Religious Discussion Thread

Dogna88

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Further to this, man just redefined what a fetus to not mean life. If it is not life or human then it is not murder.
This is what the Nazis did to the Jews. They defined the Jews to be sub human to justify there murder of them and to supress there guilt.
This is also what tribes do in the jungle where they eat each other.
So who originally defined it?
 

Northern Beaches dog

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No no no.

I can have intent to kill someone when defending myself (all things proportionate of course). Thats not murder.

I can not be found guilty of murder for that.
No,

Are you in a situation to kill or be killed as the ONLY 2 option?

If not and you do kill, that is murder.

If yes, that is self defense
 

Hacky McAxe

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The question then is which society is ULTIMATELY right?
If there is no OM, then NEITHER society is ULTIMATELY right.
If neither if right, then it is incoherent to label say what society A does as wrong simply because you do not have a standard (fact) above both societies.
Of course not. Society A would label what society B does as "wrong" and vice versa.

For another example, imagine a race of advanced life forms living in another galaxy. Maybe they see murder as morally right. Are we correct to dictate our morality on them?
 

Hacky McAxe

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My argument the whole time is, if it did not derive from God, then it is a man made concept. Completely subjective.
Neither mans morality is more correct than any others.
This is what subjective morality means.
But we know there's a biological aspect to it. We know through studying evolutionary biology that certain moral values developed biologically.
 

Doogie

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This thread was exciting once. Now its boring.

@Hacky McAxe - would I get banned if I started bringing porn tropes into a religious thread? Just asking 8-)
 

Northern Beaches dog

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Of course not. Society A would label what society B does as "wrong" and vice versa.

For another example, imagine a race of advanced life forms living in another galaxy. Maybe they see murder as morally right. Are we correct to dictate our morality on them?
That is the point.
You cannot label it to be wrong.
How can something be BOTH right and wrong at the very same time?
That literally is violating the law of non contradiction.
Society A can ONLY say they do not LIKE what society B does and vice a verse. You cannot say it is wrong.
 

Northern Beaches dog

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But we know there's a biological aspect to it. We know through studying evolutionary biology that certain moral values developed biologically.
You are not talking about morality, you are talking about survival and flourishing the whole time when you talk about biology.
Morality is completely different.
 

Hacky McAxe

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No,

Are you in a situation to kill or be killed as the ONLY 2 option?

If not and you do kill, that is murder.

If yes, that is self defense
It's rarely black and white. Take a police officer as an example. The perpetrator has a gun. He shoots to save his own life. Turns out to be a toy gun. Or something nothing like a gun.

Maybe it was a gun. Maybe his life wasn't at risk and he could have gotten away with shooting the perp in the arm.
 

Hacky McAxe

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You are not talking about morality, you are talking about survival and flourishing the whole time when you talk about biology.
Morality is completely different.
Except its not entirely. If it's beneficial to the survival of the species to not kill. So the ones who develop an instinct to not kill are the ones who survive. If that is where "do not murder" comes from, is that not morality?
 
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