Old Habits Die Hard

[xanderalexander]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

 

[M4cca]

Majority of our tries the last two weeks have been from ad lib footy. We need to develop our ability to score off set plays inside the 20

 

[diddly]

Agree - does playing eyes up on first tackle make you a better team or is being a better team allow you to play eyes up footy?

Commentary talk a lot about the better teams completing sets after scoring points - completing sets after scoring points helps make them good teams.

Junior rep footy has lost a fair bit of appeal due to the one out forward after forward - centres playing as extra forwards- hit up followed by a kick - brain dead footy.

 

[ILiveForDib]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

Flannagan is 70% of your answer can’t run ur set players when your halfback doesn’t thread that key pass or recognise an overlap. Flannagan to wadell instead of out to averillo. Other 30% is attributed to poor coaching over the last god knows how many years. Top structures aren’t implemented in a a few weeks it’s months of perfecting my them hense Melbourne’s success. Suppose that’s how your differentiate from your Bellamy to your average NRL coach.

Potter has impressed me with what he has done with the side in such a short period mid season tozz

 

[red-dog]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

These are things that change with time, particularly an off season. Potter has come in & steadied the ship but also got us winning matches. For now it seems he is focused on getting fitness and confidence back in the team, and should he get the job full time then that's where you will see more significant changes to playing structures.

 

[oldpuppy]

the analysis is valid. we are no means a finished product in attack but we have improved in seizing opportunities when they present themselves and converting into points. Defence is starting to look more structured and desperation looks to have been finally be encoded in the team.
We're definitely still a work in progress but on the right trajectory.
I'm happy with 2 wins in a row and convincing ones at that. Hopefully those one off flukey wins are a distant memory to us suffering fans.

 

[Malla]

If we had a better hooker we probably do a little better in opponents red zone.

There are always plenty of opportunities around the middle of the ruck on either side of markers. Grant, Mahoney, Api and Robson always do it - they get 2 forwards pushing up and they have 4 options - go short, face ball to second forward, go out the back or dummy and go for the try. JMK actually scored our first try in that fashion last night but it just opened up for him, he never really does it as consistnetly.

Reason why this is key is then we are a threat from dummy half and teams need to defend this first and foremost which then opens things up on the edges. At the moment they really just have to mark up man to man and keep a good line speed and they will shut it all down. Our decoy runners don't even look like they are ever getting the ball, its pretty easy to defend.

Most of our tries have been adlib which shows great natural footy being played but we are not going to get these opportunities against the Sharks. We have to be extremely well disciplined and capitalize on opportunities when we get them.

 

[CMP]

The better teams still run the settler plays. The difference is they run them with purpose. We pick the ball up from dummy half and pass to the player standing there. The better teams have a full set plan for certain situations. E.g run two plays at a particular point. To open up the other side for a practiced set play. This all stems from the coaching in practice and the 9 & 7 directing players with where they need to be.

I don’t know about Potter but Baz definitely spent no time on this. With our current 9 & 7 they look clueless that this is even a thing.

 

[Family Guy]

Flannagan is 70% of your answer can’t run ur set players when your halfback doesn’t thread that key pass or recognise an overlap. Flannagan to wadell instead of out to averillo. Other 30% is attributed to poor coaching over the last god knows how many years. Top structures aren’t implemented in a a few weeks it’s months of perfecting my them hense Melbourne’s success. Suppose that’s how your differentiate from your Bellamy to your average NRL coach.

Potter has impressed me with what he has done with the side in such a short period mid season tozz

Good point but dont forget JMK who is equally as bad as Flanno at taking the wrong/dumb option
Potter doesnt have time, and the players, to fix our attack yet. We're still playing Desball but not as much

 

[billy beane]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

I think it's a case of learning to crawl before we walk.

We have come a long way in a short time.

Patience.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Rome wasn't built in a day. Set plays require familiarity, the players have to know each other very well. for season after season. And then practise in the preseason, yet more preseason practise and then a bit more reinforcement practise during the season. So that it is second nature, the passer just knows that the catcher is going to be there and be ready. We haven't had a settled playing group for years, constant change does not build report amongst the group, who basically are competing against each other for their positions. It also makes them selfish, they want to protect their own jobs, forget about helping someone else score a try or make a break.

Potter knows this, that's why he has dumbed it down, made it simple for the players. We don't currently have the luxury of a consistent playing group that have had time together to enable them to instantly switch into set play routines. That's why we take a settler so everyone can get their heads straight and their bodies into position. As a comparison Barrett tried to jump straight into a large number of complex plays, that 15 new players out of 30, were never going to handle.

A good team has a multitude of set plays, otherwise their opposition knows what defence to run against it. It's not as simple as having a handful in the kit bag that you roll out time after time.

Next year we have a fairly stable core group of players, they are already building trust in each other, a lot of the selfishness has gone. That said I am sure Potter has a pretty thick play book to role out when the time is right this year.


Always a Bulldog

 

[Dognacious]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

We arent going to fix everything overnight, we were last 2 weeks ago, but I'm happy about what Potter has fixed already in his short time. A good start.

 

[Bluebody]

Flannagan is 70% of your answer can’t run ur set players when your halfback doesn’t thread that key pass or recognise an overlap. Flannagan to wadell instead of out to averillo. Other 30% is attributed to poor coaching over the last god knows how many years. Top structures aren’t implemented in a a few weeks it’s months of perfecting my them hense Melbourne’s success. Suppose that’s how your differentiate from your Bellamy to your average NRL coach.

Potter has impressed me with what he has done with the side in such a short period mid season tozz

'The amount of times Flano was meant to pass it out the back with a cut our pass option was ridiculous. He would either hold onto the ball or pass it to someone who was already marked up fully.

I agree though, the setup plays are a waste on the opposition 10 metre line - we should be attacking play after play with inside passes and cut out passes to players with bodies in fast motion and support players either side of them.

 

[bradtalo]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

Something I've hated FOREVER and so f..king frustrating to watch your team waste 4 tackles in good ball (easy for opposition defenders) the often put in a shit lottery kicks on the fifth which we don't have a high success rate at scoring from either. I heard Shane Flanagan speaking ages ago about wasting good ball also - one of the reasons I like him. I wish Potter could fix this next

 

[xanderalexander]

I played footy for over a decade growing up and I try to watch every match every round. I also read and listen to a variety of footy commentators, weekly.

I have *never* understood why play-makers so consistently just go through the motions for the first four tackles and leave the 'big play' or the attacking kick for tackle 5 - when it's expected.

If someone could explain it to me, I'd be eternally grateful.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I played footy for over a decade growing up and I try to watch every match every round. I also read and listen to a variety of footy commentators, weekly.

I have *never* understood why play-makers so consistently just go through the motions for the first four tackles and leave the 'big play' or the attacking kick for tackle 5 - when it's expected.

If someone could explain it to me, I'd be eternally grateful.

Because the shit coached teams take that long to get all the players in the right position for the "big play". The well coached teams do it in one play the ball, every player knows their place and task because they have rehearsed it 100's of times at training. Players in the stress of a game are like goldfish, they forget anything complicated, that's why the common quote "the coach made it simple for me" is so common.

The 4th tackle centre of the field forward settler is quite common, even amongst the best teams, because every player should be in position, ready and the defence is spread both sides.

Always a Bulldog

 

[Novdoggie]

The better teams still run the settler plays. The difference is they run them with purpose. We pick the ball up from dummy half and pass to the player standing there. The better teams have a full set plan for certain situations. E.g run two plays at a particular point. To open up the other side for a practiced set play. This all stems from the coaching in practice and the 9 & 7 directing players with where they need to be.

I don’t know about Potter but Baz definitely spent no time on this. With our current 9 & 7 they look clueless that this is even a thing.

Yeh I also noticed that when JMK went to Burtons side it was a long pass out but when he went to the other side where Flanno was it was a short pass to first receiver, a forward on most occasions.

There was one play though I think about 3st min Flanno had a chance to put Avo through a gap but Avo wasn't pushing through so it kind of tells me that Flannos assignment is just keep it simple but the problem is the other players aren't expecting much to happen so it turns out flat.

Also, we did tire their forwards out early and we did get some repeat sets, one from Flanno so maybe Potters game plan is to grind them out and win at the back end of the game.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Just throwing this out there, but when you have forwards like James Fisher Harris, Leota, Big Nelson, Jesse Bromwich, Junior Paulo, RCG, etc your settlers turn into crash over plays and actually are opportunities as well as settlers

 

[dogwhisperer]

While I'm thrilled about the last two rounds, there is one aspect of the game that desperately needs cleaning up.

I'm a big fan of listening to Cooper Cronk analyse games and he makes a point that is has lately been repeated by the likes of Greg Alexander, Andrew Voss, Andrew Johns, Warren Smith and Brenton Speed to name a few. Think what you will of them, but they see each and every game and can see the trends of the top teams in 2022.

The better teams, when in the opponents' red zone (30m from the try-line), rarely see a need for settler plays. Ie., throwing a FRF or 2RF up the middle to attract a few defenders while the attacking line gets set for the next raid. They are able to fall into their set plays, or structures for eyes-up attack, without the need for settlers. They have the ability to go sideline to sideline with decoy runners, cut out passes and inside plays occurring naturally.

In today's modern game, the FRF and 2RF should be battling up-field and being staunch in defence through the middle. They should not be heavily involved when a team is close to the try line, unless working a crash play or running a defender-attracting decoy.

In our last two outings against the Eels and the Tigers, I noticed that while in our opponents' red zone, we had sets that almost always looked something like this:

Tackle One: Waddell takes a hit up
Tackle Two: Jackson takes a hit up
Tackle Three: Stimson takes a hit up
Tackle Four: TPJ is thrown into the line but rarely had anyone backing up ready to take the offload because all focus is on setting up a structure for the next play
Tackle Five/Six: Attacking play, usually directed via Burton but occasionally going through Flanagan.

With Averillo finding a home at fullback and definitely having a passing game in his skill set, I don't know why our team constantly uses up tackles as settlers that do nothing but allow the opposition to set their defensive lines.

We have Addo Carr, Schoupp, Kiraz, Averillo who all have tackle-break and line-breaking ability. We have way more offloads in our attack now that Max King and TPJ are having breakouts, and since being named for the 2023 Dolphins, even JMK is looking less JNK. We have creativity and early kicks in Burton and a crisp passing game in Flanagan.

Potter is doing an exceptional job but this is an area that needs immediate rectification in my opinion.

Yep, very true what you are saying. But I also like the way they are playing as you have also mentioned.
I've been following the dogs for 40 years, and as far as I can remember we've never been text book attacking style of team. We've always been a team that creates points off our defence, from kicks, 2nd phase and offloads, backing up etc. We always had a different style to other sides. As long as our attitude is right the points will always come.

 

[w00t]

Makes you wonder what exactly it was that Barrett did for the entirety of the last preseason.