Nuclear Subs

[Nano]

Even putting aside the nuclear argument, that's been part of the whole debate of manufacturing ceasing in Australia. Lose manufacturing and then you lose the engineers, the designers, the R&D experts etc. and the end result is potentially exposing us in defence.

It is a shame because we have access to plenty of raw material and skilled people actually good with design, it is just the cost to keep it going isn't balanced even though covid has exposed we need a lot of things made locally again in case of transport closures.

I've been lucky that I have found jobs as a mechanical designer within mechanical engineering here

 

[Bazildog]

The sooner we invite the Yanks and the Poms to have bases from Newcastle all the way around the top down to Albany in WA the better. We are a massive mineral rich country with a defence capacity capable of keeping New Guinea at bay for a couple of weeks at best... If you don't think that country North of us with over a billion people doesn't see that then you are sadly mistaken.

The only good think about Nukes is that they are a deterrent, we cant rely on other countries and our alliances alone.

 

[Dogmonster]

F**k China all the do is spend their money on arsinal, we shouldn't have our heads under the sand thinking they won't want to use it against us, they deserve to be punished, and bugger France, they joined the Nazis. Better come home Maloney.

 

[Kurrupt78]

Maybe not now, but you start to feel like it’s inevitable (conflict) The Americans pulling out of Afghanistan (frees them up?), provoking the Chinese to do something in South China Sea with their navy, other countries in the area beefing up their security like Taiwan and Philippines. Now this pact with Australia US and UK. Just feels like shit is going to go down and the Chinese if they feel this noose constricting around them will lash out first imo

 

[Psycho Doggie]

France will be pissed off.

I was undecided until the last item, now I'm totally on board.

Actually in terms of China, the real key to addressing Chinese power is trade, production, and diplomacy. The biggest error was letting them get production monopoly on key items of tech infrastructure involving rare earth elements. They import most of the rare earth elements that they process, but sources say they do between 70 and 90% of the global processing. That is far too high for one country, given the product is used in so many important items of military and civilian hardware.

Countries like US and Aus are making moves to secure increasing amounts of domestic production, but they are still a long way behind. This is a major key though, you can build/purchase all the military tech you want, you'll only last so long in a full on war without spare parts, and at the moment everyone relies on China for the spare parts.

Not to mention the same stuff is used in all kinds of medical and communications tech as well, we'd all be in trouble if China decides to cut off supply. That is why for the meantime there is likely to be a limit to how antagonistic other countries get towards China, and China will continue to try and ramp up its military. Other countries can't afford to get China too angry unless they can secure REE products through other channels, and China knows that there will come a time when they do.

Which is why diplomacy and trade is also vital, to reduce as much of China's soft power projection as possible.

A few sources:

How Washington is going to shore up our critical mineral supply

The world relies on China to produce the building blocks of the modern world, which include rare earths. A new deal with Washington aims to shift Canberra's reliance on its northern neighbour.

www.abc.net.au

The U.S. Needs China For Rare Earth Minerals? Not For Long, Thanks To This Mountain

If the folks at USA Rare Earth have anything to say about it, we'll soon start weaning ourselves off rival powers as our source for those critical elements.

www.forbes.com

The new U.S. plan to rival China and end cornering of market in rare earth metals

The US has long relied on China for rare earth metals, but domestic supply chains are being pursued as climate and technology investments increase under Biden.

www.cnbc.com

 

[The DoggFather]

WW3 will be China vs the world.

I just hope Uncle Putin either stays out of it or goes against the commie pin dicks.

 

[speedy2460]

This is a great start. The next big move must be Nuclear Energy provision.
It also puts the feral Greens in their place.

 

[bulldog butch]

WW3 will be China vs the world.

I just hope Uncle Putin either stays out of it or goes against the commie pin dicks.

I never understand why the west and Russia can't be allies.... Turn a blind eye to what happens in Russia, and make a deal with them on e few ex soviet blocs that they want back...... Imagine how powerful the west would be with Russia as an ally...

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yep. Nuclear subs are great. Next poll.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

WW3 will be China vs the world.

I just hope Uncle Putin either stays out of it or goes against the commie pin dicks.

Russia will do what they do during every conflict. They'll provide one side with weapons, and the US will provide the other side with weapons.

 

[CroydonDog]

Going by our history with submarines, the Chinese might be safe...

China Panics After Learning They've Only Got 25 Years Until Australia Gets 8 New Submarines — The Betoota Advocate

CLANCY OVERELL | Editor | CONTACT According to Scotty From Marketing’s newest announcement aimed at drowning out the news that Christian Porter MP is paying his legal fees through a blind trust that has been topped up with millions of dollars by a faceless stranger who he has never met...

www.betootaadvocate.com

 

[DinkumDog]

From the thread title I thought we were talking about the pub. Oh.

More seriously, it’s no contest, nuclear subs are vastly superior to diesel in terms of propulsion, noise and versatility and in a world of so much uncertainty politically and the Indo Pacific containing rogues like China and North Korea, Australia should absolutely have the most advanced military technology. We’ve got the F35 in the air and need the best in the drink too.

 

[Ripley]

From the thread title I thought we were talking about the pub. Oh.

More seriously, it’s no contest, nuclear subs are vastly superior to diesel in terms of propulsion, noise and versatility

Only one of those is true, the first. Second is false and the third is dependent on purpose.

There’s an argument, and I think a good one, that there’s more things relevant to our security needs we won’t be able to do than will be able to do with nukes.

Nukes are pure blue water warship, beats a diesel hands down in that regard. But in what a diesel excels in - shallow water patrols (like our borders, and sea lanes), surveillance and clandestine operations (insertion of a small raiding party for example), even if you haven’t forfeited that ability completely with a nuke, which you probably have, a diesel does it much better.

 

[DinkumDog]

Only one of those is true, the first. Second is false and the third is dependent on purpose.

There’s an argument, and I think a good one, that there’s more things relevant to our security needs we won’t be able to do than will be able to do with nukes.

Nukes are pure blue water warship, beats a diesel hands down in that regard. But in what a diesel excels in - shallow water patrols (like our borders, and sea lanes), surveillance and clandestine operations (insertion of a small raiding party for example), even if you haven’t forfeited that ability completely with a nuke, which you probably have, a diesel does it much better.

Fair - and sounds like you’re qualified. My comment was broad based on what I’ve been reading and I’m certainly no expert in maritime craft - I know more about aircraft - and was a big supporter of Australia’s acquisition of F35’s despite the huge cost - it has given us superior air power within the region as the potential for instability in the Indo Pacific seems higher than any time since WWII. Things were different back when we used to acquire (largely) older equipment from the US but that’s no longer good enough so I like that we have the best in military tech at our disposal. Back on the subs, is a mixed fleet of nuke and diesel out of the question to satisfy both missions? Is it purely cost?

 

[N4TE]

I think the world could be a much better place if the military budgets everywhere could be redirected to healthcare, better education and other worthy causes. Unfortunately there are still too many nations focused on exploiting small nations for resources through strong arm tactics.

I honestly don't care if we improve our major arsenal. We're too small a nation to be a major player in wars. If it came down to a nuclear war we'd be screwed up easily by the fact that we have few major cities that could easily be targeted.

100% we are like the kid that just got a Super Nintendo and everyone in the playground is are you serious we all have the new PlayStation you loser. Spend it on hydro projects, health, education

 

[Ripley]

Fair - and sounds like you’re qualified. My comment was broad based on what I’ve been reading and I’m certainly no expert in maritime craft - I know more about aircraft - and was a big supporter of Australia’s acquisition of F35’s despite the huge cost - it has given us superior air power within the region as the potential for instability in the Info Pacific seems higher than any time since WWII. Things were different back when we used to acquire (largely) older equipment from the US but that’s no longer good enough so I like that we have the best in military tech at our disposal. Back on the subs, is a mixed fleet of nuke and diesel out of the question to satisfy both missions? Is it purely cost?

NOT qualified, at all, not even a little bit.

Just done a lot of reading on it, both last time the deal was made (with The French) and yesterday.

And I’ve got more to say on it, after I wash the car and mow the lawns.

 

[Rodzilla]

You can be far more efficient in spending money to boost an economy than building useless things. And make no mistake, buying/building a tank, or fighter aircraft or destroyer or nuclear submarine that is never used for it's intended purpose is a useless thing. Every single nuclear weapon ever made apart from two, were complete wastes of money.

it’s kept the peace though

for example there were so many wars, the Hundred Years’ War, the world wars, 30 year war, 65 and a half year war,as soon as they got these weapons everybody suddenly became more civilised

 

[The DoggFather]

The senile Murikan dumb **** doesn't know the Aussie Hillsong dumb ****.

What can go wrong? Lol

President Biden ‘doesn’t know where he is or who he’s talking to’

US President Joe Biden doesn't know who he's talking to or where he is, says former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger. It comes after President Biden appeared to forget Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s name during a historic announcement that will see Australia acquire...

www.news.com.au

 

[KambahOne]

it’s kept the peace though

for example there were so many wars, the Hundred Years’ War, the world wars, 30 year war, 65 and a half year war,as soon as they got these weapons everybody suddenly became more civilised

Oh yes, Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD), there has never been a more appropriate acronym to describe the proliferation of nuclear weapons. But that doesn't alter the fact that nukes are useless, you cannot use them and that makes them useless.

The other thing that makes nukes a complete waste of money is the number each country has, see below. There are currently enough nukes to irradiate the world about 2,000 times, when logic states one would suffice, so all the excess nukes are...complete wastes of money.

 

[Tuffers]

Damn, these subs could have really made a difference in Afghanistan....