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Moses mic'd up with Lichaa

Discussion in 'Bulldogs Discussion' started by Dogna88, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. Gotenks

    Gotenks Immortal Gilded

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    Wrong. Klemmer was the starting prop for the Aussies this WC. The only time he didn't start was when Mal rotated the forwards.

    It's really very simple. If Pay needs to bench one of Klemmer, Woods or Tolman then it's going to be Tolman. If it isn't Tolman, then Pay should give it away because he certainly isn't cut out to be an NRL coach if that's his decision.

    You start your best forwards, simple as that. There's no need to look at it any other way. Both Woods and Klemmer are clearly better props than Tolman, so to bench either one of them for Tolman is ridiculous.
     
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  2. Bulldogs09

    Bulldogs09 Immortal

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    What? Think your wrong mate. Klemmer started every game for Aus bar one for the World Cup and that one he was on the bench with woods and it was to let the other two (McLean and Gillard) start one game?

    Regardless of this bench him
    Over tolman stuff he is a fit machine he punches out 60 easy in a game. He starts. Him and woods both do. If tolman isn’t 13 then he hopefully is released before kick off. Sadly he offers nothing off the bench and is just a tackle machine. I wish he was off contract for 2018 not just re signed.
     
  3. doggieaaron

    doggieaaron Immortal

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    I think pay will start with klem/woods as props and tolman as a tackling machine lock
     
  4. Oatley Dog

    Oatley Dog Kennel Enthusiast

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    If I was the selector I would too. I can't help but think Tolman will be a starter at least in the early stages of the season and I think it is highly possible he will be captain. That doesn't add up to a bench player in my view. Truth is he is certainly in the top 13 players in the club any way you cut it. Some of the young blokes will hopefully get there but Tolman is a seasoned FG player.
     
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  5. SecretLifeOfPetsTheMovie

    SecretLifeOfPetsTheMovie Kennel Enthusiast

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    He is not in the top 13... He’s a prop, and there are two props on the field that are better than him.
     
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  6. Gotenks

    Gotenks Immortal Gilded

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    Hopefully not. A lock needs to do more than just tackle these days.
     
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  7. EB18

    EB18 Forum Regular

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    Im willing to give Frawley 1st crack as Forans partner. I think these 2 together will be our best option in terms of managing a game. I think most good teams have at least 2 game managers in there lineups. Ours need to be our havles as our hooker is a runner not a game manager. Frawley and Foran will be our best option to manage a game with the roster we have.

    As for Tolman at lock these no way id have him starting at lock. I totally agree a lock needs to offer more then just tackle.

    If Pay decides to start Tolman at lock then hopefully he gives him clear instructions to not touch the ball in the opposition red zone at all. Also when attacking to just run decoys and keep well clear of the ruck.
     
  8. doggieaaron

    doggieaaron Immortal

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    It depends what the other forwards are doing,every forward pack needs a worker,some on heres obsession with every forward needing to be this dynamic impact type of forward is very not right as you need a mix
     
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  9. Oatley Dog

    Oatley Dog Kennel Enthusiast

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    Well that's it isn't it. There are 4 blokes who control the centre, the front row and the lock. They have to work as a team to get the job done. If one is a defensive specialist that takes a bit of pressure off the other 3 who can then play to their respective strengths. The issue is which 4 blokes make the best team in the centre. I think given that Graham has gone, Pay will keep Tolman in the centre from minute 1. How long he stays on the field will depend on the bench players he picks. Tualau I think is a must as he is an out and out prop and good foil for Klemm, prob Fualolo who depending on what Pay does with Tolman in the second quarter will either be lock or prop and then it will be a combination of RFM, Eastwood, Priest, Brown and a couple of others for the last 2 spots. My view is that JJ and Elliott are attacking second rowers who can defend and so will stay in their current positions (if not roles) early on. Still, only 6 weeks to the first trial......
     
  10. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    Really? I didn't know that
     
  11. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    Ok sorry I just went off what he looks like. I won't Be researching his height
     
  12. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    And why wouldn't he change it up?
    Has it been working for us for him not to tamper with it?
    Change is what we need
     
  13. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    Seasoned first grader lol
    That does not give him a position ahead of a young firing player, ready to have a crack at a starting spot.

    Tolman doesn't have a place in the starting side for me maybe he should learn to adapt and learn to start from the bench.
     
  14. bcmf

    bcmf Kennel Enthusiast

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    Tolman offers nothing outside of desball.
    If he wants to survive, he needs to reinvent himself to be an explosive player or develop the stamina to be a more effective 80min player (ie bigger metres per hit up and bigger tackles).
     
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  15. Gotenks

    Gotenks Immortal Gilded

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    Don't agree with that anymore. Players need to be capable at a few things these days, you can't just stick a bloke in and say tackle and we'll have everyone else do the rest. If Tolman is going to play lock he needs to contribute more in attack.

    Look at Mannering, he's probably the closest comparison to Tolman at lock. Mannering is capable of playing 80 and pumping 60+ tackles. However he can also ball play, offload, run a line, score a try, etc. If Tolman isn't capable of any of that then i don't want him playing lock, if he is, then great.

    He's also too small and too slow. He needs to get bigger and stronger so he can dominate tackles, make stronger runs, quicker play the balls, etc.
     
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  16. Oatley Dog

    Oatley Dog Kennel Enthusiast

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    I think a number of our young blokes have potential and could well be top flight FG players in the next year or so, but that is about potential. Tolman is a seasoned FG forward who plays the role he has been given well. He clearly is a leader in the team and it would seem that the board considers him the same off it. Everyone carries on as though Tolman was some nupty that played a couple of games and did nothing. The bloke has around 200 FG games under his belt and knows what is required. Just because the team played poorly last season doesn't mean they can't play footy anymore. He deserves a chance to show what he has and I for one don't think he will disappoint. If he does then at least he had a shot with the new coach, but to dump him before a ball is played in anger when he is only 29 years old just doesn't add up for mine.
     
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  17. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    They haven't just played poorly for one year mate it's been going on for 3 or 4 years,as a matter of fact even the year we played Souths in the gf was a fricken boring year.

    To mention how many games Tolman has played in first grade,yeah I understand what your saying, but also understand des Hasler never dropped a player no matter how bad he was playing and for how long he was playing. A player could clock up 100 games under des playing bad for all 100 games while we lose a youngster who is a superior player.
     
  18. Oatley Dog

    Oatley Dog Kennel Enthusiast

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    Don't forget Tolman played city country and was the shadow for SOO only a year or so ago. He was the rookie of the year with Storm before we bought him. The bloke has talent. He has been playing in accordance with Des' gameplan and at no point has he deserved to be dropped. Don't blame him that the gameplan was rubbish. He did his job as required and I think he will do his job as required for Pay. We just have to hope it is a different job because I am pretty sure Tolman will be there.
     
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  19. Phalangist

    Phalangist Kennel Enthusiast

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    Was a shadow player for origin? How far down the pecking order are you to become shadow foward for an origin team that has won 1 series of the past 10. Don't forget these days so many of the top front fowards are actually kiwi anyway...

    Played city country? So did licha after 3 first grade games.
    Your making him sound better then what he is.
    Does his job yes but I think we can find plenty who can do there job and add something different.
     
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  20. CaptainJackson

    CaptainJackson Kennel Addict Gilded

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    The degree of bending the rules/expectations/excuses for tolman is mind blowing.

    Tolman was a SOO shadow player back in 2012-2013, guess what's happened since then? The game has changed, the type of props have changed and tolman is now NOWHERE near SOO
     
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