Penalty analysis

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Moronic Musings

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Hey all, I picked up on something today when flicking through the individual match stats of Bulldogs games in the first 8 rounds of the season. The following is a breakdown of the penalty counts per game in our matches:

Round 1 - Manly win the penalty count 11-9
Round 2 - 8-8 between Penrith and the Bulldogs
Round 3 - Bulldogs win the penalty count 8-6
Round 4 - Souths win the penalty count 6-4
Round 5 - Raiders win the penalty count 9-7
Round 6 - Storm win the penalty count 7-3
Round 7 - Warriors win the penalty count 8-5
Round 8 - Titans win the penalty count 6-3

The Dogs have only won 1 penalty count all season. I compared the penalties received for and against of each of the teams we versed in the previous round (round 7) to quickly gauge what the penalties received and conceded were in matches not against the Bulldogs.

Manly - Won the penalty count 8-7
Penrith - Lost the penalty count 8-6
Eels - Lost the penalty count 8-7
Souths - Won the penalty count 8-4
Raiders - Won the penalty count 12-6
Storm - Lost the penalty count 9-5
Warriors - Lost the penalty count 11-10 (in round 6, we versed them in round 7)
Titans - Lost the penalty count 7-5

We have lost 6 penalty counts this season, drawn 1, and won 1. The teams we have versed have lost 5 of their penalty counts in round 7, winning 3. I know this is an extremely small sample size, but I am way too tired to go back another couple of rounds for a bigger sample size.

I made the following points:
  1. The Bulldogs have conceded 61 penalties this season, whilst only managing to receive 47 penalties.
  2. Of the 6 teams that beat us in the penalty counts, only 3 of those teams won the penalty count the weak before.
  3. The total amount of all Bulldogs penalties received amounts to less that the total amount of penalties received for teams on the losing end of the penalty counts in round 7.
  4. The Bulldogs have only received 8 or more than 8 penalties three times in a game all season, whilst round 7 alone had Manly, Roosters, Souths, Tigers, Warriors, Broncos, Raiders all receive 8 penalties or more.

I only mentioned these things to point out the glaring difference in penalties RECEIVED between the Dogs and other teams. Talking about some of the ridiculous penalties CONCEDED opens up an entirely different can of worms.

Imo, there are 2 possible explanations:

  1. Greg Alexander pointed out in the Raiders game today that the Raiders average in the vicinity of 11 penalties RECEIVED per game. He hypothesised that this could be a result of the direct and aggressive nature of the Raiders forwards, and their desire to play the ball quickly when on the ground. This has resulted in a lot of discretionary penalties being given to them for ruck infringements. Although the Dogs forward pack has several great players, there are only 2 players that constantly seek out a quick play the ball - Kasiano and Klemmer (and Eastwood to an extent). Josh Morris and Sammy Perrett in the backline are also great at getting quick play the balls. In contrast, despite their undoubted abilities in other aspects, players like Tolman, Graham, T-Rex (main culprit), Jackson and Browne simply either do not run directly and hard enough ala the Raiders players (like T-Rex, Tolman, Graham). Whilst I love these players and acknowledge their abilities (Graham is in my top 3 front rowers in the game), direct running in the mould of Vaughan and Boyd is not their strong suit. The sideline commentator also mentioned that the new era of front rowers in the current environment with lessened interchanges should seek to play the ball quickly, running hard and direct, and always look for an offload to keep the defence backtracking. This is to increase the fatigue of opposition forwards. We as a team fail to push opposing forward packs back through direct running, and as such, fail to benefit from many discretionary penalties in the ruck. The new era of front rowers is upon us - hard and straight, which is ironically a throwback in itself.
  2. The refs are cockheads, have absolutely no idea what constitutes a penalty and/or the referees are influenced by their hatred for the Bulldogs.
Both explanations are equally valid, and I am right in the middle of both possible answers to the problem haha.

Is our lack of direct, hard running forwards (except Kas and Klem) hurting our ability to receive discretionary penalties?

For the record, I find this topic incredibly important due to the significance of penalties on the flow of a game, with the team winning the penalty count often being the one's to win the game.
 

Moronic Musings

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TL;DR:

Are penalties RECEIVED influenced by our lack of direct/hard running (as mentioned in the Raiders game), or are we unfairly targeted by refs?
 

w00t

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Think its a combination of both.

You have to make the ref think you deserve a penalty and make it look like there's an infringement. If we consistently play so poorly then there's even less reason for a biased ref to give you a penalty, forcing the opposition to backpedal is when it's easier for them to make mistakes
 

CrittaMagic69

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Cowboys receive the least penalties?
 

Bad Billy

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You can argue that we cause the penalties against with poor discipline. But how do we consistently receive less penalties the the opposition ?
Even when the other team has a poor record. When they face the dogs, all of a sudden they "become disciplined"?
 

Chris Harding

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You're partly right when you mention our inability to play the ball quickly. Put some of that down to referees who allow opponents to lie all over us, while quickly penalising the Dogs for similar infringements. Watching games, I am often at a loss to tell the difference between what we are penalised for, and what the opposition is allowed to get away with.

Maybe we should try the Greg Inglis method of milking penalties: lie on the ground after every infringement in the "I may never play football again" mode, and wait for the ref to reward us.
 

Mr Invisible

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When the referees can't even get simple things right in the game because they clearly don't know the rules, any thought process behind the giving of penalties goes straight out the window.

I.E Refs blow penalties knowing it will advantage/improve field position of sides they want to win. There is no way a ref does NOT have a bias towards one or another side.
 

Nano

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All teams even bad ones are perfectly disciplined against us obviously also when we are winning they are still perfectly disciplined...

Referees this year have proven they are bias against us with what they dish up week in and out against us.
 
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Dognacious

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I reckon we are often unfairly over penalised. Not sure why its happening, but every match there are at least a few penalties that i wonder "wtf was that penalty for?". Hows Bird when he has the ball, if a player puts his hands on the ball at all he just lets it go. Got a penalty for a "strip" doing it yesterday. Hes a sneaky little bastard that one.
 

Boxer

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teams are allowed to lie all over us but if we do it we are penalised .
Titans almost fell asleep on our players and not one penalty.
Plus the amount of times they are offside and they get away with it.
 

Mozzie

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I do agree that teams like the Raiders and the Broncos who try to play the ball quickly flipping around like a fish out of water as soon as the are touched it influences the Refs to give penalties for holding to long.
 

Bbyss

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I haven't seen a obstruction penalty in any game with out a try been scored and we were penalised against gc for that.....
Fck talk about gc slowing the play the ball i agree.....
 

Raikkonen

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Did anyone watch Broncos vs Souths?

Broncos got all the 50/50 calls, and Souths got none.

The in-form teams seems to influence the refs at times.

You could say the exception to this has been the Roosters over the past few years, but they deliberately concede penalties in their red zone.
 

DT

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You're partly right when you mention our inability to play the ball quickly. Put some of that down to referees who allow opponents to lie all over us, while quickly penalising the Dogs for similar infringements. Watching games, I am often at a loss to tell the difference between what we are penalised for, and what the opposition is allowed to get away with.

Maybe we should try the Greg Inglis method of milking penalties: lie on the ground after every infringement in the "I may never play football again" mode, and wait for the ref to reward us.
Inglis is a parasite the way he continually forgets that in this game he is also allowed to be tackled...one of the biggest whingers in the game but the refs love him and whatever Greg says Greg gets
 

khan

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Hey all, I picked up on something today when flicking through the individual match stats of Bulldogs games in the first 8 rounds of the season. The following is a breakdown of the penalty counts per game in our matches:

Round 1 - Manly win the penalty count 11-9
Round 2 - 8-8 between Penrith and the Bulldogs
Round 3 - Bulldogs win the penalty count 8-6
Round 4 - Souths win the penalty count 6-4
Round 5 - Raiders win the penalty count 9-7
Round 6 - Storm win the penalty count 7-3
Round 7 - Warriors win the penalty count 8-5
Round 8 - Titans win the penalty count 6-3

The Dogs have only won 1 penalty count all season. I compared the penalties received for and against of each of the teams we versed in the previous round (round 7) to quickly gauge what the penalties received and conceded were in matches not against the Bulldogs.

Manly - Won the penalty count 8-7
Penrith - Lost the penalty count 8-6
Eels - Lost the penalty count 8-7
Souths - Won the penalty count 8-4
Raiders - Won the penalty count 12-6
Storm - Lost the penalty count 9-5
Warriors - Lost the penalty count 11-10 (in round 6, we versed them in round 7)
Titans - Lost the penalty count 7-5

We have lost 6 penalty counts this season, drawn 1, and won 1. The teams we have versed have lost 5 of their penalty counts in round 7, winning 3. I know this is an extremely small sample size, but I am way too tired to go back another couple of rounds for a bigger sample size.

I made the following points:
  1. The Bulldogs have conceded 61 penalties this season, whilst only managing to receive 47 penalties.
  2. Of the 6 teams that beat us in the penalty counts, only 3 of those teams won the penalty count the weak before.
  3. The total amount of all Bulldogs penalties received amounts to less that the total amount of penalties received for teams on the losing end of the penalty counts in round 7.
  4. The Bulldogs have only received 8 or more than 8 penalties three times in a game all season, whilst round 7 alone had Manly, Roosters, Souths, Tigers, Warriors, Broncos, Raiders all receive 8 penalties or more.

I only mentioned these things to point out the glaring difference in penalties RECEIVED between the Dogs and other teams. Talking about some of the ridiculous penalties CONCEDED opens up an entirely different can of worms.

Imo, there are 2 possible explanations:

  1. Greg Alexander pointed out in the Raiders game today that the Raiders average in the vicinity of 11 penalties RECEIVED per game. He hypothesised that this could be a result of the direct and aggressive nature of the Raiders forwards, and their desire to play the ball quickly when on the ground. This has resulted in a lot of discretionary penalties being given to them for ruck infringements. Although the Dogs forward pack has several great players, there are only 2 players that constantly seek out a quick play the ball - Kasiano and Klemmer (and Eastwood to an extent). Josh Morris and Sammy Perrett in the backline are also great at getting quick play the balls. In contrast, despite their undoubted abilities in other aspects, players like Tolman, Graham, T-Rex (main culprit), Jackson and Browne simply either do not run directly and hard enough ala the Raiders players (like T-Rex, Tolman, Graham). Whilst I love these players and acknowledge their abilities (Graham is in my top 3 front rowers in the game), direct running in the mould of Vaughan and Boyd is not their strong suit. The sideline commentator also mentioned that the new era of front rowers in the current environment with lessened interchanges should seek to play the ball quickly, running hard and direct, and always look for an offload to keep the defence backtracking. This is to increase the fatigue of opposition forwards. We as a team fail to push opposing forward packs back through direct running, and as such, fail to benefit from many discretionary penalties in the ruck. The new era of front rowers is upon us - hard and straight, which is ironically a throwback in itself.
  2. The refs are cockheads, have absolutely no idea what constitutes a penalty and/or the referees are influenced by their hatred for the Bulldogs.
Both explanations are equally valid, and I am right in the middle of both possible answers to the problem haha.

Is our lack of direct, hard running forwards (except Kas and Klem) hurting our ability to receive discretionary penalties?

For the record, I find this topic incredibly important due to the significance of penalties on the flow of a game, with the team winning the penalty count often being the one's to win the game.
Fuk your bored haha... but good shit handy to know, doesn't suprise
 

habibsta

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Hey all, I picked up on something today when flicking through the individual match stats of Bulldogs games in the first 8 rounds of the season. The following is a breakdown of the penalty counts per game in our matches:

Round 1 - Manly win the penalty count 11-9
Round 2 - 8-8 between Penrith and the Bulldogs
Round 3 - Bulldogs win the penalty count 8-6
Round 4 - Souths win the penalty count 6-4
Round 5 - Raiders win the penalty count 9-7
Round 6 - Storm win the penalty count 7-3
Round 7 - Warriors win the penalty count 8-5
Round 8 - Titans win the penalty count 6-3

The Dogs have only won 1 penalty count all season. I compared the penalties received for and against of each of the teams we versed in the previous round (round 7) to quickly gauge what the penalties received and conceded were in matches not against the Bulldogs.

Manly - Won the penalty count 8-7
Penrith - Lost the penalty count 8-6
Eels - Lost the penalty count 8-7
Souths - Won the penalty count 8-4
Raiders - Won the penalty count 12-6
Storm - Lost the penalty count 9-5
Warriors - Lost the penalty count 11-10 (in round 6, we versed them in round 7)
Titans - Lost the penalty count 7-5

We have lost 6 penalty counts this season, drawn 1, and won 1. The teams we have versed have lost 5 of their penalty counts in round 7, winning 3. I know this is an extremely small sample size, but I am way too tired to go back another couple of rounds for a bigger sample size.

I made the following points:
  1. The Bulldogs have conceded 61 penalties this season, whilst only managing to receive 47 penalties.
  2. Of the 6 teams that beat us in the penalty counts, only 3 of those teams won the penalty count the weak before.
  3. The total amount of all Bulldogs penalties received amounts to less that the total amount of penalties received for teams on the losing end of the penalty counts in round 7.
  4. The Bulldogs have only received 8 or more than 8 penalties three times in a game all season, whilst round 7 alone had Manly, Roosters, Souths, Tigers, Warriors, Broncos, Raiders all receive 8 penalties or more.

I only mentioned these things to point out the glaring difference in penalties RECEIVED between the Dogs and other teams. Talking about some of the ridiculous penalties CONCEDED opens up an entirely different can of worms.

Imo, there are 2 possible explanations:

  1. Greg Alexander pointed out in the Raiders game today that the Raiders average in the vicinity of 11 penalties RECEIVED per game. He hypothesised that this could be a result of the direct and aggressive nature of the Raiders forwards, and their desire to play the ball quickly when on the ground. This has resulted in a lot of discretionary penalties being given to them for ruck infringements. Although the Dogs forward pack has several great players, there are only 2 players that constantly seek out a quick play the ball - Kasiano and Klemmer (and Eastwood to an extent). Josh Morris and Sammy Perrett in the backline are also great at getting quick play the balls. In contrast, despite their undoubted abilities in other aspects, players like Tolman, Graham, T-Rex (main culprit), Jackson and Browne simply either do not run directly and hard enough ala the Raiders players (like T-Rex, Tolman, Graham). Whilst I love these players and acknowledge their abilities (Graham is in my top 3 front rowers in the game), direct running in the mould of Vaughan and Boyd is not their strong suit. The sideline commentator also mentioned that the new era of front rowers in the current environment with lessened interchanges should seek to play the ball quickly, running hard and direct, and always look for an offload to keep the defence backtracking. This is to increase the fatigue of opposition forwards. We as a team fail to push opposing forward packs back through direct running, and as such, fail to benefit from many discretionary penalties in the ruck. The new era of front rowers is upon us - hard and straight, which is ironically a throwback in itself.
  2. The refs are cockheads, have absolutely no idea what constitutes a penalty and/or the referees are influenced by their hatred for the Bulldogs.
Both explanations are equally valid, and I am right in the middle of both possible answers to the problem haha.

Is our lack of direct, hard running forwards (except Kas and Klem) hurting our ability to receive discretionary penalties?

For the record, I find this topic incredibly important due to the significance of penalties on the flow of a game, with the team winning the penalty count often being the one's to win the game.
Great article the only one thing that I say is incorrect is Klemmer being a quick play the ball although a star player Klemmer always struggles in the tackle allowing other teams defensive line to set he is then always put on his back and has to flip over he would have the slowest play the ball possibly in the NRL. I was going to write a thread about it every time he does an awesome charge watch how he continues to struggle defensive line sets and he is flipped on his back. The raiders are great at this as they play it like touch footy they charge take the hit and almost try to play in the ball in the same motion
 

dogluva

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Did anyone watch Broncos vs Souths?

Broncos got all the 50/50 calls, and Souths got none.

The in-form teams seems to influence the refs at times.

You could say the exception to this has been the Roosters over the past few years, but they deliberately concede penalties in their red zone.
True. That is why I do not have much sympathy for Trent Robinson because he coaches this.
 
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