Official Team List Round 20 v Knights + Match Discussion

[Kempsey Dog]

I agree that Ponga is the Knights big gun in attack. But his defence is not up to 1st grade standard. That is why he has never been moved to 6. Agree about O’Brien.

Knights need a massive changes...

New coach - Shane Flanagan
Assistants - John Morris / Buderus

New Halves - Munster and Flanno (they don't get Munster imo they are ducked for years to come)

CTW - need to replace Gagai and find a new left wing

Edge backrowers: they need x 2 new ones as Frizzell is done there and needs to be in the middle. This creates a dilemma though as Elliot's best position is lock.

14. Mann has been there before and seems most likely, but for a team that seems to rely heavily on their forwards, not having a zippy hooker on the bench like Starling seems odd.

Either way they are stuck in a denial phase and don't think they need a rebuild.

 

[jordansaba]

do we think waddles just walks back into the team next week?

 

[Family Guy]

do we think waddles just walks back into the team next week?

No...he's still for 4 more weeks

 

[The DoggFather]

do we think waddles just walks back into the team next week?

If Topine continues this form and improves, Waddles would take Stinksons bench spot at best.

 

[EXPLORER]

Dogs clocked off in the second half, literally took their eyes off the ball on occasions.
But Knights never looked like scoring. Far too reliant on Ponga in attack.

Feel like it would have been very different game if ponga played

Had a great day out though

 

[jordansaba]

No...he's still for 4 more weeks

oh yeah fuck im an idiot sorry boys lol

 

[Philistine]

We were a forty point better team than Newcastle on Sunday. We could have had three or four more tries if the ball had just bounced our way occasionally. All the 50:50s went Newcastle's way (so what else is new) and we were flat out robbed of six points when JAC was heading for the line with only daylight in front of him, only to be pulled back and "awarded" a penalty.

 

[COVENS]

If Topine continues this form and improves, Waddles would take Stinksons bench spot at best.

I kinda like what Stimson is doing off the bench

 

[Baseball Furies]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1553643671316496384

Burton looking like he’s loving the badge!

 

[KLil]

Hopefully it was aimed at that b1tch Klemmer

I'd say it was O'brien... Didnt Potter have an affiliation with the Knights at one stage?

 

[OldDogFan]

U carry on like one day the dogs and raiders will play the Adam Elliott cup. The only way that happens maybe is if Elliott dies unexpectedly

And the victory song is "Sweet Caroline" no matter who wins.

 

[OldDogFan]

Should have been 30-0 at least. Both their tries had forward passes in them (obvious ones) and Schuopp butchered a certain try for JAC by getting in the way.

And the move when the ref pulled up JAC when he was off for a try...what happened to playing the advantage... that cost us another 6 points.

 

[RefWorld]

This piece of shit wishes he was that wanker.

This dud got sacked reffing under 10s.

WTF, are you seriously placing less credence in what a coach achieved with multiple teams in the ESL compared to what they have or rather haven't achieved at the Tigers, the place where coaching careers go to die.

There are just as many successful coaches from ESL that have had success in the NRL, Chris Anderson, Trent Robinson, etc. Of course it's not the be all and end all as to who will make a good NRL head coach but then neither is being a successful assistant coach in the NRL, as has been proven many times.


Always a Bulldog

 

[RefWorld]

WTF, are you seriously placing less credence in what a coach achieved with multiple teams in the ESL compared to what they have or rather haven't achieved at the Tigers, the place where coaching careers go to die.

There are just as many successful coaches from ESL that have had success in the NRL, Chris Anderson, Trent Robinson, etc. Of course it's not the be all and end all as to who will make a good NRL head coach but then neither is being a successful assistant coach in the NRL, as has been proven many times.


Always a Bulldog

"WTF, are you seriously placing less credence in what a coach achieved with multiple teams in the ESL"

Yes.

"compared to what they have or rather haven't achieved at the Tigers, the place where coaching careers go to die."

Plenty of coaches careers have died at the Bulldogs too. Take the blinkers off.

Cheers,
RW

 

[TwinTurbo]

"WTF, are you seriously placing less credence in what a coach achieved with multiple teams in the ESL"

Yes.

"compared to what they have or rather haven't achieved at the Tigers, the place where coaching careers go to die."

Plenty of coaches careers have died at the Bulldogs too. Take the blinkers off.

Cheers,
RW

Thank you, exactly my point, there is no one absolute guide as to which coach makes it at NRL level and which one doesn’t.

Always a Bulldog

 

[RefWorld]

RW you raise some very interesting points regarding referees. Your comment about 17 year old referee being abused by parents, happened to me when I was about 18-19, when I was refereeing in the now defunct Wests Ashfield competition.

A mother on the sideline was abusing the crap out of me, for just about every decision I made. Eventually I had enough. I asked the Ground Marshall to escort the woman to her car and she is to stay there. I then resumed the game.

Her son yelled out, see Mum, I told you to keep your f——- big mouth shut.

A couple of nights later I was asked to front the referees appointment board at Wests to explain my actions, which were deemed out of order.

I asked one simple question, “what should I have done”. None of the board could give me a definitive answer. They all just looked at each other.

You raised the point about what a ref has to watch and what the touch judges do.

When I was 22, I started to ref Junior reps which in those days was SG Ball (under 15’s) and then a couple of years later Jersey Flagg (under 18’s).

I did a game on a very wet day at Shark Park where Balmain really had me on edge all day. Their 2nd marker was so quick out of there I had to watch him like a hawk. Almost at the same time their right centre was creeping, and I asked the touch judge on that side to extend his flag if he thought the centre was offside. Never at any stage did I get a call. I pretty much knew I was on my own with making decisions.

I have felt since the game escalated in speed, around the mid 90’s that 2 referees is a must. One to watch the ruck, the other to mark the 10 metres (5 in my day).

Touch judges in the main are touch judges because either they are not good enough to be in the middle, or in the case of some now retired touchies, got too old to be in the middle and went to the sideline.

The one on the side the ball is going to is SUPPOSED to be in line with the ball to pick up forward passes. The other a few metres behind the play the play to pick up incidents off the ball. Thus their positions change regularly and quickly.

To me the hardest forward pass to pick up is the little short one thrown by the dummy half. Kerrod Walters in particular and others got away with that sort of stuff for their entire careers. Watch the hands. The ball goes in the same direction as the hands almost all the time.

IMHO we need to go back to 2 referees. The more senior ref marks the 10 metres, the junior one looking after the ruck.

Agree with everything you've said gbrussell, including the two refs. The games is just too fast these days for one ref.

I've seen so many young refs give it away because refereeing a schoolboys game can be a frightening experience.
The way obnoxious people who have no idea what they are talking about treat refs is just frigging disgraceful.

The only thing I'd add, that you might have encountered in your time in juniors reps, is some of the politics and
personalities involved. It's not always the best young refs that get appointed to games or who are chosen to be centres
over those given the 'opportunity' to be a touch judge.

And the push in recent years to promote some female refs and touch judges over better male refs and touch judges.
(You might not agree with that part, I understand if you don't. It's an area that causes a lot of discontent and discussion
and people have different views on it.)

Can I ask... Would you say that overall you enjoyed your time as a ref and in junior reps, or in hindsight, would you rather
have spent your time doing other things?

Cheers,
RW

 

[RefWorld]

I'd say it was O'brien... Didnt Potter have an affiliation with the Knights at one stage?

He was an assistant coach under Nathan Brown for a couple of years.

Cheers,
RW

 

[gbrussell]

Agree with everything you've said gbrussell, including the two refs. The games is just too fast these days for one ref.

I've seen so many young refs give it away because refereeing a schoolboys game can be a frightening experience.
The way obnoxious people who have no idea what they are talking about treat refs is just frigging disgraceful.

The only thing I'd add, that you might have encountered in your time in juniors reps, is some of the politics and
personalities involved. It's not always the best young refs that get appointed to games or who are chosen to be centres
over those given the 'opportunity' to be a touch judge.

And the push in recent years to promote some female refs and touch judges over better male refs and touch judges.
(You might not agree with that part, I understand if you don't. It's an area that causes a lot of discontent and discussion
and people have different views on it.)

Can I ask... Would you say that overall you enjoyed your time as a ref and in junior reps, or in hindsight, would you rather
have spent your time doing other things?

Cheers,
RW

Firstly RW it is nice to have a sensible discussion with you.

I started reffing when I was 16. My science teacher at Bankstown Boys High was a 1st grade Touch Judge, Ian McCall. He was reffing the school first grade game and asked me one day to help him as a touch judge. I made 2 decisions, 1 on a try, one on a no try in the same corner which apparently impressed him.

The next day after Science class he said I had what it takes to be a referee and he could help me achieve that.

During my time there weren’t a lot of female referees around, so I can’t comment on that. I think if they are good enough by all means give them a go.

Abuse from the sidelines has been happening for years. I have heard that in the last few years parents have to sign a code of conduct form, which can see their sons get suspended if things get out of control. Is that true? Good move if so.

I didn’t find there was a great deal of politics in Junior Reps. The guy who ran the Junior Reps referees was the late Tom Bellew who was always a pretty straight shooter.

I approached him one day about my appointments as I always seemed to be heading north to either North Sydney or Brookvale. I asked him if there were more Northern or centrally based referees who would rather not go to Cronulla, Parramatta or Penrith. (I was not allowed to do my area team which was Western Suburbs). He was receptive to my idea

From that point on I did a lot of games at either Shark Park or Penrith, with occasional trips to other places.

Overall I enjoyed my 23 years blowing the whistle. There were some controversial decisions, many of which were on touch judge advice, that were correct but changed games.

I can recounts LOTS of stories about things that happened in games, but they might be best kept in private messages, if you want to take this conversation further.

You talk about people with no idea, who abuse refs. It does annoy me too. My pet hate in the NRL is refs who respond to home crowd pressure , rather than reacting to what they see, I see lots of games where the penalty count is astronomically in favour of the home side by something like 9-2 or 10-3.

Klein fell for it in Origin 3. How he didn’t sin bin Tino F Is beyond me.

 

[RefWorld]

Knights need a massive changes...

New coach - Shane Flanagan
Assistants - John Morris / Buderus

New Halves - Munster and Flanno (they don't get Munster imo they are ducked for years to come)

CTW - need to replace Gagai and find a new left wing

Edge backrowers: they need x 2 new ones as Frizzell is done there and needs to be in the middle. This creates a dilemma though as Elliot's best position is lock.

14. Mann has been there before and seems most likely, but for a team that seems to rely heavily on their forwards, not having a zippy hooker on the bench like Starling seems odd.

Either way they are stuck in a denial phase and don't think they need a rebuild.

I don’t think any club wants Flanno as a coach, for obvious reasons, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were looking at Mick Lantry,
he came close to getting the gig in 2017, but you never really know.

For assistant coaches, defence, I think the Knights are looking at reserve grade coach Mark O’Meley and former reserve grade
coach now coaching South Newcastle, Andrew Ryan: The attack coach, I have no idea, but Joey Johns will play a bigger role there
next year I believe.

They’ve got plenty of good forwards, Leo Thompson is going to be a quality player after his first year of RL after switching from Union,
I think the Knights have a second-row spot lined up for him after a second pre-season of RL. And I think Brodie Jones could still be a
good second rower when he gets over his injuries and I know the Knights rate Ben Talty.

Bradman Best is a class centre, if he would stop breaking bones and Dom Young is a centre, not a winger and Gagai is a winger,
not a centre. And there’s a couple of really good prospects in Dylan Lucas and Chris Vea’ila.

Halves are the problem, as they are for a lot of clubs, but nobody wants Kyle Flanagan.
The Knights are still interested in Luke Brookes and it may be the case that a change of club would be the best thing
for him under Andrew Johns.

Jake Clifford was playing well at 5/8 until he had personal issues at home and took time off the game.
And Simi Sasagi has always been a 5/8 but they’ve played him everywhere except 5/8.

And I’d love to see Bailey Hodgson get a crack, if he can stop breaking his elbow. He could go well at half back.

Ponga is an elite fullback, if he can stay on the field and stop getting head knocks. Jayden Brailey is a quality hooker,
but has missed almost two full seasons in the past three years with an ACL and then his achilles tendon.

The Knights problems are their halves and their coach.

One other huge problem the club have had since The Wests Group took over is that while Wests Group CEO Philip Gardner
is one of the best leagues club administrators around, he knows jack shit about running a football team. The addition of
Peter Parr as Director of Football this week solves that problem.

Cheers,
RW.

 

[EL Hefe]

I won't be surprised if the Knights Chase Mick Potter after they sack O'Brien next year.