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LFC Bulldogs

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LFC has done great business for years and have Klopp as manager... I do wonder though whether that success is maintainable when Klopp leaves and the club is less discerning in the transfer market
Peobably not , but Michael Edwards has also played a very big part in our wheeling and dealing. He has made some super deals over the years. Sold players for overs and brought in players that have turned out to be bargains , like Salah .
What Klopp will leave behind when he decides to move on is a very good youth development system which will see talented players come through.
 

CrittaMagic69

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Very nice . Considering you change your name so many times what fucking initials did you get on them ? :tearsofjoy:
Factory. You'd be crazy to customise these aha. Only 1069 pairs, wonder if I'll actually get then or be refunded later lol
 

Tassie Devil

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LFC has done great business for years and have Klopp as manager... I do wonder though whether that success is maintainable when Klopp leaves and the club is less discerning in the transfer market
Tbh, I always felt that we'd be ok as we've built up and improved everything connected to Liverpool. So, Klopp would simply be passing the batton on to someone else who'd hopefully just continue with his good work.

However, I do worry these days. To compete with City we need to invest and we're just not doing it. Klopp's genius has seen us punch a little over our weight in all honesty, and I worry without his coaching that we'll drop significantly
 

CrittaMagic69

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City: decimated by Covid.

Also City: Steffan, Walker, Dias, Ake, Cancelo, Rodri, KDB, Gundogan, Jesus, Palmer, Silva.

Lol.
 

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City: decimated by Covid.

Also City: Steffan, Walker, Dias, Ake, Cancelo, Rodri, KDB, Gundogan, Jesus, Palmer, Silva.

Lol.
Financial doping. HOw can anyone seriously compete with that.

You see the 'sponsorship' deals they secured this week? Football is dead tbh. Madness that they're allowed to get away with it.
 

LFC Bulldogs

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The FA cup always springs surprise results.
Whats not surprising is the covid that is rampaging through the Senegal squad in the African cup (9players so far) which they tried to be covered.
No good comes from this meaningless tournament ,it will be a miracle if players don’t return form this tournament injured or with covid.
 

CrittaMagic69

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Isn't Optus meant to be streaming Afcon? I can't find it ffs
 

Tassie Devil

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Win is a win but was that really a win?

Same old same old really. Thought Varane wasn't bad actually but midfield got overrun. Attack disjointed. Played in spurts.

Villa are a decent side in all honesty so it means something that win, but underneath all of it it seems pretty much the same old same old in all honesty.

That VAR decision? Everyone will be talking about it and I'm still a little unsure what the reason was for disallowing it. Was it offside or the obstruction on Cavani? Either one was soft, but I'll push that to the side as Villa should've scored on other occassions so ...

United win .. kind of
 

Bulldog_4_Life

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Win is a win but was that really a win?

Same old same old really. Thought Varane wasn't bad actually but midfield got overrun. Attack disjointed. Played in spurts.

Villa are a decent side in all honesty so it means something that win, but underneath all of it it seems pretty much the same old same old in all honesty.

That VAR decision? Everyone will be talking about it and I'm still a little unsure what the reason was for disallowing it. Was it offside or the obstruction on Cavani? Either one was soft, but I'll push that to the side as Villa should've scored on other occassions so ...

United win .. kind of
It was an obstruction on Cavani but it was also offside.

Horrible performance but these days I go into games with the lowest expectations. Professionals who can’t even get the basics right.
 

Bulldog_4_Life

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Villa are building a very nice squad.

Coutinho and Digne coming in are class signings if they return to their best. Especially Digne, I think he is a top 3 left back in the league. Theyve got one of the best keepers in Europe, a top class left back in Digne, two centre backs who are England internationals, two of the most underrated players in Matty Cash and John McGinn, and their attacking options now include Coutinho, Watkins and Buendia. Oh and they have Ings off the bench.

Gerrard should really be challenging for Europa league spots with them.

They frequently develop young players too.
 

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It was an obstruction on Cavani but it was also offside.

Horrible performance but these days I go into games with the lowest expectations. Professionals who can’t even get the basics right.
What was the call though? Obstruction or offside? To spend 3+ mins looking for the offence doesn't seem that 'clear and obvious' to me.

As I said though, Villa should've equalised at a minimum themselves with the amount of chances they had so they can't overly whinge really.

Saw your comments on Ole and 2nd place. Will put my thoughts on this here for an open discussion and hope that it doesn't get hijacked once again ...

I understand what you're saying, and agree that Ole was good at man-management. Have always said that as you had a real character in your side, and last year you really fought to the death which showed you had a togetherness about you.

I'd be cautious to continually referring to last year's 2nd as a benchmark of anyone's success. While 2nd is good, it was a really really unique year which I'm sure we can all admit.

I said it last year, this was your greatest chance to win the title as City had had a terrible start with poor form and injuries. Liverpool crashed with the amount of injuries we had. Chelsea changed a manager midway through the year. It was there for you to take but you weren't even close. Let's be honest. Not even close.

He failed in the cups. Bottled the EPL (yes, I'm sure you'll say Liverpool bottled it). Bottled the EL final. Won nothing.

But, the players and form of the team is being lauded as a success which I don't understand? He had those players and chose to continue this year with the same midfield game after game and we're not supposed to judge him on that?

Especially when Ole started with the same players but new improvements this year and was shocking. So, which is it? Ole was great last year with worse players but this year with the same players plus 3 incredible additions and he was worse, much worse than previously. Was he really that good then?

It's really weird the take I'm seeing from United fans now. I don't get it?

We all openly admit the Ragnick needs more time to change the style and approach. But, now the overall bad form of the team is being used as proof that Ole really wasn't that bad and, in fact, was a good manager?

Strange take on it personally, but perhaps I'm missing something?
 

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What was the call though? Obstruction or offside? To spend 3+ mins looking for the offence doesn't seem that 'clear and obvious' to me.

As I said though, Villa should've equalised at a minimum themselves with the amount of chances they had so they can't overly whinge really.

Saw your comments on Ole and 2nd place. Will put my thoughts on this here for an open discussion and hope that it doesn't get hijacked once again ...

I understand what you're saying, and agree that Ole was good at man-management. Have always said that as you had a real character in your side, and last year you really fought to the death which showed you had a togetherness about you.

I'd be cautious to continually referring to last year's 2nd as a benchmark of anyone's success. While 2nd is good, it was a really really unique year which I'm sure we can all admit.

I said it last year, this was your greatest chance to win the title as City had had a terrible start with poor form and injuries. Liverpool crashed with the amount of injuries we had. Chelsea changed a manager midway through the year. It was there for you to take but you weren't even close. Let's be honest. Not even close.

He failed in the cups. Bottled the EPL (yes, I'm sure you'll say Liverpool bottled it). Bottled the EL final. Won nothing.

But, the players and form of the team is being lauded as a success which I don't understand? He had those players and chose to continue this year with the same midfield game after game and we're not supposed to judge him on that?

Especially when Ole started with the same players but new improvements this year and was shocking. So, which is it? Ole was great last year with worse players but this year with the same players plus 3 incredible additions and he was worse, much worse than previously. Was he really that good then?

It's really weird the take I'm seeing from United fans now. I don't get it?

We all openly admit the Ragnick needs more time to change the style and approach. But, now the overall bad form of the team is being used as proof that Ole really wasn't that bad and, in fact, was a good manager?

Strange take on it personally, but perhaps I'm missing something?
Obstruction happened first so I think that was their call.

In his only full seasons at the club he finished 3rd and 2nd, after taking over a team in 10th and then selling the likes of Lukaku etc. Whilst neither is an achievement and should not be celebrated, it does also show he wasnt the complete failure that he keeps being referred to as. The season we finished third, we had Lingard/Periera/Rashford/Martial as our front four for the first 23-24 games of the season, with Bruno joining at the start of February, that team was expected to finish outside of the top 4 by every single pundit and betting agency out there. Then last season we finished 2nd, but only after City broke the record for most consecutive wins, I believe it was 21 games. It took a record breaking team to beat us and I know a lot is made out of other sides and their injuries, but we also had Pogba out for close to half the season, Cavani injured and suspended from the start of the season through to December, Rashford suffered a fractured back, Martial missed close to 3 months, and we had to literally field 6 youth players on the bench in a few games once most of our depth players picked up injuries. We had our fair share of injuries, and it still took a record breaking City side to beat us to the title.

The one thing that bugged me most regarding the media's criticism of Ole was them calling him a bottle job in the cups. No other manager is judged on winning a cup like Ole is, there are 2 domestic trophies in the league, so at best 2 sides will win a cup each season, that does not mean the other 18 are failures. The only reason the criticism of Ole gained traction was because he was always making it to semi finals before being knocked out, where as if he had followed the path of Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs etc and just been knocked out earlier, then no one would have said anything. Ole also faced more premier league opposition in the cup competitions than any other manager whilst he was in charge. The only one you can really say was a failure was the EL final last season, and even that took over 20 penalties to decide, still we should have found a way to win that and it was a mark against his name.

Ole was a fantastic man manager but his issue this season was that he decided to go into the season with a large squad and it was a lack of game time that resulted in Lingard, Martial, Dalot, Bailly and Henderson starting to get restless and then that was followed up by Pogba's agent criticizing the club in public. As well as Cavani telling the club he wanted to leave England, it just become a mess too big for any manager. Thats also been the issue now under Rangnick, its why things havent improved as much as we had hoped.

So I'd say Ole's problem was squad building, which should have been in the control of a director of football and transfer team to help with that side of the game, instead it was Ole and Woodward. There are some managers, your likes of Zidane who are able to get the best out of high reputation star players, but he struggles with younger players who aren't at that level yet. You then have managers such as Klopp and Mourinho who need a squad thats built on character and system players to excel. Ole fell into the second category, he did reasonably well when he had a squad with low egos, but played with character. However, looking back now it made no sense that we went for players that were just never going to buy into that style of play.

The issue with the club is the culture and players, Van Gaal warned us, Mourinho warned us, and now its Rangnick.
 

alchemist

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I think the Ole was a good/great man manager line is overdone... he was clearly loose on discipline, picked his favourites almost exclusively, and the players that weren't getting picked he clearly misled as to what sort of futures they had at the club (Henderson, Van de Beek, Lingard etc.)
 

coach

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I think the Ole was a good/great man manager line is overdone... he was clearly loose on discipline, picked his favourites almost exclusively, and the players that weren't getting picked he clearly misled as to what sort of futures they had at the club (Henderson, Van de Beek, Lingard etc.)
There’s those players at every club
Fringe players that think they should be player and I assure you that most managers tell those type of players are in there plans

A manager that picks his 11 and tells those fringe type players there not in his plans does not exist
 

Bulldog_4_Life

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I think the Ole was a good/great man manager line is overdone... he was clearly loose on discipline, picked his favourites almost exclusively, and the players that weren't getting picked he clearly misled as to what sort of futures they had at the club (Henderson, Van de Beek, Lingard etc.)
Van de Beek was a player on the clubs shortlist who Ole wasn’t supposedly keen on. He gave Lingard so many chances even after he went a full year without scoring or assisting, and then before this season the club demanded 30m for him to sell him and rejected multiple bids 20m bids from West Ham, a ridiculous situation considering he had a year left on his contract. Henderson started a fair few games last season and then was out injured and then had long term covid affects.

Martial is another who got chance after chance last season after only managing to score 4 goals all season and then once he was dropped he threw his toys out the pram
 

Tassie Devil

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Obstruction happened first so I think that was their call.

In his only full seasons at the club he finished 3rd and 2nd, after taking over a team in 10th and then selling the likes of Lukaku etc. Whilst neither is an achievement and should not be celebrated, it does also show he wasnt the complete failure that he keeps being referred to as. The season we finished third, we had Lingard/Periera/Rashford/Martial as our front four for the first 23-24 games of the season, with Bruno joining at the start of February, that team was expected to finish outside of the top 4 by every single pundit and betting agency out there. Then last season we finished 2nd, but only after City broke the record for most consecutive wins, I believe it was 21 games. It took a record breaking team to beat us and I know a lot is made out of other sides and their injuries, but we also had Pogba out for close to half the season, Cavani injured and suspended from the start of the season through to December, Rashford suffered a fractured back, Martial missed close to 3 months, and we had to literally field 6 youth players on the bench in a few games once most of our depth players picked up injuries. We had our fair share of injuries, and it still took a record breaking City side to beat us to the title.

The one thing that bugged me most regarding the media's criticism of Ole was them calling him a bottle job in the cups. No other manager is judged on winning a cup like Ole is, there are 2 domestic trophies in the league, so at best 2 sides will win a cup each season, that does not mean the other 18 are failures. The only reason the criticism of Ole gained traction was because he was always making it to semi finals before being knocked out, where as if he had followed the path of Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs etc and just been knocked out earlier, then no one would have said anything. Ole also faced more premier league opposition in the cup competitions than any other manager whilst he was in charge. The only one you can really say was a failure was the EL final last season, and even that took over 20 penalties to decide, still we should have found a way to win that and it was a mark against his name.

Ole was a fantastic man manager but his issue this season was that he decided to go into the season with a large squad and it was a lack of game time that resulted in Lingard, Martial, Dalot, Bailly and Henderson starting to get restless and then that was followed up by Pogba's agent criticizing the club in public. As well as Cavani telling the club he wanted to leave England, it just become a mess too big for any manager. Thats also been the issue now under Rangnick, its why things havent improved as much as we had hoped.

So I'd say Ole's problem was squad building, which should have been in the control of a director of football and transfer team to help with that side of the game, instead it was Ole and Woodward. There are some managers, your likes of Zidane who are able to get the best out of high reputation star players, but he struggles with younger players who aren't at that level yet. You then have managers such as Klopp and Mourinho who need a squad thats built on character and system players to excel. Ole fell into the second category, he did reasonably well when he had a squad with low egos, but played with character. However, looking back now it made no sense that we went for players that were just never going to buy into that style of play.

The issue with the club is the culture and players, Van Gaal warned us, Mourinho warned us, and now its Rangnick.
Interesting take on things and see where you're coming from but still can't connect all the dots on this.

Noticed you didn't mention that this squad was one of the most expensively assembled squads in history. Also didn't bring to light that Ole was massively backed by the management so we had everything pretty much given to him. You claim it was out of his hands. OK. But you still can surely make things work if you're a half decent manager?

Let's be honest. He overachieved with the 2nd place finish which was more down the the bad luck of other clubs rather than you being that good. The form this year only ilustrates this especially when you consider you've added talent to it.

It just seems like people are glossing over what Ole was doing to United before he was sacked as if it was just a blip and nothing much. YOu were absolutely terrible with him. Sorry. And that was after signing Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. Are we just supposed to forget that and focus on his 2nd placed finish the previous season?

I honestly don't understand it with some of this talk.

Rangnick is struggling which shows Ole was great at man managing and a decent manager? If that were really the case then those players wouldn't be behaving the way they are now as they'd already be used to being professional. If Ole really was as half decent as you guys are saying then surely more of the team would be performing?

"No other manager is judged on winning a cup like Ole is" ...

Really? Man. How much grief did Klopp kop in the first few years? Look at Chelsea when they are sacked even if they win a cup. Don't buy that statement for a second but at the same time it's Man United. Of course the expectations are high

I'll let you in on a secret. Ole was judged so much because United spent so so so much on players and had and still don't have anything to show for it. Of course he's going to be judged on winning cups, and when you scraped through the CL this year, out of the title race 12 games in ... of course people are going to judge him. It's Man United FFS!

Have said it before. Think Ole did well to get the attitude of the team to a certain level and it seemed as though the team was playing for each other. At times I think tactically he did well also, but more often than not he was outclasses. But that's no where near enough what the expectations should be for a top side and especially United.

With the amount he spent, the level of players that were already at the club, he should've be doign a lot better.
 
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