News 'People only see the first-grade results': Dogs director says club in strong position

[hayes]

How much do they need for change? Is it 50%?

I think 75%

 

[TwinTurbo]

So Teddy, can you confirm that M&J, Ultimate Security, Ladbrokes or Sydney Tools were ‘cashed up’ and ready to go as major sponsor of the Bulldogs this year and one of them is dirty they weren’t afforded the opportunity? Post C-19 I’d bet the majority of those businesses are GLAD they don’t have that cost monkey on their back. Oh, but C-19 is an ‘excuse’ isn’t it... Also the Raiders have worked with the parent company of Canberra Milk for 25+ years - and had various brands on their jersey in that time too - Milk, Bega Cheese, Dare Iced Coffee etc. We have NOT worked with any of our sponsors for that length of time nor do they have multiple brands giving flexibility on both sides. It’s just not as cut and dried as you’re making it out to be and frankly I think a poor comparison.

I can confirm that at least 3 of the sponsors/advertisers were asked if they wanted to upgrade their deals following the Rashays renege. One of them upgraded their deal by ~50% but couldn't (in the current climate) justify going to front of jersey/major sponsor. I'd be very surprised if all sponsors/advertisers weren't offered the same opportunity.

Go Dogs

 

[DinkumDog]

I can confirm that at least 3 of the sponsors/advertisers were asked if they wanted to upgrade their deals following the Rashays renege. One of them upgraded their deal by ~50% but couldn't (in the current climate) justify going to front of jersey/major sponsor. I'd be very surprised if all sponsors/advertisers weren't offered the same opportunity.

Go Dogs

That fits Twin, thanks.
The thing is, it’s obvious right?
Before looking for new sponsors see if you can get an upgrade from existing sponsors... But the club allegedly has shat in their own nest? I don’t buy it...

 

[Spoonman84]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it. Many TK members have it 20/20. The Pay extension decision was made in May 2019 - no-one at the time knew how 2019 let alone 2020 would play out. It was obvious at the time that they were giving him an opportunity to improve the results whilst we got to the end of cap dramas. At the time I think a perfectly reasonable decision. When it became obvious after the C-19 break (4 weeks after the competition resumed) that Pay was not going to be able to bring the results needed - they acted.

What lack of pro-activity? Because there's no running commentary? There's a big difference in 'moving on' players who other clubs still might want and being stuck with the likes of some of our squad who it likely will be proven don't end up anywhere. Holland announced his retirement because he knows he'll end up playing park footy. Even Foz would've unlikely got a gig anywhere if it wasn't for the Despot riding to his rescue. Out of the 8 released last week, how many will sign for other NRL clubs and play first grade again?

Free pass? From who? Of course all boards should be accountable. My argument has always been consistent. It is too early to judge their work. If this time next year there are not clear signs of improvement, by all means make changes in 2022. And no, that's not simply kicking the can down the road - it is allowing a mandated and time-lined plan to be delivered. Clearly some don't agree and that's fine, but doesn't make it OK to disrupt either.

You can say hindsight is a wonderful everytime there is a mistake but it doesn’t change the fact it was a mistake. There were plenty of people with the opinion at the time that Pay wasn’t the man and those opinions were vindicated. The fact that the board couldn’t see that doesn’t reflect well on them. They choose to kick the can down the road and it’s been a total failure. They acted after Pay has totally driven the clubs on field program into the ground which is my point about being proactive. Why did it take them to that point where it obvious to everyone that he needed to go?

I’m talking about proactivity with the whole cap issue. If the Titans can do it why did we have so much trouble moving players on. They showed it can be done.

It doesn’t really bother me if there’s EGM and the 3 get turfed as long as someone better takes their place. The current board just hasn’t done enough and I’m all for people putting their feet to fire and seeing what they can do.

 

[Alexander the Great]

I can confirm that at least 3 of the sponsors/advertisers were asked if they wanted to upgrade their deals following the Rashays renege. One of them upgraded their deal by ~50% but couldn't (in the current climate) justify going to front of jersey/major sponsor. I'd be very surprised if all sponsors/advertisers weren't offered the same opportunity.

Go Dogs

Can you confirm MJ chickens were asked?Our longest sponsor at the club....

 

[DinkumDog]

You can say hindsight is a wonderful everytime there is a mistake but it doesn’t change the fact it was a mistake. There were plenty of people with the opinion at the time that Pay wasn’t the man and those opinions were vindicated. The fact that the board couldn’t see that doesn’t reflect well on them. They choose to kick the can down the road and it’s been a total failure. They acted after Pay has totally driven the clubs on field program into the ground which is my point about being proactive. Why did it take them to that point where it obvious to everyone that he needed to go?

Yes, it is hindsight. The goal at the time was simply to get us to the end of the cap crisis. We had a squad with several reserve graders. You're honestly going to suggest that bringing in Holbrook or whoever would've radically altered the course? You simply can't prove that - no-one can. If it was such a 'mistake' - where were the dissenting voices within the club? They believed they were making the right decision at the time and I agree.

I’m talking about proactivity with the whole cap issue. If the Titans can do it why did we have so much trouble moving players on. They showed it can be done.

Thought I explained that. The Titans had some players other clubs actually wanted. Name me who out of the 8 we released last week will play NRL first grade again (bar Foran given his lifeline from the Despot)?

It doesn’t really bother me if there’s EGM and the 3 get turfed as long as someone better takes their place. The current board just hasn’t done enough and I’m all for people putting their feet to fire and seeing what they can do.

Nor do I care regarding the individuals and never have. All the nonsense talk of being an 'Anderson sympathiser' and what-not. I've only ever said - and maintain - let them finish their work. We're starting to see things just as it was stated in 2018 - Mounties, Laundy's (though some are questioning this), junior programs re-established (Covid did disrupt that, despite some calling it an 'excuse'), new coaching team, squad still with at least 5 spots left for 2021. To change that now would achieve what exactly? And if the supposed 'talent' lined up is better - GREAT - how about they SHOW THEIR FACES and TELL US THEIR PLAN. So far, apart from a petition...crickets...

 

[Spoonman84]

Yes, it is hindsight. The goal at the time was simply to get us to the end of the cap crisis. We had a squad with several reserve graders. You're honestly going to suggest that bringing in Holbrook or whoever would've radically altered the course? You simply can't prove that - no-one can. If it was such a 'mistake' - where were the dissenting voices within the club? They believed they were making the right decision at the time and I agree.

Thought I explained that. The Titans had some players other clubs actually wanted. Name me who out of the 8 we released last week will play NRL first grade again (bar Foran given his lifeline from the Despot)?

Nor do I care regarding the individuals and never have. All the nonsense talk of being an 'Anderson sympathiser' and what-not. I've only ever said - and maintain - let them finish their work. We're starting to see things just as it was stated in 2018 - Mounties, Laundy's (though some are questioning this), junior programs re-established (Covid did disrupt that, despite some calling it an 'excuse'), new coaching team, squad still with at least 5 spots left for 2021. To change that now would achieve what exactly? And if the supposed 'talent' lined up is better - GREAT - how about they SHOW THEIR FACES and TELL US THEIR PLAN. So far, apart from a petition...crickets...

So we can just write off the previous boards cap fiasco too and put it down to hindsight too? You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there would have been a big advantage to pulling the trigger on Pay in 2019 we would be one season ahead of where we are now. The new coach would have had a full off season and season to implement their systems and they would have been shaping the roster too. You can’t seriously suggest that re-signing Pay for a year was a good thing?

Hang on what clubs wanted Shannon Boyd or Bryce Cartwright? They played hard ball with them and they asked for a release. That’s what I’m referring too.

If Mounties, a sponser and juniors are the only things they have to show for 3 years work it’s not much. They literally got us up to standard with the rest of the NRL. It’s like praising the post man for delivering the mail.

 

[MichaelM]

There are some great definitions of the the word Opportunist!!

"Opportunists are people who see a chance to gain some advantage from a situation, often at the expense of ethics or morals. An opportunist seizes every opportunity to improve things for themselves".

Unfortunately there are plenty of Opportunists sitting on Boards or manoeuvring for their chance.

I will definitely consider voting for new candidates with genuine credentials at the next scheduled election, however the thing I would like to see happen between now and then is for a thorough (independent) review of our current board members performance and capability. We need commitment to a skills based board with a fresh approach that can deliver both specialist and behavioural expertise.

If done properly that will deliver 3-4 new 'next generation' board members and put the right kind of pressure on the remaining incumbents to step up and genuinely work on their own strengths and weaknesses.

Good blokes, business owners that do not follow proper governance or past players that haven't successfully run a sizeable operation need not apply.

 

[DinkumDog]

So we can just write off the previous boards cap fiasco too and put it down to hindsight too? You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there would have been a big advantage to pulling the trigger on Pay in 2019 we would be one season ahead of where we are now. The new coach would have had a full off season and season to implement their systems and they would have been shaping the roster too. You can’t seriously suggest that re-signing Pay for a year was a good thing?

Hang on what clubs wanted Shannon Boyd or Bryce Cartwright? They played hard ball with them and they asked for a release. That’s what I’m referring too.

If Mounties, a sponser and juniors are the only things they have to show for 3 years work it’s not much. They literally got us up to standard with the rest of the NRL. It’s like praising the post man for delivering the mail.

No. Previous fiasco wasn’t hindsight, it was betting the farm with a loan shark. It was gross mis-management. And we spent 3 years in purgatory because of it.

I didn’t say re-signing Pay specifically was the right choice. I said I understood the mentality behind the decision and don’t bag them for it. A new coach would’ve been stuck with the same roster with many reserve graders. I don’t buy that we would’ve been substantially better in 2020 with a different coach, no. Georgallis proved that - even if he wasn’t NRL standard - neither were several of our squad.

Who am I praising? I’ll repeat myself again. LET THE JOB BE FINISHED before attempting to tear things apart again.

Looks like we won’t agree and that’s cool - I’ve enjoyed the debate. Take it easy.

 

[TwinTurbo]

So we can just write off the previous boards cap fiasco too and put it down to hindsight too? You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there would have been a big advantage to pulling the trigger on Pay in 2019 we would be one season ahead of where we are now. The new coach would have had a full off season and season to implement their systems and they would have been shaping the roster too. You can’t seriously suggest that re-signing Pay for a year was a good thing?

Hang on what clubs wanted Shannon Boyd or Bryce Cartwright? They played hard ball with them and they asked for a release. That’s what I’m referring too.

If Mounties, a sponser and juniors are the only things they have to show for 3 years work it’s not much. They literally got us up to standard with the rest of the NRL. It’s like praising the post man for delivering the mail.

The fact is year before Macguire looked at "the books" and walked away, no other proven coach even bothered applying. That is the real problem with your assumption (that "a new coach would have had a full off season and season to implement their systems and they would have been shaping the roster"). What decent coach would have applied? I don't know, but I suspect the result would have been the same, why would anyone go through a year of obvious pain, having their reputation crushed. Much smarter to wait a year until Des's invoked salary cap straight jacket was off.

Would you have been happy with Barrett back then? I most certainly would have rubbished any such thought, his stocks have risen in the last year due solely to this year at Penrith, whether that is a good sign or not is yet to be determined.

Go Dogs

 

[Howie B]

I can confirm that at least 3 of the sponsors/advertisers were asked if they wanted to upgrade their deals following the Rashays renege. One of them upgraded their deal by ~50% but couldn't (in the current climate) justify going to front of jersey/major sponsor. I'd be very surprised if all sponsors/advertisers weren't offered the same opportunity.

Go Dogs

After Rashays pulled out we were entering a Pandemic and we had just had 2 of our players go balls deep in a couple of schoolgirls. I dont know in what world people think we were going to get a major sponsor at that time.

$500k may sound cheap but its post Covid. That may be the going rate for the next few years. Does anyone know what Canberra Milk paid to be the major sponsor of the raiders ??

We dont have a great brand at the moment. I doubt we will get many free to air games next year. That drives the sponsorship value down as well. We havent made the finals since 2016 and are long odds to make it next year.

I am just not sure what people expect in terms of sponsors at the moment.

 

[Spoonman84]

The fact is year before Macguire looked at "the books" and walked away, no other proven coach even bothered applying. That is the real problem with your assumption (that "a new coach would have had a full off season and season to implement their systems and they would have been shaping the roster"). What decent coach would have applied? I don't know, but I suspect the result would have been the same, why would anyone go through a year of obvious pain, having their reputation crushed. Much smarter to wait a year until Des's invoked salary cap straight jacket was off.

Would you have been happy with Barrett back then? I most certainly would have rubbished any such thought, his stocks have risen in the last year due solely to this year at Penrith, whether that is a good sign or not is yet to be determined.

Go Dogs

McGuire looked at the books prior to Pays appointment in 2018 and a new coach would have started in 2020 that’s a big difference. I don’t really believe that story about McGuire anyway because he must have forgotten to ask to see the Tigers books considering the state of their roster and cap. There were plenty of coaching options last year and when there’s only 16 jobs in the world we would have a gotten a decent coach.

Barrett wouldn’t have been appointed if Pay got punted in 2019 there were plenty more better options available at the time. Another reason they should have pulled the trigger then.

 

[TwinTurbo]

McGuire looked at the books prior to Pays appointment in 2018 and a new coach would have started in 2020 that’s a big difference. I don’t really believe that story about McGuire anyway because he must have forgotten to ask to see the Tigers books considering the state of their roster and cap.

You should believe the story about Macguire because it is 100% fact. He has talked about it quite freely on a couple of occasions, one when I was in attendance.

As for comparison to the Tiggers, there is light at the end of their tunnel after 1 year (of Macguire) whereas we had no light visible for 3 years. The fact that Macguire took that choice simply proves how deep in the shit we were. No matter how bad the Tigger situation is, and it's bad, plainly ours was worse.

There were plenty of coaching options last year and when there’s only 16 jobs in the world we would have a gotten a decent coach.

Who exactly? I can only think of one, being Holbrook, and who knows the story there.

Barrett wouldn’t have been appointed if Pay got punted in 2019 there were plenty more better options available at the time. Another reason they should have pulled the trigger then.

And if they pulled the trigger who suitable would have applied? That's 2 years of cap purgatory. Not even Holbrook then as he was still contracted to StHelens.

Go Dogs

 

[Spoonman84]

You should believe the story about Macguire because it is 100% fact. He has talked about it quite freely on a couple of occasions, one when I was in attendance.

As for comparison to the Tiggers, there is light at the end of their tunnel after 1 year (of Macguire) whereas we had no light visible for 3 years. The fact that Macguire took that choice simply proves how deep in the shit we were. No matter how bad the Tigger situation is, and it's bad, plainly ours was worse.

Who exactly? I can only think of one, being Holbrook, and who knows the story there.

And if they pulled the trigger who suitable would have applied? That's 2 years of cap purgatory. Not even Holbrook then as he was still contracted to StHelens.

Go Dogs

Hang on a minute so you're saying its ok for he incoming coach to only have to wait 1 year for light at the end of the tunnel which is what the incoming Bulldogs coach would have had if the started in 2020? make your mind up.

Adam O'Brien and Holbrook are better options then Barrett.

That St Helens contract didn't stop Holbrook going to the Titans. You're kidding yourself if you think no one would have applied.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Hang on a minute so you're saying its ok for he incoming coach to only have to wait 1 year for light at the end of the tunnel which is what the incoming Bulldogs coach would have had if the started in 2020? make your mind up.

I think you are the one who needs to get your chronology checked. Macguire walked away from facing 3 years of purgatory with us and you were comparing it with 1 year of far less at the Tiggers.

Adam O'Brien and Holbrook are better options then Barrett.

Adam O'Brien has done nothing at the Knoughts, scrapped in, when with that roster they should be top 4. Holbrook refer below.

That St Helens contract didn't stop Holbrook going to the Titans. You're kidding yourself if you think no one would have applied.

You were talking about 2019, Titans is 2020, you're out by a year.

Go Dogs

 

[Tassie Devil]

Hi TD,

A number of years ago, I emailed Raelene Castle (when she was Bulldogs CEO) complaining about player retention issues - in particular losing Dale Finucane to Melbourne. I also raised with her that she had been quoting in the media some BS statistic from Hasler about how after round 15 Bulldogs had scored 3rd most tries. It was all a deception from Hasler to mask how our attack had gone crap and Raelene had been tricked by it. I did a spreadsheet and in the weeks after a round 16 flogging by the Cowboys, our points scored absolutely nosedived.

I asked her to call me to discuss and she did. I was at work and I took the call in a spare office. We talked for about half an hour about a number of Bulldogs related matters including about Finucane and she said we lost him due to salary cap pressures and I shouldn't worry because we had an exciting signing on the way - that was Richie Kennar (yes, she actually told me that). She was also very interested in the point I was making about the attacking statistics and asked me to send the spreadsheet, which I subsequently did.

About 2 months later, a guy I knew came all the way over from New Zealand with his wife to see Dogs v Cronulla at Belmore. I emailed Raelene, told her the guy's story (he had never seen Bulldogs play live) and gave her the seat numbers (near mine) and being a Kiwi too, she came down before the game and met us all.

It's all done for the purposes of PR.

Missed this. Sorry.

Well, that's cool that they reply to fans about stuff. I never would've expected it to happen.

So what you're saying is Nasheed might have a direct link to the Bulldog HQ?

 

[Dogtime]

Dunn is useless has a terrible track record with his work at the Bunnies and the decision to re-sign Pay last year has proven to be a very bad one. Tell me what’s so good about this focus on development? They haven’t turned us into some factory for producing good talent all they have done is the bare minimum to get us up to standard with any regular NRL club. Everything this board does is just average.

Why focus on development you say? How are Penrith achieving their results? Development plus 1 astute signing. Do you believe development happens in 1 year? It takes AT LEAST 3 to 5 years. How many times have you heard a media scribe say...such and such club are in a rebuild?
How easy has it been to spot up and coming talent this year with no NSW or QRL Cup or 3rd grade and goodness knows about lower grades being played due to covid so that talent scouts can spot talent?
Its easy to fuck up your roster if you keep to the cap and ignore development.
So do you want to blame our Board for covid? Or for playing to the cap rules?
Lets not lose sight of the fact that this Board inherited a total cap mismanagement thanks to the previous administration. Now they are being thrown out by niff nuffs who think you can fix a broken footy club in 3 years.

 

[Spoonman84]

Why focus on development you say? How are Penrith achieving their results? Development plus 1 astute signing. Do you believe development happens in 1 year? It takes AT LEAST 3 to 5 years. How many times have you heard a media scribe say...such and such club are in a rebuild?
How easy has it been to spot up and coming talent this year with no NSW or QRL Cup or 3rd grade and goodness knows about lower grades being played due to covid so that talent scouts can spot talent?
Its easy to fuck up your roster if you keep to the cap and ignore development.
So do you want to blame our Board for covid? Or for playing to the cap rules?
Lets not lose sight of the fact that this Board inherited a total cap mismanagement thanks to the previous administration. Now they are being thrown out by niff nuffs who think you can fix a broken footy club in 3 years.

Can you comprehend what I said? I didn’t say we shouldn’t be focusing on junior development so I’m not even sure how you took that out of my post. What I said was the club isn’t on the forefront of junior development at all and there’s people like you carrying on like we have built this factory for producing talent when it’s simply not true.

They have just done the bare minimum to get the juniors up to NRL standard again. There’s so much more work for them to do if they want to use development as the main stream of recruiting players. Letting go of people like Mark Hughes doesn’t help our situation either. I actually think Covid could have played into our hands if we did it properly as we have the opportunity to fast track juniors with our weak roster but so far there’s been no head hunting of gun juniors.

 

[Gabe]

I want to see results, or at a bear minimum progress.

Excuses, media spin seriously is all you ever hear from this mob.

Lol... The club is in a better position than it was! please