Talent pool too shallow for NRL to expand competition, Andrew Johns says

[chisdog]

Rugby League cannot have the nation wide appeal that AFL and cricket have and we should not try to copy them

but League can and should dominate the eastern seaboard throughout NSW, ACT & QLD and has the added bonus of New Zealand that can add team(s) and players

I also think the game should be more cynical when it comes to Union and more actively undermine their junior participation levels, playing ranks, sponsors etc... basically, I believe League the better game and the better TV product

I still think they should have persisted with the reds & rams, instead they put them together with Hunter & formed the storm

 

[ALX25]

like the storm, the giant leaches that they are, set up an academy....on the sunshine coast

They only did it after the fact of letting go a few promising Sunny Coast juniors.

 

[Pity Fool]

NRL have always been, and still are the dumbest most corrupt administrators of any sport! The first thing I think of whenever the term expansion teams is mentioned is, the competition is severely lacking enough talented players to field entertaining, competitive teams each week for the 16 teams we already have, there’s no way they could introduce more teams to the comp the talent pool would be diluted even more resulting in poor quality games! But hey, V’Landys and Abdo seem hellbent on destroying the game ie the stupid new rules, so why not kill the game even more by introducing more teams... seems logical if your goal was to make the sport unwatchable right?

 

[Pity Fool]

The only joy I get out of the NRL these days is bagging the fuck out of it here with you guys! I haven’t watched a single game since I cancelled my foxtel subscription, and oh how much happier and calmer I have been since then. Paying to watch NRL on foxtel is equivalent to listening to the missus whinge and moan about stupid meaningless shit for hours on end, it’s painful and not worth doing so you just have to walk away before they both drive you insane.

 

[Cappuccino]

Couldn't find an existing thread on this, figured heres the best place
12/16 clubs have commissioned a report into expansion. It came out yesterday but TItans seem to be on the front foot about it
Overall it seems more negatives than positives..surprise surprise



--

Gold Coast chief executive Steve Mitchell insists the Gemba Group report into expansion isn’t designed to scupper plans to introduce a 17th team to the premiership.
On Wednesday The Australian revealed details of the report which suggested expansion could further dilute playing talent and exacerbate an already lopsided competition.

“If expansion is good for the whole of the game, we need to do it,” Mitchell said.


“But if expansion is done quickly at the cost to the game and the existing clubs, then we need to pause and think it through.

“This is about getting the analysis complete and not being romanticised by the fact that expansion is the be all and end all. If it is detrimental to us, you have to ask why.

“We would like to see some dialogue on a number of the potential risks to the clubs and game that have been highlighted by the report.

“This is a huge decision and not one we can unpack easily. It needs to be very thorough. All shareholders are due a decent consultation and understanding of the business case moving forward and there may be a lot of merit to it.

“At the moment there is not a lot of substance.”

The Gemba Group investigation, paid for by 12 of the games 16 clubs, is now in the hands of the NRL. Its findings have raised alarm bells in clubland, most notably among the existing Queensland clubs and Melbourne Storm, who rely on Queensland for much of their talent.

The Gemba Group found positives to adding another team in southeast Queensland, most notably an increase in viewing figures and as a result, a potential lift in broadcast revenue — Gemba estimated broadcast dollars could increase by $13 million if 12 additional matches were broadcast on Foxtel and $25 million if they were simulcast on free-to-air television as well.

They also found that an additional team in southeast Queensland could help pathways and participation, two areas that are of particular concern to ARL Commission chair Peter V’landys.

However, the positives were outweighed to a large extent by the negatives. The Gemba Group warned of a dilution in talent leading to more blowout scorelines.

They warned of the increasing pressure placed on Queensland clubs by another team in the region. They suggested there would be an inflationary effect on wages for players and coaching staff.


“Clubs believe that expansion cost implications could potentially be compounded if introducing a new team is rushed and the club doesn’t have sufficient time to recruit players and staff or develop young talent,” the report concluded.

“An additional team in Brisbane will create more competition for government funding among teams in Queensland for things such as the development of playing and training facilities.

“There will also be an increase in the supply of content which will reduce the opportunity for existing teams to play regional matches.

“The additional buying power in the market may result in the inflation of player salaries as well as players being able to sign contracts valued higher than they are currently

“The current issues related to the strain on certain clubs with significant level of injuries may be compounded as a result of expansion as a higher proportion of lists may be made up of lower-end or less experienced talent.”

Mitchell, whose club was among the 12 who contributed to the Gemba Group report, insists the clubs aren’t looking to do a hatchet job on expansion or the NRL.

They just want to make sure the game is armed with as much information as possible before they make a final call on whether to add a 17th team.

“This is all about doing a high level of due diligence around expansion,” Mitchell said.

“There is a potential commercial upside that has to be realised … with the fact a redraft of the draw with 17 teams will give us 12 extra games.

“The other part is that if there is some commercial upside in revenue, the greater fear is that upside doesn’t underwrite or annul the risks to the games - the quality of the product on the field, the dilution of the player group at a time when the competition is already going through an interesting transition.

“Then the pressure is on clubs. It is going to add inflationary pressures to the player group, it is going to add inflationary pressure to coaching resources and staff resources, it is going to cannibalise fanatical fans.

“We just want to state the risks that are there and that are real.”

 

[Philmus]

Couldn't find an existing thread on this, figured heres the best place
12/16 clubs have commissioned a report into expansion. It came out yesterday but TItans seem to be on the front foot about it
Overall it seems more negatives than positives..surprise surprise



--

Gold Coast chief executive Steve Mitchell insists the Gemba Group report into expansion isn’t designed to scupper plans to introduce a 17th team to the premiership.
On Wednesday The Australian revealed details of the report which suggested expansion could further dilute playing talent and exacerbate an already lopsided competition.

“If expansion is good for the whole of the game, we need to do it,” Mitchell said.


“But if expansion is done quickly at the cost to the game and the existing clubs, then we need to pause and think it through.

“This is about getting the analysis complete and not being romanticised by the fact that expansion is the be all and end all. If it is detrimental to us, you have to ask why.

“We would like to see some dialogue on a number of the potential risks to the clubs and game that have been highlighted by the report.

“This is a huge decision and not one we can unpack easily. It needs to be very thorough. All shareholders are due a decent consultation and understanding of the business case moving forward and there may be a lot of merit to it.

“At the moment there is not a lot of substance.”

The Gemba Group investigation, paid for by 12 of the games 16 clubs, is now in the hands of the NRL. Its findings have raised alarm bells in clubland, most notably among the existing Queensland clubs and Melbourne Storm, who rely on Queensland for much of their talent.

The Gemba Group found positives to adding another team in southeast Queensland, most notably an increase in viewing figures and as a result, a potential lift in broadcast revenue — Gemba estimated broadcast dollars could increase by $13 million if 12 additional matches were broadcast on Foxtel and $25 million if they were simulcast on free-to-air television as well.

They also found that an additional team in southeast Queensland could help pathways and participation, two areas that are of particular concern to ARL Commission chair Peter V’landys.

However, the positives were outweighed to a large extent by the negatives. The Gemba Group warned of a dilution in talent leading to more blowout scorelines.

They warned of the increasing pressure placed on Queensland clubs by another team in the region. They suggested there would be an inflationary effect on wages for players and coaching staff.


“Clubs believe that expansion cost implications could potentially be compounded if introducing a new team is rushed and the club doesn’t have sufficient time to recruit players and staff or develop young talent,” the report concluded.

“An additional team in Brisbane will create more competition for government funding among teams in Queensland for things such as the development of playing and training facilities.

“There will also be an increase in the supply of content which will reduce the opportunity for existing teams to play regional matches.

“The additional buying power in the market may result in the inflation of player salaries as well as players being able to sign contracts valued higher than they are currently

“The current issues related to the strain on certain clubs with significant level of injuries may be compounded as a result of expansion as a higher proportion of lists may be made up of lower-end or less experienced talent.”

Mitchell, whose club was among the 12 who contributed to the Gemba Group report, insists the clubs aren’t looking to do a hatchet job on expansion or the NRL.

They just want to make sure the game is armed with as much information as possible before they make a final call on whether to add a 17th team.

“This is all about doing a high level of due diligence around expansion,” Mitchell said.

“There is a potential commercial upside that has to be realised … with the fact a redraft of the draw with 17 teams will give us 12 extra games.

“The other part is that if there is some commercial upside in revenue, the greater fear is that upside doesn’t underwrite or annul the risks to the games - the quality of the product on the field, the dilution of the player group at a time when the competition is already going through an interesting transition.

“Then the pressure is on clubs. It is going to add inflationary pressures to the player group, it is going to add inflationary pressure to coaching resources and staff resources, it is going to cannibalise fanatical fans.

“We just want to state the risks that are there and that are real.”

Were the dogs one of the 12? I wonder who the 4 were that didnt participate. I tend to agree with the comment about talent dilution though, we're seeing it now more so than any other year previously, theres Melbourne and Penrith on their own tier as the only two clubs that can really take it out, then Rabbitohs, Manly, Parramatta on the 2nd tier who are travelling well but not as good as the top 2, then from say 6th-10th on a level below who are average clubs, then 10-14th are the struggling clubs rounded up by us and the broncos on the bottom who have absolutely no chance of winning anything except the spoon. Another club would just make things worse

 

[Cappuccino]

Gemba_NRL-Expansion-Analysis_Final-Report_170621.pdf

NRL Expansion Analysis | Final Report 17 JUNE 2021. COMMERCIAL IN CONFIDENCE. Commercial in Confidence. CONTENTS. GEMBA© – NRL EXPANSION ANALYSIS – FINAL REPORT. 2. Commercial in Confidence. GEMBA© – NRL EXPANSION ANALYSIS – FINAL REPORT. 3. ...

docdro.id

Here is the full report for anyone interested.

Unsure if Dogs were part of 12

 

[chisdog]

Interesting NRL saying no & AFL looking to add a Tasmanian team. The AFL have had an abomination of a last 18 months financially & plenty of crap teams meaning not enough talent to go around & they are willing to look at it positively. Gold Coast hasn't been anything but a basket case & GWS will no doubt start to slide.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I really don't care how many negatives there are, just as long as the Donkeys lose their monopoly over Brisbane.

Always a Bulldog

 

[Dognacious]

We need to start expanding the game to the west coast, even a failing team out in Perth will see more kids growing up wanting to play rugby league. Pre-covid i was traveling around Australia quite frequently and anytime I'd be in WA, SA or TAS, you wouldn't see a single NRL jersey, on saturdays you'd have plenty of kids playing junior soccer or aussie rules.

They already tried that and failed.

 

[Dognacious]

If they add teams they will need to couple it with a draft system or something, otherwise they are just increasing the number of teams with no chance of winning the comp

 

[COVENS]

If they add teams they will need to couple it with a draft system or something, otherwise they are just increasing the number of teams with no chance of winning the comp

This has got to be a priority imo. It makes no sense guys like Walker and Suaalii have ended up on a team that won back to back premierships in the last 4 seasons

 

[D0GMATIC]

Its hard to disagree, We are finding it hard to replace the players we would like to discard,with anyone of better quality

 

[Scoooby]

Don’t need another team, will just make it more messy, and the corruption even more blatant, all these ideas and rule changes is what is making the nrl ridiculous.!!!

 

[TwinTurbo]

The problem is not that the "talent pool is too small", the real issue is that the talent is not spread around. Between just 4 teams (Penrith, Chooks, Melbourne and Wabbits), with players not getting an NRL gig every week, a pretty good team could be on the field. That's before we even get into the NSW and Qld Cup players that should be getting regular NRL games.

There's an obvious self fulfilling prophecy going on in the NRL, where the better teams attract the better players, the better players make the better teams better, the better teams attract more better players and so the circle continues.

Players play for the better teams for hundreds of thousands of dollars less, be it because they believe that they will be made into better players or simply want a better chance to win premierships. This means the Salary Cap doesn't work to even up the spread of players, the result is the better teams (with their "discount") have an "effective Cap" $1m to $2m more than midfield teams (who have to pay the going rate) and $2m to $3m more then the cellar dwellers (who have to pay overs). With that severe a handicap it's very hard for any team to work their way up the pecking order.

Always a Bulldog

 

[Grunthos]

I have said it before and ill say it yet again, the NRL is making the game only playable by elite athletes.
There was also a time when there was a place on the field for every shape and size, from the skinny little whippet to the big boofy guy. Now the game is best suited to players who are big, fast, and athletic, like Sonny Bill etc, this is bad for the development of the game at the grassroots level in the long run as kids who are keen and want to progress to higher levels but just don't have the athletic build and stamina required to complete satisfactorily and will fall by the wayside.
Now only Rugby Union can cater to all shapes and sizes from U6 mini through to senior grade and this has a lot of appeal for kids left behind by Soccer and Ausy rules and now, unfortunately, league

 

[Kempsey Dog]

NRL should have fucked off the Sharks when they had the chance... Same goes for west Tigers when they were struggling financially.

 

[Como Dog]

I still think they should have persisted with the reds & rams, instead they put them together with Hunter & formed the storm

For non rugby league states they were still pulling close to 10,000 per game often more, even when the teams weren't good.

 

[Como Dog]

I have said it before and ill say it yet again, the NRL is making the game only playable by elite athletes.
There was also a time when there was a place on the field for every shape and size, from the skinny little whippet to the big boofy guy. Now the game is best suited to players who are big, fast, and athletic, like Sonny Bill etc, this is bad for the development of the game at the grassroots level in the long run as kids who are keen and want to progress to higher levels but just don't have the athletic build and stamina required to complete satisfactorily and will fall by the wayside.
Now only Rugby Union can cater to all shapes and sizes from U6 mini through to senior grade and this has a lot of appeal for kids left behind by Soccer and Ausy rules and now, unfortunately, league

That's a really good point you raise. Imagine Steve Folkes trying to play 2nd row now!

 

[Como Dog]

NRL should have fucked off the Sharks when they had the chance... Same goes for west Rogers when they were struggling financially.

Yep rather than offering teams $8 million to merge originally it should have been $10 million to relocate only. First come first served as well.

After that when those teams struggled it could have been bye or a discretionary relocation.