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Tassie Devil

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I think the Ole was a good/great man manager line is overdone... he was clearly loose on discipline, picked his favourites almost exclusively, and the players that weren't getting picked he clearly misled as to what sort of futures they had at the club (Henderson, Van de Beek, Lingard etc.)
He was a good mate which meant the atmosphere was good within the playing group.

But, when it came to the crunch clearly players weren't put into line as we can see with Ralph and so many players downing tools.

Feel sorry for Van de Beek especially but also Lingard. Was very poor form to string them along in all honesty.
 

Tassie Devil

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There’s those players at every club
Fringe players that think they should be player and I assure you that most managers tell those type of players are in there plans

A manager that picks his 11 and tells those fringe type players there not in his plans does not exist
Agree with this. Of course there are players not in the 1st team and they're obviously unhappy which is completely normal.

But the treatment of Van de Beek is borderline discraceful in all honesty, especially when you look at how poor your midfield has been.

As for the players not in the first 11 not existing. I think this is what you were trying to say?

While that's true to a point, a good man manager would bring everyone together which is what I think @alchemist is saying? Hard to argue with him as you dont' judge a great 'man manager' just on the first 11 but the entire squad. And, clearly many of those outside of the top 11 really werent' happy. Add to that Pogba who's been trying to get out for how long? Sancho who's just come in?

Something definitely wasn't right so I can see what his point was in all honesty.
 

alchemist

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There’s those players at every club
Fringe players that think they should be player and I assure you that most managers tell those type of players are in there plans

A manager that picks his 11 and tells those fringe type players there not in his plans does not exist
United could have sold Lingard to West Ham in the summer, earned £25-30 million, and alleviated the bloated United squad... but Ole tells Lingard that he will get an opportunity and he returns to Old Trafford... he doesn't, Ole gets sacked, Lingard wouldn't appear to be in Rangnick's plans, and Lingard is now prepared to sit out the remaining 6 months of his contract and cash in on a free transfer

Donny Van de Beek is rarely used in his first season at United and Everton try to sign him in the off season... Ole tells him he has a future at Old Trafford but he needs to bulk up... he stays, he does, and still he wastes away on the bench waving farewell to his career

Dean Henderson is on loan at Sheffield United but brought back to United with Ole stating that he saw Henderson as United's future no. 1 and he is signed to a 5 year contract earning £100K a week all the while you have a De Gea under contract until 2023 earning £375K per week and Henderson with aspirations of playing at the World Cup now wants out

Ole made Maguire captain which now means you cannot drop him even though his form has been that diabolical that he is akin to being the iceberg to United's Titanic

Ole criticised Rashford in a post match conference and was then subsequently obviously forced to publicly apologise to "Rashy"

Ole stated that Bailly would play a significant part in his squad when he re-signed last year only to be banished to the bench, too... Ole went as far as playing a supposedly injured Maguire vs Leicester City instead of Bailly and Maguire played a part in what 3 of Leicester's 4 goals

the players are too entitled, the coaches lack authority, and the footballing decisions at the club are being made by bankers
 

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United could have sold Lingard to West Ham in the summer, earned £25-30 million, and alleviated the bloated United squad... but Ole tells Lingard that he will get an opportunity and he returns to Old Trafford... he doesn't, Ole gets sacked, Lingard wouldn't appear to be in Rangnick's plans, and Lingard is now prepared to sit out the remaining 6 months of his contract and cash in on a free transfer

Donny Van de Beek is rarely used in his first season at United and Everton try to sign him in the off season... Ole tells him he has a future at Old Trafford but he needs to bulk up... he stays, he does, and still he wastes away on the bench waving farewell to his career

Dean Henderson is on loan at Sheffield United but brought back to United with Ole stating that he saw Henderson as United's future no. 1 and he is signed to a 5 year contract earning £100K a week all the while you have a De Gea under contract until 2023 earning £375K per week and Henderson with aspirations of playing at the World Cup now wants out

Ole made Maguire captain which now means you cannot drop him even though his form has been that diabolical that he is akin to being the iceberg to United's Titanic

Ole criticised Rashford in a post match conference and was then subsequently obviously forced to publicly apologise to "Rashy"

Ole stated that Bailly would play a significant part in his squad when he re-signed last year only to be banished to the bench, too... Ole went as far as playing a supposedly injured Maguire vs Leicester City instead of Bailly and Maguire played a part in what 3 of Leicester's 4 goals

the players are too entitled, the coaches lack authority, and the footballing decisions at the club are being made by bankers
Every club has players that can start else where
If the manager tells them there not in the plans you would have a squad of 11
Coz nobody would sign a contract
Every players signs hoping to play, you give them no hope then no fringe player would ever sign

It s that simple
If you think klopp or pep tells players they rarely use there not in his plans your delusional
Of course you have to tell players this , you need a squad
U need players for cup games injuries etc

There would not be 1 manager in the Epl who tells players that arnt in his best. 11
“Your not wanted “

That would be dumb

You have to plan for injuries suspension rotation
Every player names in the squad are in the mangers plans

But if there not good enough for first 11 they need to work harder to crack that team

Don’t whinge that the manger told me that I was on his plans

Ahhh yeah, manger plans the whole squad for the year
 
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alchemist

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there is a difference between players that are there for depth, for cup competitions, for development, that you are gambling on to come good etc. that you will oil up so that they sign on... part of any good roster management... that does not include players you just don't rate and are not relying on like Lingard, Van de Beek and Bailly
 

Tassie Devil

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United could have sold Lingard to West Ham in the summer, earned £25-30 million, and alleviated the bloated United squad... but Ole tells Lingard that he will get an opportunity and he returns to Old Trafford... he doesn't, Ole gets sacked, Lingard wouldn't appear to be in Rangnick's plans, and Lingard is now prepared to sit out the remaining 6 months of his contract and cash in on a free transfer

Donny Van de Beek is rarely used in his first season at United and Everton try to sign him in the off season... Ole tells him he has a future at Old Trafford but he needs to bulk up... he stays, he does, and still he wastes away on the bench waving farewell to his career

Dean Henderson is on loan at Sheffield United but brought back to United with Ole stating that he saw Henderson as United's future no. 1 and he is signed to a 5 year contract earning £100K a week all the while you have a De Gea under contract until 2023 earning £375K per week and Henderson with aspirations of playing at the World Cup now wants out

Ole made Maguire captain which now means you cannot drop him even though his form has been that diabolical that he is akin to being the iceberg to United's Titanic

Ole criticised Rashford in a post match conference and was then subsequently obviously forced to publicly apologise to "Rashy"

Ole stated that Bailly would play a significant part in his squad when he re-signed last year only to be banished to the bench, too... Ole went as far as playing a supposedly injured Maguire vs Leicester City instead of Bailly and Maguire played a part in what 3 of Leicester's 4 goals

the players are too entitled, the coaches lack authority, and the footballing decisions at the club are being made by bankers
Nail. On. Head.
 

Tassie Devil

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United could have sold Lingard to West Ham in the summer, earned £25-30 million, and alleviated the bloated United squad... but Ole tells Lingard that he will get an opportunity and he returns to Old Trafford... he doesn't, Ole gets sacked, Lingard wouldn't appear to be in Rangnick's plans, and Lingard is now prepared to sit out the remaining 6 months of his contract and cash in on a free transfer

Donny Van de Beek is rarely used in his first season at United and Everton try to sign him in the off season... Ole tells him he has a future at Old Trafford but he needs to bulk up... he stays, he does, and still he wastes away on the bench waving farewell to his career

Dean Henderson is on loan at Sheffield United but brought back to United with Ole stating that he saw Henderson as United's future no. 1 and he is signed to a 5 year contract earning £100K a week all the while you have a De Gea under contract until 2023 earning £375K per week and Henderson with aspirations of playing at the World Cup now wants out

Ole made Maguire captain which now means you cannot drop him even though his form has been that diabolical that he is akin to being the iceberg to United's Titanic

Ole criticised Rashford in a post match conference and was then subsequently obviously forced to publicly apologise to "Rashy"

Ole stated that Bailly would play a significant part in his squad when he re-signed last year only to be banished to the bench, too... Ole went as far as playing a supposedly injured Maguire vs Leicester City instead of Bailly and Maguire played a part in what 3 of Leicester's 4 goals

the players are too entitled, the coaches lack authority, and the footballing decisions at the club are being made by bankers
The last part of this I think really hits it home.

"The players are too entitled"

Just look at how they're reacting to Ragnick. How many want out. How many are questioning him.

For some mad reason some United supporters are using this as evidence that Ole was an incredible man manager, but isn't that the very point?

If he was so good they wouldn't be behaving this way surely?
 

coach

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there is a difference between players that are there for depth, for cup competitions, for development, that you are gambling on to come good etc. that you will oil up so that they sign on... part of any good roster management... that does not include players you just don't rate and are not relying on like Lingard, Van de Beek and Bailly
Nobody’s gambling in them coming good, the offered them a contract to do a job when needed
They signed it …
I’m not sure why your upset that a team like united can have decent players not getting a run?

Need a big squad full of quality to be a force
How many of those city players don’t get quality game time but pep still insists having em in the squad

But hey that’s why they have been the dominant team the last 10 years

View attachment 37456

Here’s an example of people taking the piss of the city squad and some players only getting a run coz of covid

Do you think city care what people think about there massive squad littered with talent ?
Most don’t get hardly any game time because the top team is the top team
No they couldn’t care less
Rest of the squad are for cup games injury’s suspensions etc
Like I said

Would t you say it’s up to the players to work there way into the 11

Or

Don’t sign the big money contract


Why is it the mangers fault there not good enough for first 11?

And 2 mangers in a row leaving the same players out too……
 
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Bulldog_4_Life

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Interesting take on things and see where you're coming from but still can't connect all the dots on this.

Noticed you didn't mention that this squad was one of the most expensively assembled squads in history. Also didn't bring to light that Ole was massively backed by the management so we had everything pretty much given to him. You claim it was out of his hands. OK. But you still can surely make things work if you're a half decent manager?

Let's be honest. He overachieved with the 2nd place finish which was more down the the bad luck of other clubs rather than you being that good. The form this year only ilustrates this especially when you consider you've added talent to it.

It just seems like people are glossing over what Ole was doing to United before he was sacked as if it was just a blip and nothing much. YOu were absolutely terrible with him. Sorry. And that was after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. Are we just supposed to forget that and focus on his 2nd placed finish the previous season?

I honestly don't understand it with some of this talk.

Rangnick is struggling which shows Ole was great at man managing and a decent manager? If that were really the case then those players wouldn't be behaving the way they are now as they'd already be used to being professional. If Ole really was as half decent as you guys are saying then surely more of the team would be performing?

"No other manager is judged on winning a cup like Ole is" ...

Really? Man. How much grief did Klopp kop in the first few years? Look at Chelsea when they are sacked even if they win a cup. Don't buy that statement for a second but at the same time it's Man United. Of course the expectations are high

I'll let you in on a secret. Ole was judged so much because United spent so so so much on players and had and still don't have anything to show for it. Of course he's going to be judged on winning cups, and when you scraped through the CL this year, out of the title race 12 games in ... of course people are going to judge him. It's Man United FFS!

Have said it before. Think Ole did well to get the attitude of the team to a certain level and it seemed as though the team was playing for each other. At times I think tactically he did well also, but more often than not he was outclasses. But that's no where near enough what the expectations should be for a top side and especially United.

With the amount he spent, the level of players that were already at the club, he should've be doign a lot better.
The waste of money during his tenure falls under the squad building. We managed to spend a lot of money without actually adding as much quality to our side. Look at the squad we put out, only Varane, Cavani and Bruno were signed by Ole. We didn’t spend the money wisely, we shopped inside the premier league and that’s why we paid a shit ton for players like Wan Bissaka and Maguire. Of course that brings expectations but it’s also why I banged on about United having a shit structure for the longest time, a competent club would’ve stepped in at those points. Every other club has strategies in place, whether it’s City, Chelsea and even Liverpool. Look back to when Klopp joined and he wanted to buy Julian Brandt instead of Mo Salah, and he had to be convinced that Salah was the better player by Michael Edwards, that’s what happens at clubs with structure, whilst at United our manager is in charge of recruitment, players and staff, tactics etc.
 

Bulldog_4_Life

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And people have created a false narrative around Ole being Mr Nice guy. He came in and sent most of the senior players packing. He came out numerous times in press conferences backing a player and then selling them within the week. Him calling Rashford “Rashy” is no different to Tuchel calling Mount “Mase” in his press conferences, but it only seems to be an issue with Ole and his management.
 

alchemist

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Nobody’s gambling in them coming good, the offered them a contract to do a job when needed
They signed it …
I’m not sure why your upset that a team like united can have decent players not getting a run?

Need a big squad full of quality to be a force
How many of those city players don’t get quality game time but pep still insists having em in the squad

But hey that’s why they have been the dominant team the last 10 years

View attachment 37456

Here’s an example of people taking the piss of the city squad and some players only getting a run coz of covid

Do you think city care what people think about there massive squad littered with talent ?
Most don’t get hardly any game time because the top team is the top team
No they couldn’t care less
Rest of the squad are for cup games injury’s suspensions etc
Like I said

Would t you say it’s up to the players to work there way into the 11

Or

Don’t sign the big money contract


Why is it the mangers fault there not good enough for first 11?

And 2 mangers in a row leaving the same players out too……
I'm not upset... in truth, the post-Ferguson era at United has been fascinating to watch

I am saying that the situations surrounding likes of Lingard, Henderson, Van de Beek, Bailly etc. as well as the poor attitude and discipline of the players now are indicative of Ole not being the man manager he is supposed to have been

as for City, they have the authority of Pep as the manager, a good rotation of players across 4 competitions (UCL, EPL, FA Cup, EFL Cup), and are ruthless with their squad --> just look at the lack of sentimentality by City for the likes of Aguero, Yaya Toure, Kompany, Silva etc... so, they are a bit of a different prospect to United

and gambling is done with squads and in a number of different ways... for example, do United or Chelsea go all in on one player, Declan Rice, who West Ham boast will cost £200 million to sign? Gerrard bringing across Barca dud Coutinho? do United fans now remember ex-Serbia international, Zoran Tošić, who was a cut price signing by Alex Ferguson post-Glazer takeover? Chelsea signing a 36 year old Thiago Silva? etc.

what is it about Ole the manager that drives you Red Devils fans nuts?
 

coach

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I'm not upset... in truth, the post-Ferguson era at United has been fascinating to watch

I am saying that the situations surrounding likes of Lingard, Henderson, Van de Beek, Bailly etc. as well as the poor attitude and discipline of the players now are indicative of Ole not being the man manager he is supposed to have been

as for City, they have the authority of Pep as the manager, a good rotation of players across 4 competitions (UCL, EPL, FA Cup, EFL Cup), and are ruthless with their squad --> just look at the lack of sentimentality by City for the likes of Aguero, Yaya Toure, Kompany, Silva etc... so, they are a bit of a different prospect to United

and gambling is done with squads and in a number of different ways... for example, do United or Chelsea go all in on one player, Declan Rice, who West Ham boast will cost £200 million to sign? Gerrard bringing across Barca dud Coutinho? do United fans now remember ex-Serbia international, Zoran Tošić, who was a cut price signing by Alex Ferguson post-Glazer takeover? Chelsea signing a 36 year old Thiago Silva? etc.

what is it about Ole the manager that drives you Red Devils fans nuts?
This has now gone completely away from ole saying he has plans for certain players as per original post

End of the day, plans can mean being in squad and never playing
Or playing every week

Never did he come out and promise regular game time all he said was he had plans, correct?

Not sure why people are annoyed that players haven’t had game time when all he said was there were plans for them!
 

coach

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I'm not upset... in truth, the post-Ferguson era at United has been fascinating to watch

I am saying that the situations surrounding likes of Lingard, Henderson, Van de Beek, Bailly etc. as well as the poor attitude and discipline of the players now are indicative of Ole not being the man manager he is supposed to have been

as for City, they have the authority of Pep as the manager, a good rotation of players across 4 competitions (UCL, EPL, FA Cup, EFL Cup), and are ruthless with their squad --> just look at the lack of sentimentality by City for the likes of Aguero, Yaya Toure, Kompany, Silva etc... so, they are a bit of a different prospect to United

and gambling is done with squads and in a number of different ways... for example, do United or Chelsea go all in on one player, Declan Rice, who West Ham boast will cost £200 million to sign? Gerrard bringing across Barca dud Coutinho? do United fans now remember ex-Serbia international, Zoran Tošić, who was a cut price signing by Alex Ferguson post-Glazer takeover? Chelsea signing a 36 year old Thiago Silva? etc.

what is it about Ole the manager that drives you Red Devils fans nuts?
As far as this post goes
There was no gamble with lingard van de beek and Henderson
United knew what they were, Henderson was always back up to de gea
Lingard resigned with obviously no fee and was a fringe player
Van de beek was bought in to deepen the cm or cam
No gambles with them
 

Tassie Devil

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This has now gone completely away from ole saying he has plans for certain players as per original post

End of the day, plans can mean being in squad and never playing
Or playing every week

Never did he come out and promise regular game time all he said was he had plans, correct?

Not sure why people are annoyed that players haven’t had game time when all he said was there were plans for them!
I believe the original point was that Ole isn't / wasn't as great a man manager as you and some others seem to be making out he is / was.

Tbh, I actually thought Ole was pretty good at man management but what @alchemist has brought up swayed me to the other side. He's got some pretty valid points?
 

Tassie Devil

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The waste of money during his tenure falls under the squad building. We managed to spend a lot of money without actually adding as much quality to our side. Look at the squad we put out, only Varane, Cavani and Bruno were signed by Ole. We didn’t spend the money wisely, we shopped inside the premier league and that’s why we paid a shit ton for players like Wan Bissaka and Maguire. Of course that brings expectations but it’s also why I banged on about United having a shit structure for the longest time, a competent club would’ve stepped in at those points. Every other club has strategies in place, whether it’s City, Chelsea and even Liverpool. Look back to when Klopp joined and he wanted to buy Julian Brandt instead of Mo Salah, and he had to be convinced that Salah was the better player by Michael Edwards, that’s what happens at clubs with structure, whilst at United our manager is in charge of recruitment, players and staff, tactics etc.
I'm confused by you lot. Honestly.

Everyone had moved on from the whole Ole thing, tbh I feel it's been done to death, but then you guys started off with the whole thing again. It's bizarre.

Now it's the management's fault that you didn't sign the right players and haven't challenged for trophies?

It was only at the end of last year when you got your magical 2nd place that you boys were talking about challenging for the title. Singing from the roof tops about Ronaldo coming in. Sancho. How Varane would change your defence. There was no talk about having a bad squad then or not having the type of players that could do well. Yes, it's true that you specifically talked about your concern with midfield but still ...

You lot were very positive coming into the season. You lot were very positive about coming 2nd last year. And you still are because you keep refering to it as a marker as to why Ole should be respected.

But now it's that you signed the wrong players. You wasted money. I don't understand it, seriously. Which is it?

16 players bought under Ole for around 400m pounds. Which one has been an unriveled success? YOu bought a completely new back 4. He made Maguire captain. Signed a top top midfielder but didn't play him.

I get that maybe you could've bought differently, but who did Ole improve under him? You'll say Shaw. Wan Bissaka. etc. etc. Let's look at the present. Which player is better now because of Ole?

And then there's all the talk about Ole being a great man manager. I bought into that. I did because I felt last year especially he got you guys playing together and for each other.

But, what about this year? You were absolutely terrible. If we're going to judge Ole on man management then surely we look at this year also and clearly it wasn't good, otherwise he wouldn't have been sacked?

I think @alchemist has made some really good points which I honestly didn't think of but how can you say he was a good man manager when all that was going on and so many players were unhappy?

The team is in absolute dire straits and you're all happy just to say it's Rangnick rather than accepting that Ole had a lot to do with this. YOu were all dancing when he was appointed, now his challenges in managering apparently only highlight how good Ole was and how disrespected Ole was for the 'results' he got. It's completely bizarre.

I'm sorry. I try to understand what you guys are talking about but there are so many contradictions in what you say?
 

Tassie Devil

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Man City 2020-21 finances - revenue up 19% to £569.8 million. Profit £2.4 million.

That's right. Making a profit in the middle of a pandemic with no fans in stadiums. Of course.
 

chemdog

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anyone see that the ref in the mali v Tunisia game blew the final whistle at the 85th minute
 
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