the ONE COUNTRY you do NOT want to piss off is Russia, and the poms actually have the nerve to do this (excuse the pun) AND they've dragged us into it. We want Put into be an ally, NOT an enemy.

1. I think he was a double agent of some sort. I have seen snippets on SBS news, but haven't looked at anything further in depth.
2. No idea, but the British have quarantined a fair chunk of the neighbourhood where they think it happened.
3. It's basically using chemical weapons on British soil and potentially harming British citizens (I don't know the citizenship status of the spy fellow or his daughter). Nerve agents are illegal, and innocent civilians could have been affected.
4. The Poms did what they had to do. It's basically an attack on British soil by Russians. Either the Russian state has done it directly, or (probably worse) they have allowed this nerve agent to get into the hands of someone else.

As for pissing off Russia - meh. Russia is mostly piss, wind and propaganda. [If i am poisoned you will now know why]

 

[Bob dog]

Communism, it kills its own if they know too much, just to make sure.

 

[MatstaDogg]

Communism, it kills its own if they know too much, just to make sure.

Just like the mafia would back in the day.

 

[Realist90]

Theresa may finally showed some female empowerment and intimidated the male leader in Putin. He sure did get scared and was severely lost for words as to how a female could be so dam empowered.

 

[Realist90]

Communism, it kills its own if they know too much, just to make sure.

Obama was closer to being a commi than Putin is lol. Putin just doesn’t care for games. Just does what needs to be done essentially

 

[CaptainJackson]

1. Any state declares that allegiance must be shown only to the state. Don't think that any other state would do anything differently. Especially if it is genuine top secret shit the spy is delving.

2. Slight of hand, Don't think it would be much difficult

3. It's a state committing crime in another states soil. Don't forget that ambassadors are afforded the luxury of diplomatic immunity, ie the host country treats ambassadors as a complete guest and won't charge ambassadors with crimes . So not only has a crime been committed that could have harmed the wider community but they also broke their guest status

4. Yeh people need to get over this shit. There's no real threat. Putin has too much to lose, China has too much to lose there will be no war. The only unstable one is Trump but his personal commercial interests in Russia and china would make him not attack either (Trump potentially attacking north Korea is a different matter)

They've all got too much to lose so it's really handbags at 10 paces

 

[CroydonDog]

1. Any state declares that allegiance must be shown only to the state. Don't think that any other state would do anything differently. Especially if it is genuine top secret shit the spy is delving.

2. Slight of hand, Don't think it would be much difficult

3. It's a state committing crime in another states soil. Don't forget that ambassadors are afforded the luxury of diplomatic immunity, ie the host country treats ambassadors as a complete guest and won't charge ambassadors with crimes . So not only has a crime been committed that could have harmed the wider community but they also broke their guest status

4. Yeh people need to get over this shit. There's no real threat. Putin has too much to lose, China has too much to lose there will be no war. The only unstable one is Trump but his personal commercial interests in Russia and china would make him not attack either (Trump potentially attacking north Korea is a different matter)

They've all got too much to lose so it's really handbags at 10 paces

Expelling diplomats is basically nothing, and all major countries do it from time to time (as well as recall their own ambassador etc).

If the Poms decide to start messing with Russia's oligarchs who live in the UK, then it might gt a bit more interesting.

 

[Flanagun]

I’d say if he’s a former spy living in the UK he has probably defected at some point....

They probably suspect the Russian government put one of their diplomats up to it, which is why they are now forcing the diplomats to leave their posts and return home....

I haven’t really been following it that closely. Just speculating really. But I’d say they suspect diplomats or even Russian spies who are still active were involved.

But if they suspect diplomats have been performing illegal acts on behalf of their government, it would make sense to send them packing sooner than later.

I’d think it’s about security as much as it’s about looking tough.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Expelling diplomats is basically nothing, and all major countries do it from time to time (as well as recall their own ambassador etc).

If the Poms decide to start messing with Russia's oligarchs who live in the UK, then it might gt a bit more interesting.

Agree but i for one moment don't think Britain's secret service would do anything different if their spy defected. They'd target their own spy too

It's a theatrical act to dispel displomats, I just don't think any country would act differently.

Take as example Australia's "defense" of assange

 

[Realist90]

I’d say if he’s a former spy living in the UK he has probably defected at some point....

They probably suspect the Russian government put one of their diplomats up to it, which is why they are now forcing the diplomats to leave their posts and return home....

I haven’t really been following it that closely. Just speculating really. But I’d say they suspect diplomats or even Russian spies who are still active were involved.

But if they suspect diplomats have been performing illegal acts on behalf of their government, it would make sense to send them packing sooner than later.

I’d think it’s about security as much as it’s about looking tough.

We’re also forgetting spies know exactly what they’re signing up for. They know full well they may be killed by their enemy or even their own if suspected.
It’s just like the army you know there’s a chance you’ll be killed. I don’t even think I’m talking about what you’re talking about hahaha I just thought I’d add my humbly iq enhanced opinion.

 

[Mr Invisible]

1. A former Russian spy was poisoned allegedly by his own country. Why would they try and kill one of their own spies and his daughter?
The clue is in the "former" spy. Probably don't want dirty little secrets getting out, so punish him and wipe out his daughter as well.

Not the first time they've eliminated a former spy, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko

2. How would they have managed to try and get him to consume the nerve agent?
It's believed they used Novichok (nerve agent). Apparently works by two chemicals combining and causing a reaction. Much unknown about it, including how it enters the body.

Good read here on it, including a question mark on if it is Novichok, Russian stockpiles of it were meant to have been destroyed late last year.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/14/...nerve-agent-chemical-weapon-poisoning-england

3. Why is the UK and it's allies pissed off about this? Was the man somehow important to the UK in political terms?
Because their public have been quarantined.
Because it was done on UK soil.
Because it's an international crime using banned (under UN) weapons.
Because they have an innocent police officer in hospital over it.

4. How bad actually is this, because it seems like the ONE COUNTRY you do NOT want to piss off is Russia, and the poms actually have the nerve to do this (excuse the pun) AND they've dragged us into it. We want Putin to be an ally, NOT an enemy.
Russia is a smoke and mirrors country. Lots of it still exists in extreme poverty. They want to be considered a world super power, but rely on a lot of other countries to keep them afloat.

Russia would never act and attack another country that can stand up for itself...

 

[CroydonDog]

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Ok so let's respect the forum rules and not go off topic into dark territory in this thread. I just have a few questions hoping someone could answer...

1. A former Russian spy was poisoned allegedly by his own country. Why would they try and kill one of their own spies and his daughter?
2. How would they have managed to try and get him to consume the nerve agent?
3. Why is the UK and it's allies pissed off about this? Was the man somehow important to the UK in political terms?
4. How bad actually is this, because it seems like the ONE COUNTRY you do NOT want to piss off is Russia, and the poms actually have the nerve to do this (excuse the pun) AND they've dragged us into it. We want Put into be an ally, NOT an enemy.

1) He was a double agent which suggests that he sold Russian secrets to the UK

2) The nerve agent was either laced on or it was delivered in aerosol form to their house. I recall them mentioning something about contaminated pub suggesting it may have been on food, but they also mentioned that the policeman who found him was also effected by the nerve agent. I'm guessing it was laced on food and the cop tried to perform CPR which resulted in him getting afflicted

3) possibly because he was likely providing information or the UK government but mainly because it's a political based murder on UK soil which is considered an act of war

4) it has the potential to lead to a cold war. Russia are threatening the UK but Australia and America are both backing up the UK. Russia wouldn't dare to do anything in the open as it would be WW3 which they don't have the allies for, but they'll do plenty of shit in the background

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I believe Russia is being framed for polictal purposes which i cant be bothered going into unless you've researched the matter thoroughly then you would understand.

One thing i will point out is IF russia did do it
Why would they use a nerve agent that would lead directly back to them when there's much simpler ways of killing them.

As i said i beleive there is a political agenda against Russia from the western front.

Respectfully that's all i have to say in this thread

 

[Mr Invisible]

I believe Russia is being framed for polictal purposes which i cant be bothered going into unless you've researched the matter thoroughly then you would understand.

One thing i will point out is IF russia did do it
Why would they use a nerve agent that would lead directly back to them when there's much simpler ways of killing them.

As i said i beleive there is a political agenda against Russia from the western front.

Respectfully that's all i have to say in this thread

UK have already ruled out it being a third party, because the nerve agent is only available to Russian government/scientists. Even those working on parts of the project are not aware of all the steps/ingredients/processes to make it come about.

That link I posted earlier explains some of this.

They've done it before with radiation (which I also linked), however whoever is responsible KNEW they were headed to the UK, which is why something was used that would not get picked up at customs or anything.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

UK have already ruled out it being a third party, because the nerve agent is only available to Russian government/scientists. Even those working on parts of the project are not aware of all the steps/ingredients/processes to make it come about.

That link I posted earlier explains some of this.

They've done it before with radiation (which I also linked), however whoever is responsible KNEW they were headed to the UK, which is why something was used that would not get picked up at customs or anything.

Youtube what the Russian spokesman said at the United Nations security council meeting yesterday in reply to the accusations

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

UK have already ruled out it being a third party, because the nerve agent is only available to Russian government/scientists. Even those working on parts of the project are not aware of all the steps/ingredients/processes to make it come about.

That link I posted earlier explains some of this.

They've done it before with radiation (which I also linked), however whoever is responsible KNEW they were headed to the UK, which is why something was used that would not get picked up at customs or anything.

Also The man that died was released in a prisoner swap with the UK over 10 years ago , why would Russia do something about it now AND use a nerve agent that can be linked to them. Countries have spys all over the world if russia wanted him dead theres so many untraceable ways to do so wouldn't one think?

And why do this right before the fifa world cup which will bring in millions to their economy

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

 

[Mr Invisible]

I've no idea, but Russia's UN spokesperson is not likely to come out and admit a war crime using a biological weapon they were meant to have destroyed last year.

It would be grounds for the UN to potentially make moves to have them disarmed and all biological and nuclear weapons surrendered.