Russia vs Ukraine

[Nasheed]

Nasheed here.
A month and no reply ?

looks like Putin was correct and everyone would get over it in the west.

I am curious if most people here are on the Ukraine or Russia side?
I’m undecided.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Still going. Unfortunately no end in sight, so not much to keep talking about.

The head spokesperson for Russia talking to the recent UN summit in India said that Russia is working hard to end this war that, in his words, "started when Russia was attacked". The entire conference broke out in laughter.

Other than that, many more civilians dead. Currently they are fighting over a single pointless town. The town holds no strategic value but Russia wants to win it for a moral victory, and Ukraine is using it as a war of attrition.

Meanwhile China is still semi-supporting Russia but hasn't provided any weapons yet. They have massively increased military spending though so the guess is that they're either preparing to aid Russia, or they plan to finally invade Taiwan.

 

[Nasheed]

I’d say they are prepping for Taiwan to stretch out American and allied military resources, which is actually a tactic many people think the USA is trying to do to Russia.

A lot of pro Russia types feel the USA agitated Russia and have been preparing for ten years. Not sure I buy That at all.
BUT, what does annoy me and doesn’t help the cause in my mind (or maybe it does?) is the western media has definitely lied a lot.
Russia does too.
But they don’t need to do in the west.

 

[Bob dog]

Conscription in big numbers

 

[Foxalldayeveryday]

Nasheed here.
A month and no reply ?

looks like Putin was correct and everyone would get over it in the west.

I am curious if most people here are on the Ukraine or Russia side?
I’m undecided.

Russia. No brainer.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Still going.

In the latest update, Finland has officially joined NATO. Keep in mind that one of the reasons Russia invaded Ukraine was out of fear that Ukraine would join NATO putting NATO on Russia's border. Finland is also on Russia's border so mission failed. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is the main reason Finland's petition for membership was sped up.

Russia has responded by saying that this is an assault on Russia, and they will take tactical and strategic countermeasures.

 

[alchemist]

Still going.

In the latest update, Finland has officially joined NATO. Keep in mind that one of the reasons Russia invaded Ukraine was out of fear that Ukraine would join NATO putting NATO on Russia's border. Finland is also on Russia's border so mission failed. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is the main reason Finland's petition for membership was sped up.

Russia has responded by saying that this is an assault on Russia, and they will take tactical and strategic countermeasures.

The Finnish Prime Minister that pushed for NATO membership, Sanna Marin, just got voted out of office, too

And NATO was already on Russia's borders with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania

 

[Psycho Doggie]

The Finnish Prime Minister that pushed for NATO membership, Sanna Marin, just got voted out of office, too

And NATO was already on Russia's borders with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are comparatively minor players in terms of military strength. They aren't nearly as strategically important as Ukraine or Finland either. Russia was very unhappy when they joined NATO, of course, and there has been excellent reasons Finland have stayed out of it until now. Ukraine is a whole other story.

Ranked by military strength:

Russia is 2nd
Ukraine is 15th, just ahead of Australia
Finland is 51st, just after Denmark

Lithuania is 93rd, Latvia is 95th, and Estonia is 105th, just after NZ.

According to https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php

 

[alchemist]

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are comparatively minor players in terms of military strength. They aren't nearly as strategically important as Ukraine or Finland either. Russia was very unhappy when they joined NATO, of course, and there has been excellent reasons Finland have stayed out of it until now. Ukraine is a whole other story.

Ranked by military strength:

Russia is 2nd
Ukraine is 15th, just ahead of Australia
Finland is 51st, just after Denmark

Lithuania is 93rd, Latvia is 95th, and Estonia is 105th, just after NZ.

According to https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php

When it comes to NATO and the projection of military power, only the US counts... Finland is not being accepted because of manpower or equipment but it's proximity to Russia and the American desire to encircle Russia

 

[Bob dog]

How much is a town in Ukraine worth to Russia?

 

[alchemist]

How much is a town in Ukraine worth to Russia?

A lot of these towns in Eastern Ukraine don't really exist anymore... Bakhmut, Avdeevka, Marinka, Rubizhne, Popasnaya, Ugledar, Soledar etc. are just blown up concrete rubble

 

[Psycho Doggie]

When it comes to NATO and the projection of military power, only the US counts... Finland is not being accepted because of manpower or equipment but it's proximity to Russia and the American desire to encircle Russia

Somewhat disagree. It is nice when things are as simple as you've described, but reality is rarely that. Finland and Sweden have steadfastly remained neutral throughout, all the way since WW2, despite all of the things that happened in the Cold war. The invitation has been there, but NATO leadership has mostly understood and respected their reasons for staying neutral. The reason this has changed is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russia has itself to blame.

Russia also has itself to blame for the developments in Ukraine. As much as the US has been brutal in various theatres around the world, and has taken advantage where it should not, and absolutely has blood on its hands, Russia has been many times worse in the areas of the world it has sought to control. Ukraine has been subjected to huge levels of corruption, led by Russian puppets such as Viktor Yanukovych. The level of Russian meddling is what has led to where we are now, the Ukrainian people rejected Russian meddling, in fact they've done so several times, notably when their months of protests against the puppet Yanukovych led to him fleeing to Russia in early 2014. Given the power that the West wields, and its history of misuse of the power, you have to be very bad indeed to make the West look preferable in the eyes of a population of people like the Ukrainians.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

How much is a town in Ukraine worth to Russia?

If you mean Bakhmut, not much at all. It's not a strategic town for either side. But whoever wins the town will win the moral victory. That's the reason they are fighting so hard over it.

 

[Bob dog]

If you mean Bakhmut, not much at all. It's not a strategic town for either side. But whoever wins the town will win the moral victory. That's the reason they are fighting so hard over it.

I still don't understand WTF

 

[alchemist]

Somewhat disagree. It is nice when things are as simple as you've described, but reality is rarely that. Finland and Sweden have steadfastly remained neutral throughout, all the way since WW2, despite all of the things that happened in the Cold war. The invitation has been there, but NATO leadership has mostly understood and respected their reasons for staying neutral. The reason this has changed is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russia has itself to blame.

Russia also has itself to blame for the developments in Ukraine. As much as the US has been brutal in various theatres around the world, and has taken advantage where it should not, and absolutely has blood on its hands, Russia has been many times worse in the areas of the world it has sought to control. Ukraine has been subjected to huge levels of corruption, led by Russian puppets such as Viktor Yanukovych. The level of Russian meddling is what has led to where we are now, the Ukrainian people rejected Russian meddling, in fact they've done so several times, notably when their months of protests against the puppet Yanukovych led to him fleeing to Russia in early 2014. Given the power that the West wields, and its history of misuse of the power, you have to be very bad indeed to make the West look preferable in the eyes of a population of people like the Ukrainians.

Interestingly, you claim I am being too simplistic in my position and then don't respond to what I actually wrote, namely, that from a military perspective, only the US really counts militarily in NATO with much of Europe RIGHTFULLY enjoying the peace dividend following the end of the Cold War and that the US has deliberately looked to politically and militarily encircle Russia beginning in the 1990's when Russia was technically an ally

Finland was neutral during the Cold War for multiple good reasons including the fact that they were allied with the Nazis in WWII and helped, for example, lay siege to Leningrad which killed a million people(?), many of which were civilians that were intentionally starved

Sweden has not been steadfastly neutral and a de facto NATO member

I will concede that the Russians have been brutal internally with their own populations but if you seriously believe that the US has been more humane externally historically from slavery, the wars of expansion against the Native Americans and Mexico, fire bombing cities in Europe and Japan in WWII, being the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons on civilian populations no less, killing millions in South East Asia in the 1960s and 1970s, jumping into bed with Saddam when he fought Iran in the 1980s only to turn on Iraq in the 1990s including a devastating sanctions package that the UN estimated in 1996 as having led to the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children which Madeleine Albright deemed a price worth paying, destroying Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya and Syria etc. since 2000 etc., then good luck to you and your own conscience... Look on a map now, the US is occupying more of Syria stealing their oil than Russia is of Ukraine but no one cares when it's Arabs dying by American hands

Yanukovych was obviously corrupt, but everyone is in Ukraine or was Zelensky such a brilliant actor and comedian to earn himself a $500+ million fortune... And this was something well reported before the war but now that the West got what they wanted (ie. Russia at war in Ukraine), the only policy now is to prolong the war as long as possible to exhaust Russia REGARDLESS OF THE COST TO UKRAINE!

Finally, the war in Ukraine was a civil war before it was a special military operation by Russia meaning that there is no one consensus amongst Ukrainians as to their future, identity, language, economic links, military alliances etc.

 

[alchemist]

If you mean Bakhmut, not much at all. It's not a strategic town for either side. But whoever wins the town will win the moral victory. That's the reason they are fighting so hard over it.

Rubbish

EDIT: Bakhmut is a well fortified town and part of a line of defensive positions from Seversk in the north, along Soledar, Bakhmut and down to Horlivka(?)... Bakhmut is a logistics hub with a lot of road and rail arteries passing through it... If/when Bakhmut falls, there is little natural barriers between Bakhmut and Kramatorsk & Slavyansk (open steppe pretty much) which will be the last battles of Donbass... and it is a war of attrition and so, the Russians are trying to destroy as many Ukrainian soldiers and equipment in Bakhmut as possible... there are commentators referring to Bakhmut as the biggest battle of the 21st Century

 

[2144superman]

Meanwhile the actor cough cough I mean the president of Ukraine is still crying poor and needs more money LOL.

 

[2144superman]

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Rubbish

EDIT: Bakhmut is a well fortified town and part of a line of defensive positions from Seversk in the north, along Soledar, Bakhmut and down to Horlivka(?)... Bakhmut is a logistics hub with a lot of road and rail arteries passing through it... If/when Bakhmut falls, there is little natural barriers between Bakhmut and Kramatorsk & Slavyansk (open steppe pretty much) which will be the last battles of Donbass... and it is a war of attrition and so, the Russians are trying to destroy as many Ukrainian soldiers and equipment in Bakhmut as possible... there are commentators referring to Bakhmut as the biggest battle of the 21st Century

Ukraine war: Why Bakhmut matters for Russia and Ukraine

Tens of thousands have died fighting for a city with little strategic value. Why?

www.bbc.com

Military analysts say Bakhmut has little strategic value. It is not a garrison town or a transport hub or a major centre of population. Before the invasion, there were about 70,000 people living there. The city was best known for its salt and gypsum mines and huge winery. It holds no particular geographic importance. As one Western official put it, Bakhmut is "one small tactical event on a 1,200-kilometre front line"

US Defense Chief: Ukraine's Bakhmut Is Symbolic Rather Than Strategic

Area in eastern Ukraine has been the site of months of heavy fighting

www.voanews.com

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said Monday if Russian troops manage to seize control of the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, that would not represent a decisive shift in the conflict.

"I think it is more of a symbolic value than it is strategic and operational value," Austin told reporters during a visit to Jordan

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yanukovych was obviously corrupt, but everyone is in Ukraine or was Zelensky such a brilliant actor and comedian to earn himself a $500+ million fortune...

President Zelensky Is Not A Billionaire. So How Much Is He Worth?
Matt Durot
Forbes Staff
I write about the world’s richest people and their businesses.
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Apr 20, 2022,08:58am EDT

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky
GETTY IMAGES
Despite social media reports claiming he’s a billionaire, Volodymyr Zelensky doesn’t come close to making Forbes’ global wealth rankings.


A popular internet meme currently making the rounds claims without evidence that Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky is worth $1.4 billion – “more than Will Smith, Chris Rock, and Dave Chapelle combined.” The insinuation is clear. For Zelensky, a former comedian, to have accumulated a fortune of this size, there must be corruption involved. And while this claim has been parroted by its fair share of anonymous Twitter eggs, a number of blue checks have gotten in on the action.

Lee Stranahan, an American host on Kremlin-owned and controlled Radio Sputnik featured in the Oliver Stone documentary “Revealing Ukraine,” tweeted to his nearly 100,000 followers: “Why Is Zelensky a Billionaire?”

Forbes’ answer: he’s not. The Russian invasion has hit Ukraine’s billionaires hard. According to Forbes’ 36th annual World’s Billionaires List, there are only seven left in the country and Zelensky is not one of them (nor is former president and chocolate magnate Petro Poroshenko, who dropped from the rankings this year).

But unlike his predecessor, Zelensky never was a billionaire. He’s currently worth roughly $20 million, based on reporting by Forbes Ukraine. Additional reporting by Forbes US puts that number at less than $30 million.

His main asset: an estimated 25% stake in Kvartal 95, a group of companies that produce humorous shows, which he transferred to his partners after being elected president, though he’ll likely regain his shares after leaving office. Kvartal 95 produced and owns the Servant of the People series, a popular political comedy starring Zelensky as a Ukrainian high school teacher who is elected president. Netflix, which previously streamed the show between 2017 and 2021, snapped up the rights again in March. With estimated revenues of $30 million annually, Forbes Ukraine values Zelensky’s stake at $11 million.