News Outrage as Indigenous All Stars fail to sing national anthem.

[Hacky McAxe]

Why isn’t it similar? I want retribution for their ancestors actions regardless of where they reside, the exact same atrocities where committed in each case.

Except some ‘nations’ I won’t say race because that’ll be racist know how to move past, past indiscretions. I think the aboriginal people are the only nation on earth where it’s still never enough.

What?

Native Americans still complain about being virtually wiped out during colonisation and that happened long before the Australian colonisation.

Canada still recognises and reflects on the genocide of the native children.

The Argentina expansion, the Russian conquest of Siberia, the British colonisation of Africa, the Japanese island expansion.

Many of these are accepted as genocide and the native populations are aided, but they still have tensions over what happened. Others like the Ainu in Japan and Russia are still fighting for independence from the invading force. Africa has recently started taking back its land through some pretty horrible policy and violence.

The Aboriginal populations aren't alone. No indigenous population has accepted what happened to them.

 

[Mr Invisible]

This creates a conundrum. If you don't want to sing the national anthem because it associates / recognises you as being Australian.... would it not then be hypocritical if any of these players got picked for the Australian rep team, and accepted the position?

and if they don't get picked, that opens the NRL up to a potential incident of "they aren't picking us because of the All Stars anthem thing", or "NRL are being racist and only picking white players".

Tis a very real scenario that the NRL have backed themselves into here and I don't think we have heard the end of it.

 

[Bull Terrier]

This creates a conundrum. If you don't want to sing the national anthem because it associates / recognises you as being Australian.... would it not then be hypocritical if any of these players got picked for the Australian rep team, and accepted the position?

and if they don't get picked, that opens the NRL up to a potential incident of "they aren't picking us because of the All Stars anthem thing", or "NRL are being racist and only picking white players".

Tis a very real scenario that the NRL have backed themselves into here and I don't think we have heard the end of it.

I have thought about this and after reading and commenting on this thread I think it’s best this game gets put to bed for good and not played again as it only upsets people and causes a bigger divide we already have in this country. I think every Australian who lives here should respect our national Anthem doesn’t matter who you are or where u come from.

 

[Canis Maximus]

And it's an anthem that was developed by white Australians while the Aboriginals had no part in the development of it. Some have given some leniency by allowing the national anthem to be sung in traditional aboriginal which is at least something.

Let me play Devils advocate.
If the national anthem was developed in conjunction with the Aboriginal people - would it change the past?
If the flag was changed to incorporate the original people - would it change the past?
If we change the day we celebrate Australia Day - would it change the past?

We've said sorry.
Now is the time to get over the past - not forget, but forgive. Heal and move forward. There is only so much one can do and so much we can say.

 

[Noeasyday]

Sport and politics don't mix...

This game was meant to be a celebration of Aboriginal culture within rugby league and to a wider extent to provide a positive impact on Australia's abo population.
The non singing of the anthem probably hurts the game more then it promotes positive discussion regarding bridging the perceived gap between the abo race and white australia.
I don't mind this game being held every year but I think it should be tweaked, similar to the NBA All Stars draft.
You'd have two teams, say the Abo All Stars and the World All Stars.
The captain / coach of each team can trade players between squads, say the Abo All Stars need a decent front rower they can trade for a player from the World team etc.
Promoting inclusiveness rather then being divided over a song would better the cause on all sides.

 

[Dawgfather]

Who gives a fuck?

Many aboriginals don't want to celebrate white Australia.

Seriously. Just admit the truth. We invaded Australia We won. They're pissed off about that. Let them grieve.

Two points:

1. It's an enormous misreading of history and demographics to suggest that Australia is 'overly white' and that somehow 'white culture' has done nothing but bad things for this country. It's not just a misreading, its flagrantly wrong.

Two small examples, (but a practical one), I sat my Chartered Accounting exams over the past year or two and generally in a room with approx 200 students in it, the number of white students was probably around 15-20% of the students (at an absolute maximum). Doesn't sound very 'white' to me.

In my office, there are people from most parts of the world, a number of black africans, white africans, asians from many different countries, europeans, arabs, south americans ..... the list goes on.

2. How long are they allowed to be victims and grieve for? It's been more than 200 years, and given the average lift expectancy of aboriginal people - there are now possibly 5-6 generations separating people who actually experienced colonisation, and anyone alive today.

Do you have any idea what happened to your Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandparents during their lives and everyone who oppressed them? I certainly don't. And even if I did - what on earth does that have to do with my life in 2019?

Also - what about mixed marriages. How many aboriginals have purely aboriginal ancestry still. Are you allowed to grieve if you have even one aboriginal ancestor our of the 10-12 grandparents that date back?



The answer to these questions is that playing the victim and 'grieving' does nothing for anyone. It doesn't advance the interests of aboriginal australians and it doesn't help the country unite.

 

[Dawgfather]

And it's an anthem that was developed by white Australians while the Aboriginals had no part in the development of it. Some have given some leniency by allowing the national anthem to be sung in traditional aboriginal which is at least something.

According to this logic, anyone with any 'non-white blood' in them should be objecting to singing the national anthem because it was developed by white people. Should asian/arab/south american/africans also be repulsed at the thought of singing the national anthem? Or is it just aboriginals?

Your argument is Marxism/identity politics at it's finest.It's the idea that you treat people according to the group they belong to, instead of treating them as an individual.

It's a disgusting concept and it leads to nothing but tribes who want to murder each other because everyone picks a group and when humans primarly see themselves as part of a group, they tend to end up at each others necks.

 

[Canis Maximus]

This creates a conundrum. If you don't want to sing the national anthem because it associates / recognises you as being Australian.... would it not then be hypocritical if any of these players got picked for the Australian rep team, and accepted the position?

and if they don't get picked, that opens the NRL up to a potential incident of "they aren't picking us because of the All Stars anthem thing", or "NRL are being racist and only picking white players".

Tis a very real scenario that the NRL have backed themselves into here and I don't think we have heard the end of it.

Exactly!!!! Who is running the NRL?
Who came up with the idea of celebrating Aboriginal culture by lets see........ a game that pits 1 RACE against another. The Aboriginal race against the Maori race - WTF.
Personally i am not a big fan of this game/fixture in general - not on racism grounds but because i just don't see any point. Sure, play for club, play for State or play for country...
But i would support the celebration by say selecting 30 all Aboriginal/Torren Straight Island players from across all divisions of our code - including state based comps if numbers are required.
Show case their welcome to country, their songs, their dance - their culture. Play a game of league - NRL Indigenous versus Prime Ministers Indigenous.

Just a thought.

 

[DoggiesBoy]

I bet the exact same people on here telling aborigines to move on and forgot the past, will totally forgot about that advice come Anzac day.

 

[Mr Invisible]

Exactly!!!! Who is running the NRL?
Who came up with the idea of celebrating Aboriginal culture by lets see........ a game that pits 1 RACE against another. The Aboriginal race against the Maori race - WTF.
Personally i am not a big fan of this game/fixture in general - not on racism grounds but because i just don't see any point. Sure, play for club, play for State or play for country...
But i would support the celebration by say selecting 30 all Aboriginal/Torren Straight Island players from across all divisions of our code - including state based comps if numbers are required.
Show case their welcome to country, their songs, their dance - their culture. Play a game of league - NRL Indigenous versus Prime Ministers Indigenous.

Just a thought.

If the NRL were smart they'd televise and play the Koori Cup early in the season, that would be greater awareness.

 

[Dawgfather]

Exactly!!!! Who is running the NRL?
Who came up with the idea of celebrating Aboriginal culture by lets see........ a game that pits 1 RACE against another. The Aboriginal race against the Maori race - WTF.
Personally i am not a big fan of this game/fixture in general - not on racism grounds but because i just don't see any point. Sure, play for club, play for State or play for country...
But i would support the celebration by say selecting 30 all Aboriginal/Torren Straight Island players from across all divisions of our code - including state based comps if numbers are required.
Show case their welcome to country, their songs, their dance - their culture. Play a game of league - NRL Indigenous versus Prime Ministers Indigenous.

Just a thought.

lol true.

I wonder what would happen if the NRL proposed an all-start team filled with 'White Players'.

lol imagine the outrage.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Let me play Devils advocate.
If the national anthem was developed in conjunction with the Aboriginal people - would it change the past?
If the flag was changed to incorporate the original people - would it change the past?
If we change the day we celebrate Australia Day - would it change the past?

We've said sorry.
Now is the time to get over the past - not forget, but forgive. Heal and move forward. There is only so much one can do and so much we can say.

That I agree with. But people are saying that they should be kicked out of the game because they didn't sing the national anthem. That's just overkill.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

According to this logic, anyone with any 'non-white blood' in them should be objecting to singing the national anthem because it was developed by white people. Should asian/arab/south american/africans also be repulsed at the thought of singing the national anthem? Or is it just aboriginals?

Your argument is Marxism/identity politics at it's finest.It's the idea that you treat people according to the group they belong to, instead of treating them as an individual.

It's a disgusting concept and it leads to nothing but tribes who want to murder each other because everyone picks a group and when humans primarly see themselves as part of a group, they tend to end up at each others necks.

Nice attempt to twist my words there.

Typical conservative ideology, "anyone who doesn't agree with me is Marxist scum. Aboriginals have no rights 'cause they're not Gods children"

Think of it this way. You live in a house for a long time. Eventually someone moves into your house without your permission and paints your walls pink. You can complain or you can suck it up and live with the pink walls.

Or possibly this one. You run a company. Eventually someone carried out a hostile takeover of your company. After many years they agree to let you partner in the company. Equal cut. But you have no say in how the company operates. Also, they changed the company slogan to "God doesn't exist" and you have to publicly say that slogan and if you complain, just get over it already.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

lol true.

I wonder what would happen if the NRL proposed an all-start team filled with 'White Players'.

lol imagine the outrage.

Probably not 'cause they'd just get their butts kicked by the Aboriginal and Mouri teams.

 

[no1bulldog]

lol true.

I wonder what would happen if the NRL proposed an all-start team filled with 'White Players'.

lol imagine the outrage.

and to top it off officials had a colour card and if your skin was lighter than the card you could not be selected in the aboriginal team, also blue eyes and blonde hair would rule out selection.

many of these so called aboriginal protestors are whiter than me and look more like Swedish tourists than indigenous, do they also hate themselves? do they apologise endlessly to other aboriginals because they obviously carry over 90% "white" DNA...…..its just convenient and handout wise better off to claim being aboriginal

 

[steeliz]

At the end of the day Australia is a free country, in which we have free speech.

Any citizen is allowed to protest what they see as an injustice. The indigenous players had every right to do what they did, just as others have the right to criticize them for it.

Whether they were right in their protest is a different matter.

They protested a song they say represented colonization and invasion.

But Advanced Australia Fair was not our national anthem until it replaced God Save the Queen in 1974. God Save the Queen was re-instated in the late 70's by Fraser.

Advance Australia Fair was then again our national anthem somewhere in the early to mid eighties.

If the indigenous players were protesting God Save the Queen then there case may have a little merit, but I am sure anyone could mount an argument that with Advanced Australia Fair becoming our national anthem that
that in itself was a move away from our colonialist past.

 

[Freakzilla]

I bet the exact same people on here telling aborigines to move on and forgot the past, will totally forgot about that advice come Anzac day.

Underrated take.

 

[N4TE]

I’ve often wondered where Indigenous Australians would be if the early settlers just sailed on by?

They seemed to survive for 80,000 years before settlers so they probably would have been good but yeah who cares anyway I hate this argument it is what it is... Move on

 

[Rodzilla]

2. How long are they allowed to be victims and grieve for? It's been more than 200 years, and given the average lift expectancy of aboriginal people - there are now possibly 5-6 generations separating people who actually experienced colonisation, and anyone alive today.

but those 5-6 generations have their own reasons to be pissed off, like being massacred and kidnapped

 

[Dawgfather]

but those 5-6 generations have their own reasons to be pissed off, like being massacred and kidnapped

My basic point is that everyone has a reason to be pissed off. Maybe you're ugly, maybe your boss is taking advantage of you, maybe you were molested as a kid, maybe your parents were abused, maybe you just aren't fulfilling your potential and life isn't going well.

But what's the solution?

The modern approach is to tell these people that they are victims, that someone else is oppressing them, and that society owes them a living as a result.

It's the WRONG solution.

The solution is to assist these people to approach their difficulty with RESPONSIBILITY, and the overall message should be "life is hard and life will be hard, that is life - but if you take responsibility and try your best to be a productive and social member of society, then things can get better".