LA Fires

[EL Hefe]

Read something about California donating heaps of firefighting equipment to Ukraine last year? Not sure how true it is. Also saw videos of fire-fighters using witches hats to scoop water and pour on flames.

Newsom cannot account for 24 billion from his own budget....

 

[Doogie]

it would help ease the situation though

Not even close. The water was for the houses that were partially burned after the front had passed. From the looks of it - this was very much a minority.

Check out the sitreps from Palisades. Numbers went up by the minute.

Palisades Fire Status Update Reports | CAL FIRE

www.fire.ca.gov

 

[InGusWeTrust]

The winter part is a good point to raise. While these fires are happening on the West Coast, the East Coast is having one of the worst snow storms they've had.

Yep, currently very unusual weather conditions over there. I actually haven’t taken notice of the temperature in Los Angeles, but assume the main factors contributing to such devastating fires is the very dry conditions, high winds and the natural features I mentioned before (canyons and vegetation). But many of those factors are usually present. Severe winds can make a massive difference to any fire though.

Many questions have been raised by citizens about the lack of water and other management issues, that will be interesting to hear the answers to, but I would imagine the Cali firies are one of the more experienced and knowledgeable fire services. I think I heard that the water issue was due to so many hydrants being used simultaneously.

It doesn’t help when the latest big fire (Kenneth (northwest of L.A)) was apparently started by a fire bug.

 

[Doogie]

One of the factors that made these intense fires possible is the vegetation and many canyons in the area where they started. Also dry conditions.

They have what is called chaparral, which is around 6ft tall bush basically, or what we might call scrub, and the wind just rockets up and down the canyon slopes. Add extremely strong winds (like they had a few days ago) and it’s a recipe for disaster. It doesn’t help that many of the communities affected, are along these canyon ridges, that are great scenic locations, but can be susceptible when bad fire conditions are present. Heaps of winding and narrow roads roo, around many of the areas.

I don’t know if they do proper HR burns but a lot of the wide open canyon areas where many fires take off look

This might answer your q about HR burns.

Prescribed Fire | CAL FIRE

The planned and controlled application of fire to the land under specified conditions, to reduce vegetation and risk from wildfire.

www.fire.ca.gov

As always - insurance.

 

[Doogie]

Newsom cannot account for 24 billion from his own budget....

Or...

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Yep. Once again shows how Trump never knows what he's talking about.

He made one of his usual Jekyll and Hyde comments the other day about how Newsom is a terrible governor, but he’s met and talked with him and he’s a good guy! …or something ridiculous like that. Then he said it’ll be up to the federal government (him) to come to the rescue lol. Meanwhile, Biden just signed something so that the fed will cover all rebuilding costs. Not sure if that includes personal homes and expenses or just state infrastructure though.

Apparently many homes were uninsured, not helped by supposedly 80,000 insurance policies being cancelled a while back. Guess the insurers saw this hell coming.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yep, currently very unusual weather conditions over there. I actually haven’t taken notice of the temperature in Los Angeles, but assume the main factors contributing to such devastating fires is the very dry conditions, high winds and the natural features I mentioned before (canyons and vegetation). But many of those factors are usually present. Severe winds can make a massive difference to any fire though.

Many questions have been raised by citizens about the lack of water and other management issues, that will be interesting to hear the answers to, but I would imagine the Cali firies are one of the more experienced and knowledgeable fire services. I think I heard that the water issue was due to so many hydrants being used simultaneously.

It doesn’t help when the latest big fire (Kenneth (northwest of L.A)) was apparently started by a fire bug.

The official report on the water shortage from the LA fireys is that a lack of power to water pumps, along with damaged infrastructure, has caused the water shortage. But I don't think we'll know the full story until there has been a full investigation.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

He made one of his usual Jekyll and Hyde comments the other day about how Newsom is a terrible governor, but he’s met and talked with him and he’s a good guy! …or something ridiculous like that. Then he said it’ll be up to the federal government (him) to come to the rescue lol. Meanwhile, Biden just signed something so that the fed will cover all rebuilding costs. Not sure if that includes personal homes and expenses or just state infrastructure though.

Apparently many homes were uninsured, not helped by supposedly 80,000 insurance policies being cancelled a while back. Guess the insurers saw this hell coming.

There's no better modelling than the modelling done by insurance companies. When they start massively raising premiums or cutting policies, you know the shit is about to hit the fan.

 

[Doogie]

The odd part is, they actually don't have a water shortage. They have plenty of water. Just don't have immediate access to it.

Water tanks went dry in Pacific Palisades, hampering efforts to fight fire

Three tanks and some fire hydrants temporarily lost water because of high demand. Experts said the system wasn’t built to fight a major blaze like this one.

www.nbcnews.com

That explains it. So, for some context, thats 11ML in 2 and a bit days. Thats basically 1 day of water for 75% of the Blue Mountains on a hot day.

We could do that in the BMs for maybe 4 days before we ran out. And before we ran out, we've got head issues, reservoirs too depleted. And that system is designed with firefighting redundancy in mind.

Tough gig. And as an example @chemdog - despite using enough water to service 200,000 peoples daily demand in 2 and a bit days, they saved shit from the sound of it. More water was not the answer.

 

[D0GMATIC]

One of the factors that made these intense fires possible is the vegetation and many canyons in the area where they started. Also dry conditions.

They have what is called chaparral, which is around 6ft tall bush basically, or what we might call scrub, and the wind just rockets up and down the canyon slopes. Add extremely strong winds (like they had a few days ago) and it’s a recipe for disaster. It doesn’t help that many of the communities affected, are along these canyon ridges, that are great scenic locations, but can be susceptible when bad fire conditions are present. Heaps of winding and narrow roads roo, around many of the areas.

I don’t know if they do proper HR burns but a lot of the wide open canyon areas where many fires take off look

You know what they say about common sense . . .

 

[chemdog]

Water tanks went dry in Pacific Palisades, hampering efforts to fight fire

Three tanks and some fire hydrants temporarily lost water because of high demand. Experts said the system wasn’t built to fight a major blaze like this one.

www.nbcnews.com

That explains it. So, for some context, thats 11ML in 2 and a bit days. Thats basically 1 day of water for 75% of the Blue Mountains on a hot day.

We could do that in the BMs for maybe 4 days before we ran out. And before we ran out, we've got head issues, reservoirs too depleted. And that system is designed with firefighting redundancy in mind.

Tough gig. And as an example @chemdog - despite using enough water to service 200,000 peoples daily demand in 2 and a bit days, they saved shit from the sound of it. More water was not the answer.

fair enough

 

[EL Hefe]

Or...
View attachment 127793

Or

 

[The New Legacy]

There's no better modelling than the modelling done by insurance companies. When they start massively raising premiums or cutting policies, you know the shit is about to hit the fan.

California forced insurance companies to insure fire prone areas pushing up premiums or forcing them to leave the state.

Insures would have left because they would have known there are issues that haven’t been addressed and that’s on the government and them only.

 

[Doogie]

Or

View attachment 127795

Fox News? How about Politico.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/california-playbook/2025/01/09/where-in-the-world-was-karen-bass-00197243

Reliable?

Politico Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates Politico, which covers politics and policy in America and across the world, as neutral/balanced in terms of bias and most reliable ...

adfontesmedia.com

Fox News reliability?

Fox News Website Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates the Fox News website, as skews right in terms of bias and as mixed reliability in ...

adfontesmedia.com

And lets not question the interwebs algorithm for your type of ads.

 

[Doogie]

California forced insurance companies to insure fire prone areas pushing up premiums or forcing them to leave the state.

Insures would have left because they would have known there are issues that haven’t been addressed and that’s on the government and them only.

Ahhhh no. So the issue State Farm had was that Cali did not allow underwriting. Getting 3rd parties to share the risk who add to the cost. Then with the frequency of natural disasters and an insurance cap to keep insurance affordable, State Farm could not make the #'s work. So they walked.

So Cali set up FAIR - which was a govt driven insurer with higher premiums as a last resort. It was underwritten by other insurers. And was within the cap. So if the govt could make it work, State Farm left because the profit/risk ratio was not good enough.

2 weeks before the fires, the Govt allowed underwriting. Just no one had the chance to take it back up again.

You think insurance companies aren't there to make money? And they will not walk if they do not make enough money or the risks are too great?

 

[Doogie]

FAIR plan.

California FAIR Plan

www.insurance.ca.gov

Man - be good to have a natural disaster to hear about without all the accompanying bullshit.

 

[EL Hefe]

Fox News? How about Politico.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/california-playbook/2025/01/09/where-in-the-world-was-karen-bass-00197243

Reliable?

Politico Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates Politico, which covers politics and policy in America and across the world, as neutral/balanced in terms of bias and most reliable ...

adfontesmedia.com

Fox News reliability?

Fox News Website Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates the Fox News website, as skews right in terms of bias and as mixed reliability in ...

adfontesmedia.com

And lets not question the interwebs algorithm for your type of ads.

Who else would you like to see?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/09/us/mayor-karen-bass-la-fires-criticism/index.html

Los Angeles cut $17.5M from fire department budget months before deadly fires

Seven months before the uncontrolled Palisades Fire in Los Angeles, the city's fire department budget for this fiscal year was cut by more than $17.5 million, records show.

abc11.com

Keep clutching at dem pearls, it's all going to come out in an inquiry

 

[Kaz]

it would help ease the situation though

It actually wouldn't

 

[The New Legacy]

You think insurance companies aren't there to make money? And they will not walk if they do not make enough money or the risks are too great?

It’s all about money, they pulled out of California because the risk was high and that means money lost by them due to the risk.

Looking at it from a business standpoint I get their reasoning to do so, no different to people being rejected for car insurance because they are prone to claims.

 

[Doogie]

Who else would you like to see?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/09/us/mayor-karen-bass-la-fires-criticism/index.html

Los Angeles cut $17.5M from fire department budget months before deadly fires

Seven months before the uncontrolled Palisades Fire in Los Angeles, the city's fire department budget for this fiscal year was cut by more than $17.5 million, records show.

abc11.com

Keep clutching at dem pearls, it's all going to come out in an inquiry

How about trying the LA CC records from November approving the increase in budget?

24-1334 (CFMS)

Click on attachment and the full deal is there. In November. As was pointed out above.