Russia vs Ukraine

Tassie Devil

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Doesn't change anything for the soldiers but might make life harder for civilians. He doesn't seem to be able to affect anyone but citizens. He's still trying to cause a surrender by terrorising citizens the coward. He might want to watch out his own citizens don't get rid of him
Lots of talk he's using those citizens as a human shield for his own troops to evacuate Kherson. Does seem to match what's going on, and another desperate measure for a drowning man.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Damn. I mean. Damn. Yes, war is war but ....

22 torture chambers and counting in only one area. WTF


War. That is all.

The UN is widely mocked, but the generation who had to go through WW2 had their reasons for establishing it, they didn't want that level of conflict to happen again. But humans forget...
 

Tassie Devil

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War. That is all.

The UN is widely mocked, but the generation who had to go through WW2 had their reasons for establishing it, they didn't want that level of conflict to happen again. But humans forget...
Madness all of this.

I know war is everywhere and what's been happening in Ukraine is nothing really new.

I guess the feeling in Europe tho is that we never ever expected to have to experience this on our own shores ever again. Not the targetting of civilians. The rape. Torture.

Naive for sure for, as you say, war is war and it's never pretty.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Madness all of this.

I know war is everywhere and what's been happening in Ukraine is nothing really new.

I guess the feeling in Europe tho is that we never ever expected to have to experience this on our own shores ever again. Not the targetting of civilians. The rape. Torture.

Naive for sure for, as you say, war is war and it's never pretty.
Europe has done very well, and by and large the effort to demonise that sort of behaviour, and to encourage a sense of unity through shared values and trade has gone really well. Europe has tried to do this with Russia, and there has been huge amounts of trade partly as a result, but it hasn't been enough, or there has been a failure to recognise the danger signs of the Russian regime going rogue.
 

Tassie Devil

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Europe has done very well, and by and large the effort to demonise that sort of behaviour, and to encourage a sense of unity through shared values and trade has gone really well. Europe has tried to do this with Russia, and there has been huge amounts of trade partly as a result, but it hasn't been enough, or there has been a failure to recognise the danger signs of the Russian regime going rogue.
We sat on our hands really as there were plenty of signs. We just weren't brave enough to stand up against Russia I'm 2014 and other times.

While I'm not expert, it does seem Russia doesn't respond to diplomacy rather to force. Which is something the EU has been keen to avoid, however now there's no choice.

It's all going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets good, but in the end the EU will be much better from this. NATO will be stronger and will the EU.

Russia will inevitably collapse and the regime will have to completely change.

The hard thing is seeing all the death and destruction that awaits ukraines and Russians until that point
 

south of heaven

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We sat on our hands really as there were plenty of signs. We just weren't brave enough to stand up against Russia I'm 2014 and other times.

While I'm not expert, it does seem Russia doesn't respond to diplomacy rather to force. Which is something the EU has been keen to avoid, however now there's no choice.

It's all going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets good, but in the end the EU will be much better from this. NATO will be stronger and will the EU.

Russia will inevitably collapse and the regime will have to completely change.

The hard thing is seeing all the death and destruction that awaits ukraines and Russians until that point
How long are the people of Russia going to accept being locked away from the rest of the world? When sports teams can't compete on a global level, people can't travel, can't have an old lifestyle this generation was accustomed to? It will take a long time to get back to how they were, they basically in lockdown and as we know with covid it's not much fun even more so when the rest of the world can play.
Are the actual people of Russia feeling it and getting frustrated?
 

Psycho Doggie

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We sat on our hands really as there were plenty of signs. We just weren't brave enough to stand up against Russia I'm 2014 and other times.

While I'm not expert, it does seem Russia doesn't respond to diplomacy rather to force. Which is something the EU has been keen to avoid, however now there's no choice.

It's all going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets good, but in the end the EU will be much better from this. NATO will be stronger and will the EU.

Russia will inevitably collapse and the regime will have to completely change.

The hard thing is seeing all the death and destruction that awaits ukraines and Russians until that point
I think you are correct, it has gone too far at this point. Leadership that doesn't look at 1914-18 and how that ended and led to 1939-45, and doesn't understand that at this point there is no ending to what began in 2014 without regime change, if not the over throw of Russia itself, fails to learn the lessons and will no doubt result in increasing the overall suffering to be endured before this episode of human greed, stupidity, and violence is put to an end. The need, at this point, for there to be a decisive conclusion to this conflict in order to properly move on is the reason things will very likely get a lot worse before they get better, and it would be really foolish to rule out nukes at some point.
 

Psycho Doggie

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How long are the people of Russia going to accept being locked away from the rest of the world? When sports teams can't compete on a global level, people can't travel, can't have an old lifestyle this generation was accustomed to? It will take a long time to get back to how they were, they basically in lockdown and as we know with covid it's not much fun even more so when the rest of the world can play.
Are the actual people of Russia feeling it and getting frustrated?
To the best of my understanding reading a range of media, there is some unrest in Russia, but the clear majority are still on the side of Russia, even if grudgingly.

The ordinary Russians have a cultural history of patriotic suffering. They can endure a lot.
 

south of heaven

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To the best of my understanding reading a range of media, there is some unrest in Russia, but the clear majority are still on the side of Russia, even if grudgingly.

The ordinary Russians have a cultural history of patriotic suffering. They can endure a lot.
True back in the day the were locked away from the outside world most of them non the wiser,now with technology and such I wonder how much it will impact the younger generation, surely after while it will have some impact
 

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True back in the day the were locked away from the outside world most of them non the wiser,now with technology and such I wonder how much it will impact the younger generation, surely after while it will have some impact
We can hope, but Russian leadership has done serious atrocities throughout modern history, without there being a change in attitude about that sort of behaviour. There have been changes of leadership and government format, but for unrelated reasons. Germany is an example of fundamental and lasting change in the face of atrocities committed by German leadership.
 

Tassie Devil

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To the best of my understanding reading a range of media, there is some unrest in Russia, but the clear majority are still on the side of Russia, even if grudgingly.

The ordinary Russians have a cultural history of patriotic suffering. They can endure a lot.
Seems to be my take on it too.

People try to compare Putin to Hitler but I don't see that at all, well, for most parts anyway.

Whereas Hitler did generate mass popularity and this true sense of nationalism I don't really see that in Russia.

People in Russia have long accepted that there are certain roles they have to play, and they've got very very little influence on that.

They can see that those who go against the grain either end up in jail or fall out windows ... So, people seem to begrudgingly go along with it all.

Of course, there are still many that support him and believe the absolute nonsense that comes out of his mouth. Maybe it's because they're privileged on the back of Putin's world so they don't want to lose that?

I know Russians here in Slovenia largely don't openly oppose Putin out of fear for their families back in Russia and they own business interests. Fear drives them to conform as they don't believe anything can be changed.

Take the mobilisation as an example. In general, the Russian community wasn't totally against it as they believed they wouldn't be targetted to go. However, when more and more of the 'ordinary' people started getting roped in instead of the ethnic minorities then things changed and they ended up stopping mobilisation after universities, bars, clubs etc were hit.

I guess it's a case of what you can't see won't hurt you. People are happy living with their heads in the sand?

Change has to occur as Russia can't continue on this path, but there's going to be a lot of blood before that happens.
 

Tassie Devil

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True back in the day the were locked away from the outside world most of them non the wiser,now with technology and such I wonder how much it will impact the younger generation, surely after while it will have some impact
Don't forget that Russia has banned things like Twitter, Facebook etc and controls all the media so there is a blanket view being presented to the public.

From my conversations the youth know the truth but are scared shitless to stand up against anything as they know they'll be shipped to fight on the front if they do.

Opposition members are locked up or killed. Those that oppose Putin through social member go missing. Police check phones for what topics you're speaking about.

I can understand why the youth are saying nothing ... for now.

The change will have to come through a military coupe tho that's not necessarily a good thing.
 

The DoggFather

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Footage from this war is incredible. Watch this Russian soldiers head get blown off

I do that daily..... on Call of Duty lol

I hate modern warfare, totally pussified.

Give me the good old days of the Assyrian Empire, swords and shields, hand to hand combat. Not these days with fat pimplely nerd **** sitting in an air conditioned room using drones. Fkn 6 year old Asian nerds can do that.

Fkn pussies.
 

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For a little while now, the Russian soldiers stopped being there to win any land war. They can't. They are there to keep defence forces busy while they force a surrender by terrorising civilians. Which will be easier as it gets colder over there shortly, without power. Putin is simply a terrorist. ISIS also were never winning any land wars but sought to gain their objectives by fear. Russia is just ISIS with more resources.
 

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Tassie Devil

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For a little while now, the Russian soldiers stopped being there to win any land war. They can't. They are there to keep defence forces busy while they force a surrender by terrorising civilians. Which will be easier as it gets colder over there shortly, without power. Putin is simply a terrorist. ISIS also were never winning any land wars but sought to gain their objectives by fear. Russia is just ISIS with more resources.
Spot on with this analysis imo.

More and more stories coming out from the mobilised of growing discontent and anger at the position these new soldiers are being forced into.

Many have to buy their own equipment and food. No training. Terrible living conditions. Lack of military equipment. Really really poor and corrupt military leadership.

The recent shooting at a Russian military base is just the start imo as they've had enough by all reports.

The recent public claims by Russia that ukriane is going to use dirty bombs is extremely worrying. Seems like they're setting the stage for them to claim a false flag to justify their own massive response.

All Russia has is nukes. They've got absolutely nothing else and won't be able to keep up their charade for much longer.
 
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