Shaun Johnson consolidated thread

EzyB

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Where is 13 million??? :(


2018 Predicted Lineup
  1. Moses Mbye
  2. Brett Morris
  3. Josh Morris
  4. Moses Suli
  5. Will Hopoate
  6. Fa’amanu Brown
  7. Kieran Foran
  8. Aaron Woods
  9. Michael Lichaa
  10. Aiden Tolman
  11. Josh Jackson ©
  12. Adam Elliott
  13. David Klemmer
    INTERCHANGE
  14. Rhyse Martin
  15. Clay Priest
  16. Raymond Faitala-Mariner
  17. Greg Eastwood
Coach: Dean Pay

Reserves: John Olive, Danny Fualalo, Matt Frawley, Kerrod Holland.

The Big Question: Will new coach Dean Pay loosen the chains ex-coach Des Hasler placed on this football side?

Predicted Finish: 13th
Foran took half that cap lol
 

Philmus

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2018 Predicted Lineup
  1. Moses Mbye $750k
  2. Brett Morris $750k
  3. Josh Morris $750k
  4. Moses Suli $0
  5. Will Hopoate $800k
  6. Fa’amanu Brown $350k
  7. Kieran Foran $1m
  8. Aaron Woods $600k
  9. Michael Lichaa $450k
  10. Aiden Tolman $700k
  11. Josh Jackson © $750k
  12. Adam Elliott $400k
  13. David Klemmer $700k
    INTERCHANGE
  14. Rhyse Martin $400k
  15. Clay Priest $10.80 and a packet of winnie blues third party
  16. Raymond Faitala-Mariner $350k
  17. Greg Eastwood $800k
Coach: Dean Pay $12.20 and a pie from the servo

Reserves: John Olive $120k, Danny Fualalo $120k, Matt Frawley $250k, Kerrod Holland $350k
I had a rough go at it estimating what people earnt as i actually have no idea and still only get $10.3m, a packets of smokes and a pie. I assume the other $2.7, goes to the other 9 in the top 30 and i may have been short on guessing some of the wages too though
 

CaptainJackson

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I had a rough go at it estimating what people earnt as i actually have no idea and still only get $10.3m, a packets of smokes and a pie. I assume the other $2.7, goes to the other 9 in the top 30 and i may have been short on guessing some of the wages too though
Morris brothers were on 600k each

Woods 800k
Tolmand 800k or could have been last year he was on 800k not sure
 

bradyk

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That further adds substance to my query.

How do you reckon Dib/Des/Rae thought they would manage to get out of a 13 million roster with the salary cap auditor?

And pls list the roster and money apportioned to each so we can add it up to 13 million.

We need proof, not personal opinions.
I don't know exactly how much as like you said we'd be guessing how much players are on, but logically if we were only playing to a 10m salary cap (an extra 600k like you said previously) then we'd only have to move on 1 player (e.g. Mbye) which obviously wasn't the case, we ended up losing all of our best players and we only replaced 1 of them in Klemmer bringing Napa in. This isn't a personal opinion. I don't think I can simplify this anymore for you, so if you don't see what I'm saying I can't help you anymore.
 
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wendog33

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I had a rough go at it estimating what people earnt as i actually have no idea and still only get $10.3m, a packets of smokes and a pie. I assume the other $2.7, goes to the other 9 in the top 30 and i may have been short on guessing some of the wages too though
Thanks for having a go at it.

Others might refine and add their input and post the actual Top 30, but it's all round a terrible situation for the club with such long running consequences.
 

Philmus

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Morris brothers were on 600k each

Woods 800k
Tolmand 800k or could have been last year he was on 800k not sure
  1. Moses Mbye $750k
  2. Brett Morris $750k
  3. Josh Morris $750k
  4. Moses Suli $0
  5. Will Hopoate $800k
  6. Fa’amanu Brown $350k
  7. Kieran Foran $1m
  8. Aaron Woods $600k
  9. Michael Lichaa $450k
  10. Aiden Tolman $700k
  11. Josh Jackson © $750k
  12. Adam Elliott $400k
  13. David Klemmer $700k
    INTERCHANGE
  14. Rhyse Martin $400k
  15. Clay Priest $10.80 and a packet of winnie blues third party
  16. Raymond Faitala-Mariner $350k
  17. Greg Eastwood $800k
Coach: Dean Pay $12.20 and a pie from the servo

Reserves: John Olive $120k, Danny Fualalo $120k, Matt Frawley $250k, Kerrod Holland $350k

This is what i added up on my previous post. Some stupid amounts of money for some very average players
 

Philmus

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Thanks for having a go at it.

Others might refine and add their input and post the actual Top 30, but it's all round a terrible situation for the club with such long running consequences.
Also we wouldve been paying for others to play against us at that point too dont forget like Jimmy Graham etc
 

wendog33

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I don't know exactly how much as like you said we'd be guessing how much players are on, but logically if we were only playing to a 10m salary cap (an extra 600k like you said previously) then we'd only have to move on 1 player (e.g. Mbye) which obviously wasn't the case, we ended up losing all of our best players and we only replaced 1 of them in Klemmer bringing Napa in. This isn't a personal opinion. I don't think I can simplify this anymore for you, so if you don't see what I'm saying I can't help you anymore.
You are missing the point and yes you are correct...you can't help.
 

wendog33

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Also we wouldve been paying for others to play against us at that point too dont forget like Jimmy Graham etc
Abbey? Any one got anyone else as of Anderson Board coming in Feb 2018?
 

oldpuppy

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Where is 13 million??? :(


2018 Predicted Lineup
  1. Moses Mbye
  2. Brett Morris
  3. Josh Morris
  4. Moses Suli
  5. Will Hopoate
  6. Fa’amanu Brown
  7. Kieran Foran
  8. Aaron Woods
  9. Michael Lichaa
  10. Aiden Tolman
  11. Josh Jackson ©
  12. Adam Elliott
  13. David Klemmer
    INTERCHANGE
  14. Rhyse Martin
  15. Clay Priest
  16. Raymond Faitala-Mariner
  17. Greg Eastwood
Coach: Dean Pay

Reserves: John Olive, Danny Fualalo, Matt Frawley, Kerrod Holland.

The Big Question: Will new coach Dean Pay loosen the chains ex-coach Des Hasler placed on this football side?

Predicted Finish: 13th
I've seen that line up appear on that TV show *who wants to be a millionaire*.
And most of them won.
Even suli and he never appeared as a contestant.
 

chisdog

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  1. Moses Mbye $750k
  2. Brett Morris $750k
  3. Josh Morris $750k
  4. Moses Suli $0
  5. Will Hopoate $800k
  6. Fa’amanu Brown $350k
  7. Kieran Foran $1m
  8. Aaron Woods $600k
  9. Michael Lichaa $450k
  10. Aiden Tolman $700k
  11. Josh Jackson © $750k
  12. Adam Elliott $400k
  13. David Klemmer $700k
    INTERCHANGE
  14. Rhyse Martin $400k
  15. Clay Priest $10.80 and a packet of winnie blues third party
  16. Raymond Faitala-Mariner $350k
  17. Greg Eastwood $800k
Coach: Dean Pay $12.20 and a pie from the servo

Reserves: John Olive $120k, Danny Fualalo $120k, Matt Frawley $250k, Kerrod Holland $350k

This is what i added up on my previous post. Some stupid amounts of money for some very average players
Boy did we overpay on Priest! From memory there was a violet crumble bar in there too.
 

djdeep4172

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Come on everyone thought flano was the next Cleary.
Waddell was a meh
Elliot the idiot people still praise him
Allen killed it at south’s
So it wasn’t bad to start with but yeah shit happened.
Maybe with all these lemons we can make some lemonade for the 2022 season
 

TwinTurbo

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That further adds substance to my query.
How do you reckon Dib/Des/Rae thought they would manage to get out of a 13 million roster with the salary cap auditor?
And pls list the roster and money apportioned to each so we can add it up to 13 million.
We need proof, not personal opinions.
Hasler's thinking was that he could back end contracts, win a premiership thereby increasing the value of the players and then move them on before their high paying years kicked in. Unfortunately we didn't win a premiership, the value of the players didn't go up, other clubs weren't willing to pay the back ended contract rates and so the players simply stayed to get their due contract value. Keeping in mid that they took a pay cut in the early years and then were fully entitled to the pay back in the later years.

When you have a player like Eastwood (not picking on Greg in any way) for example on $350k in year 1, $600k in year 2 and $850k in year 3, the idea was to win a premiership in year 1 or 2, then move him on and not have to pay the $850k in year 3. When he was on $350k we were OK in the cap, but when he was on $600k we had to "save" $250k to stay under the Cap. Which means moving on say $500k of talent and replacing it with $250k of cheapies (net reduction $250k) because we still had to have 30 players. Then in the 3rd year we have to do the same again, to get another net reduction of $250k. Keeping in mind that "cheapies" had to be recruited from other clubs because there was no junior development.

Of course that's just a simplistic example of one player pushing us in the 3rd year to be $500k over the Cap but when you have 8 or 9 other players like we had, on heavily back ended contracts, the problem multiples. Then they all decide not to move on and/or no one wanted them at their back ended rate, plus there is a limit as to how many cheapies that there are willing to move clubs for a $100k (minimum) contract.

As best I have been able to establish that the following were on back ended contracts of some rate (in brackets 1st year rate versus last year rate) Mbye ($250k), BMorris ($250k), JMorris ($200k), Reynolds ($250k) Hopoate ($300k), Foran ($400k), Woods ($350k), Tolman ($300k), Eastwood ($500k) and Holland ($150k). Add it up and the last year under the Cap compared to the first year under the Cap is ~$3.1m extra.

Hasler never thought he would have to face a Cap audit on the back ended contracts, he thought he could move players on at the appropriate times and stay under the cap.

There is another kicker, when you are desperate to move a player on to avoid the later years contract lift you often have to pay part of that excessive rate to get another club to take them. Triple whammy, you don't have the player AND you are paying the excessive contract in your Cap AND you have to recruit a cheapy to make up the 30.

This is why the NRL banned front and back loaded contracts, as the number of clubs doing it was on the rise there was the risk of multiple clubs getting stuck being over their Caps. Not a good look.

"Proof", good luck with that, but I think you will find at least half of the above back ended contracts have been reported by a number of media outlets.


Always a Bulldog
 
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TwinTurbo

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Come on everyone thought flano was the next Cleary.
Your wrong, I didn't. Unless I'm not considered one of your "everyones"?

Pretty sure BeastMode didn't think that either, surely he is included in the "everyone"?

Always a Bulldog
 

wendog33

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Hasler's thinking was that he could back end contracts, win a premiership thereby increasing the value of the players and then move them on before their high paying years kicked in. Unfortunately we didn't win a premiership, the value of the players didn't go up, other clubs weren't willing to pay the back ended contract rates and so the players simply stayed to get their due contract value. Keeping in mid that they took a pay cut in the early years and then were fully entitled to the pay back in the later years.

When you have a player like Eastwood (not picking on Greg in any way) for example on $350k in year 1, $600k in year 2 and $850k in year 3, the idea was to win a premiership in year 1 or 2, then move him on and not have to pay the $850k in year 3. When he was on $350k we were OK in the cap, but when he was on $600k we had to "save" $250k to stay under the Cap. Which means moving on say $500k of talent and replacing it with $250k of cheapies (net reduction $250k) because we still had to have 30 players. Then in the 3rd year we have to do the same again, to get another net reduction of $250k. Keeping in mind that "cheapies" had to be recruited from other clubs because there was no junior development.

Of course that's just a simplistic example of one player pushing us in the 3rd year to be $500k over the Cap but when you have 8 or 9 other players like we had, on heavily back ended contracts, the problem multiples. Then they all decide not to move on and/or no one wanted them at their back ended rate, plus there is a limit as to how many cheapies that there are willing to move clubs for a $100k contract.

As best I have been able to establish that the following were on back ended contracts of some rate (in brackets 1st year rate versus last year rate) Mbye ($250k), BMorris ($250k), JMorris ($200k), Reynolds ($250k) Hopoate ($300k), Foran ($400k), Woods ($350k), Tolman ($300k), Eastwood ($500k) and Holland ($150k). Add it up and the last year under the Cap compared to the first year under the Cap is $3.1m extra.

Hasler never thought he would have to face a Cap audit on the back ended contracts, he thought he could move players on at the appropriate times and stay under the cap.

There is another kicker, when you are desperate to move a player on to avoid the later years contract lift you often have to pay part of that excessive rate to get another club to take them. Triple whammy, you don't have the player AND you are paying the excessive contract in your Cap AND you have to recruit a cheapy to make up the 30.

This is why the NRL banned front and back loaded contracts, as the number of clubs doing it was on the rise there was the risk of multiple clubs getting stuck being over their Caps. Not a good look.

"Proof", good luck with that, but I think you will find at least half of the above beck ended contracts have been reported by a number of media outlets.


Always a Bulldog
Ok fair enough.

But do you really think Des and Castle honestly thought they could manage all those machinations of money, tax, relocating players.

You put a scenario of 10 or so players at least that were all at least double their value in their last year. Surely even Des and Castle would have been passing bricks when realising that scenario is unworkable and way beyond any sane persons ability to manipulate and therefore arrange such transfers.

Also how could these contracts be approved by the sc committee? Presenting these contracts to the sc auditor, you would imagine simple calculations using your fingers and toes tells you its way over?


Not saying what you've explained is not correct but its hard to accept Des/Dib/Castle as masterminds who thought they were able to pull off such a ever increasing amount of contracts and hire and get rid of players to such an extent.
 

vegny

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Anyone remember the reserve grade comp we won 3 or 4 years ago? We beat sharks i think in final or semi. Sharks were fav and flanno was their half then. We had nu brown i think. Not trying to criticise him too much but he was not that dominating even in lower grade then. Not sure how he bumped up his value so quick. May be the club should take some blame.
 

bulldogsmyte

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Come on everyone thought flano was the next Cleary.
Waddell was a meh
Elliot the idiot people still praise him
Allen killed it at south’s
So it wasn’t bad to start with but yeah shit happened.
Sorry dude but I never rated Flanno and butterfingers Elliot. Check my posts when the Dogs signed Flanno and I said the Chooks only released him because he was a dud. The best recruit this year by a country mile is the veteran Ava who's also the cheapest.
 

bradyk

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Anyone remember the reserve grade comp we won 3 or 4 years ago? We beat sharks i think in final or semi. Sharks were fav and flanno was their half then. We had nu brown i think. Not trying to criticise him too much but he was not that dominating even in lower grade then. Not sure how he bumped up his value so quick. May be the club should take some blame.
From what I've heard Flanagan's been a winner (at least in winning teams) coming through all the grades and he's not used (/played in) to the environment he's currently in.
 
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