News Josh Morris upset by Cronulla’s refusal to release him to join Roosters

[Alan79]

I completely understand that in the eyes of every other clubs' fan we'll be guilty until proven innocent and that we'll never be proven innocent while ever we have success. The only thing that will satiate other fans is our failure. But you have to understand that this is the same for every fan of every successful sporting franchise across the globe. I'm sure fans of the New England Patriots are passionate in their defence of their winning franchise. As are fans of FC Bayern Munich, Man United, etc. When the Dallas Cowboys were THE franchise of the NFL, fans of every other club wanted to nuke Dallas.

In an example of irony, my first post on the Kennel was a celebration of your clubs recent failures as I remember when you were the club to be feared, a winning franchise and every one else wanted you to fail.

And we'll disagree on your cycle theory. Melbourne have demonstrated a club can recover from being caught systematically cheating the cap yet remain a powerhouse within the comp. And my theory behind that is Craig Bellemy is the cotter pin for that club. Remove him and it's in free fall. Same can be said for Politis at the Roosters and more recently Robinson. Another example is the Broncos. Everyone thought they were a highly professional club, well run, hugely successful, yet they've never looked like being a powerhouse since Bennett left for the Dragons in what was it 08-09? Anyway I digress.

I will defend my club as it's my club. Let me ask you this, if I came here as a supposed Rooster supporter and didn't defend my club, would I be looked as a piss weak supporter by many on here? I think so.

Not every other fan is going to assume that the Roosters are cap cheats. Bradyk for instance buys the idea that multiple players will take up to 2-300k less to play for a club where they're a chance of winning a premiership. But this kind of idea reinforces the suspicion to most people here. You may get the occasional player that will value loyalty to a big extent, but the Roosters regularly claim that most of their big name signings do.

I think our decline as a club was as a result of hubris from the board and a coach that thought he could turn coal into diamonds with some of his signings. I like to think we're on the way back up with our focus on rebuilding strong foundations with junior investment and a focus on getting players with the right value sets here. Perhaps it's hubris on my part to believe that it will all play out well when we aren't just throwing cash at our roster deficiencies.

I think Melbourne are starting to gain some momentum in a downhill slide to be honest. They aren't keeping everyone they want anymore and last year was arguably one of their least dominant seasons in many years. And they've still got quality players eying off the exit sign. As I said it only takes one pissed off employee in a key position to spill the beans and things can fall apart quickly. It might just be something completely out of the blue. I look at an incident like the fact that someone leaked the Napa sex tapes 22 seconds after he left the club as an example of how damaging one person with a little knowledge and a grievance can be.

And I already said that I don't blame you for wanting to think the best of your club, that goes for defending it too. But I also know something about human nature and I don't think that quite as many players are willing to play for significantly less money as you are willing to believe. I didn't want to believe our club had breached the cap when we got caught either. I tend to be long winded with my posts, bit the main point I was trying to make is that you can't lure rep level players to the club regularly without sparking suspicion and you as a fan will just have to cop that suspicion on the chin rather than think you can change people's perceptions.

 

[KambahOne]

Not every other fan is going to assume that the Roosters are cap cheats. Bradyk for instance buys the idea that multiple players will take up to 2-300k less to play for a club where they're a chance of winning a premiership. But this kind of idea reinforces the suspicion to most people here. You may get the occasional player that will value loyalty to a big extent, but the Roosters regularly claim that most of their big name signings do.

I think our decline as a club was as a result of hubris from the board and a coach that thought he could turn coal into diamonds with some of his signings. I like to think we're on the way back up with our focus on rebuilding strong foundations with junior investment and a focus on getting players with the right value sets here. Perhaps it's hubris on my part to believe that it will all play out well when we aren't just throwing cash at our roster deficiencies.

I think Melbourne are starting to gain some momentum in a downhill slide to be honest. They aren't keeping everyone they want anymore and last year was arguably one of their least dominant seasons in many years. And they've still got quality players eying off the exit sign. As I said it only takes one pissed off employee in a key position to spill the beans and things can fall apart quickly. It might just be something completely out of the blue. I look at an incident like the fact that someone leaked the Napa sex tapes 22 seconds after he left the club as an example of how damaging one person with a little knowledge and a grievance can be.

And I already said that I don't blame you for wanting to think the best of your club, that goes for defending it too. But I also know something about human nature and I don't think that quite as many players are willing to play for significantly less money as you are willing to believe. I didn't want to believe our club had breached the cap when we got caught either. I tend to be long winded with my posts, bit the main point I was trying to make is that you can't lure rep level players to the club regularly without sparking suspicion and you as a fan will just have to cop that suspicion on the chin rather than think you can change people's perceptions.

Some valid points. As I've said before, I'm under no illusion that we don't game the system. If you look at where our current top squad is (Barcelona) in preparation for the WCC, they've attended a local soccer match, saw the sights and done some training at one of the local clubs facilities and from the pics appear to be really enjoying themselves. We did something similar last year when we took the squad to visit and pay respects at the Somme before heading to the WCC. These types of activities (in the same vein as camps) bond the players together, build loyalty towards the club and give the players experiences they may not ordinarily get. And as you would know, it's human nature to want to repay to those that do right by you. It's not a stretch to assume some of our players want to repay the club for these experiences.

Now before anyone asks, are these sojourns part of the cap or should they be? I don't know. And before all and sundry claim it should be, wouldn't you want your club to have the same opportunity to give it's players the same sorts of experiences and celebration after winning a comp and as part of the first steps at a tilt at the next one? I can safely say without fear of contradiction, what we do as a club is better than a drunken Mad Monday.

 

[Alan79]

Some valid points. As I've said before, I'm under no illusion that we don't game the system. If you look at where our current top squad is (Barcelona) in preparation for the WCC, they've attended a local soccer match, saw the sights and done some training at one of the local clubs facilities and from the pics appear to be really enjoying themselves. We did something similar last year when we took the squad to visit and pay respects at the Somme before heading to the WCC. These types of activities (in the same vein as camps) bond the players together, build loyalty towards the club and give the players experiences they may not ordinarily get. And as you would know, it's human nature to want to repay to those that do right by you. It's not a stretch to assume some of our players want to repay the club for these experiences.

Now before anyone asks, are these sojourns part of the cap or should they be? I don't know. And before all and sundry claim it should be, wouldn't you want your club to have the same opportunity to give it's players the same sorts of experiences and celebration after winning a comp and as part of the first steps at a tilt at the next one? I can safely say without fear of contradiction, what we do as a club is better than a drunken Mad Monday.

I'm not going to go backwards and forwards on this. I respect your opinions. You are among a small minority of opposition fans that come here who can offer sensible conversation as opposed to just tossing crap and trying to troll. But I think you do have the loyalty goggles on regardless. A rep level player such as Tobasco can buy a lot of trips to anywhere in the world on the money he supposedly sacrificed to join the Chickens and he's not the only one that is reputedly there on significantly less than he could earn elsewhere. Team bonding experiences are indeed valuable. Klemmer developed a bromance with Woods on origin camps and those weren't even in exciting locations. But experience has given me the perspective that loyalty has it's limits. Guys like Mark O'Meley, Steve Price, Micheal Ennis and Josh Reynolds were all very loyal and still left when the financial factor became an issue. And no doubt players such as Pearce being pushed out when your club sees a better option available can negate some of the loyalty factor for the friends he has within the club.

At the end of the day, if the Roosters are cheating, eventually someone will expose it inadvertently or through spite. Let's just agree to sit on opposite sides of the fence on this issue and leave it at that.

 

[KambahOne]

I'm not going to go backwards and forwards on this. I respect your opinions. You are among a small minority of opposition fans that come here who can offer sensible conversation as opposed to just tossing crap and trying to troll. But I think you do have the loyalty goggles on regardless. A rep level player such as Tobasco can buy a lot of trips to anywhere in the world on the money he supposedly sacrificed to join the Chickens and he's not the only one that is reputedly there on significantly less than he could earn elsewhere. Team bonding experiences are indeed valuable. Klemmer developed a bromance with Woods on origin camps and those weren't even in exciting locations. But experience has given me the perspective that loyalty has it's limits. Guys like Mark O'Meley, Steve Price, Micheal Ennis and Josh Reynolds were all very loyal and still left when the financial factor became an issue. And no doubt players such as Pearce being pushed out when your club sees a better option available can negate some of the loyalty factor for the friends he has within the club.

At the end of the day, if the Roosters are cheating, eventually someone will expose it inadvertently or through spite. Let's just agree to sit on opposite sides of the fence on this issue and leave it at that.

Done.

 

[wendog33]

Poor josh, he'll always be known as the twin who never won a comp. Maybe he could buy a premiership ring off his bro and say it's his

The irony is if JMoz had stayed with us for the higher paying one year contract he was offered, he would now be on his way to the Rorters.

Bad decision there.

"Apparently" got paid less money last year at Sharks as he "apparently" signed for less to improve his premiership chances.

Is now a fill in fullback in that position he doesn't like playing.

If he had of backed himself with a one year extn with us, he could have shown everyone he was still a great player and had a few teams vying for him.

Instead left us and took a lesser amount for 2 years. Not sorry for him somehow.

 

[Alan79]

The irony is if JMoz had stayed with us for the higher paying one year contract he was offered, he would now be on his way to the Rorters.

Bad decision there.

"Apparently" got paid less money last year at Sharks as he "apparently" signed for less to improve his premiership chances.

Is now a fill in fullback in that position he doesn't like playing.

If he had of backed himself with a one year extn with us, he could have shown everyone he was still a great player and had a few teams vying for him. for

Instead left us and took a lesser amount for 2 years. Not sorry for him somehow.

My respect for him wained a little when he began to make some critical comments about our club after we treated him well for many years. I appreciate the good things he did here. But late in his career I saw some selfish acts from him like the fact that he had a ligament removed as opposed to the full reconstruction of a knee to rush back for an origin fixture that ended his season. I can't blame a player for wanting a 30 grand payday for an origin game. But it left a big hole in our roster for the season to follow. This seems like a similar thing in some ways.

 

[Howard Moon]

at first I was like, Let him go, he's getting on and they have plenty of outside backs... now it's like, mate, it's one thing to ask for a release, but don't go whinging in the media if it's not granted, seeing as you signed the contract

 

[wendog33]

My respect for him wained a little when he began to make some critical comments about our club after we treated him well for many years. I appreciate the good things he did here. But late in his career I saw some selfish acts from him like the fact that he had a ligament removed as opposed to the full reconstruction of a knee to rush back for an origin fixture that ended his season. I can't blame a player for wanting a 30 grand payday for an origin game. But it left a big hole in our roster for the season to follow. This seems like a similar thing in some ways.

Got to agree (from all we hear from the media).

Seriously is this public dummy spit worse, the same, or less than Latrell's?

On a par to me.

I don't care. Up to him how he puts his reputation on the line but in hindsight he should have signed with us for one year. More money. Then backed himself to get another contract after that for this year.

Sharks fans would be disapppointed I guess. He signed with the club who gave a 32 year old a 2 year contract. Now his brother is his main criteria.

These players sure do puzzle me.

 

[surfdog]

While not a fan of the Sharks, they have every right to not release a contracted player, especially when you have Moylan/dugan/Johnson who are all constantly injured.

 

[Mr. Ditkovich]

There was an article where it said Sharks gave him permission to look around in August.

If true, and they haven’t told him to stop looking, then Morris has a point.

 

[w00t]

I completely understand that in the eyes of every other clubs' fan we'll be guilty until proven innocent and that we'll never be proven innocent while ever we have success. The only thing that will satiate other fans is our failure. But you have to understand that this is the same for every fan of every successful sporting franchise across the globe. I'm sure fans of the New England Patriots are passionate in their defence of their winning franchise. As are fans of FC Bayern Munich, Man United, etc. When the Dallas Cowboys were THE franchise of the NFL, fans of every other club wanted to nuke Dallas.

In an example of irony, my first post on the Kennel was a celebration of your clubs recent failures as I remember when you were the club to be feared, a winning franchise and every one else wanted you to fail.

And we'll disagree on your cycle theory. Melbourne have demonstrated a club can recover from being caught systematically cheating the cap yet remain a powerhouse within the comp. And my theory behind that is Craig Bellemy is the cotter pin for that club. Remove him and it's in free fall. Same can be said for Politis at the Roosters and more recently Robinson. Another example is the Broncos. Everyone thought they were a highly professional club, well run, hugely successful, yet they've never looked like being a powerhouse since Bennett left for the Dragons in what was it 08-09? Anyway I digress.

I will defend my club as it's my club. Let me ask you this, if I came here as a supposed Rooster supporter and didn't defend my club, would I be looked as a piss weak supporter by many on here? I think so.

I have never, ever, ever liked the salary cap and think it is extremely detrimental to the game. Listing franchises from football(soccer) are sort of redundant as they don't exactly have much of salary cap and the top teams generally always stay at the top barring special seasons.

Melbourne recovered well because they built their entire team around their spine of Smith, Cronk and Slater whom for the better part of a decade were the absolute best spine in the competition, and they then just filled the rest of their squad with decent players and it all comes together, they also had an incredible amount of luck as Smith, Cronk and Slater are not even remotely injury prone. Their era is now close to the end as Smith is the only remaining guy there.

The Roosters are an example of what happens when you have someone worth half a billion dollars backing you. They're not likely to ever to be investigated because Nick would never allow that to happen. The only chance of that changing is when he's no longer around, it's also substantially easier to skirt the cap when you literally can funnel the money to any said player from a million and one different companies that are not linked to the club.

 

[wendog33]

I have never, ever, ever liked the salary cap and think it is extremely detrimental to the game. Listing franchises from football(soccer) are sort of redundant as they don't exactly have much of salary cap and the top teams generally always stay at the top barring special seasons.

Melbourne recovered well because they built their entire team around their spine of Smith, Cronk and Slater whom for the better part of a decade were the absolute best spine in the competition, and they then just filled the rest of their squad with decent players and it all comes together, they also had an incredible amount of luck as Smith, Cronk and Slater are not even remotely injury prone. Their era is now close to the end as Smith is the only remaining guy there.

The Roosters are an example of what happens when you have someone worth half a billion dollars backing you. They're not likely to ever to be investigated because Nick would never allow that to happen. The only chance of that changing is when he's no longer around, it's also substantially easier to skirt the cap when you literally can funnel the money to any said player from a million and one different companies that are not linked to the club.

^^ Best explanation yet.

Todd and the NRLol would be totally beholding to Politis. He would essentially run the game through subtle kickbacks, payoffs, sponsorships, mates company lobbying and advertising and links and friendships with all media owners and influencers.

Their time in the limelight won't be getting any duller or waning, or exposed, until Politis himself is gone and then all those with a grievance against the guy will come out of the woodwork.

 

[Flanagun]

Some valid points. As I've said before, I'm under no illusion that we don't game the system. If you look at where our current top squad is (Barcelona) in preparation for the WCC, they've attended a local soccer match, saw the sights and done some training at one of the local clubs facilities and from the pics appear to be really enjoying themselves. We did something similar last year when we took the squad to visit and pay respects at the Somme before heading to the WCC. These types of activities (in the same vein as camps) bond the players together, build loyalty towards the club and give the players experiences they may not ordinarily get. And as you would know, it's human nature to want to repay to those that do right by you. It's not a stretch to assume some of our players want to repay the club for these experiences.

Now before anyone asks, are these sojourns part of the cap or should they be? I don't know. And before all and sundry claim it should be, wouldn't you want your club to have the same opportunity to give it's players the same sorts of experiences and celebration after winning a comp and as part of the first steps at a tilt at the next one? I can safely say without fear of contradiction, what we do as a club is better than a drunken Mad Monday.

I’m all for uncle Nick providing his squad
With once in a lifetime experiences. In fact, I’m suggesting he should send them to Antarctica for five or six months some time this March. I hear it’s a great place to get a good sun tan.

Seriously, players are just cattle to Nick Politi(c)s. He’s proven that on so many occasions when he has had the chance to show loyalty to long term players and has let them go in order to chase some up end coming or well established superstar he should be in no position to afford. I don’t see why players should feel particularly honour bound to him.... a trip to Barcelona to watch football is nice and all, but I don’t think many players would choose it over an extra few hundred k to help them support their families.

I do not buy the argument everything is above board there. Their roster is a total piss take, IMO.

 

[KambahOne]

The Roosters are an example of what happens when you have someone worth half a billion dollars backing you. They're not likely to ever to be investigated because Nick would never allow that to happen. The only chance of that changing is when he's no longer around, it's also substantially easier to skirt the cap when you literally can funnel the money to any said player from a million and one different companies that are not linked to the club.

Plenty of other clubs have had rich benefactors over the years. The Broncos are owned by News Corpse and Melbourne were for years. The Warriors have had Eric Watson in their corner for a decade. Nathan Tinkler and the Naughts. You have the Gordon family and their ownership of Saint Merge. The West Tigers have Harry Triguboff. Manly have the Penns. Having a financial benefactor is not a new concept.

 

[Trafford10]

Not every other fan is going to assume that the Roosters are cap cheats. Bradyk for instance buys the idea that multiple players will take up to 2-300k less to play for a club where they're a chance of winning a premiership. But this kind of idea reinforces the suspicion to most people here. You may get the occasional player that will value loyalty to a big extent, but the Roosters regularly claim that most of their big name signings do.

I think our decline as a club was as a result of hubris from the board and a coach that thought he could turn coal into diamonds with some of his signings. I like to think we're on the way back up with our focus on rebuilding strong foundations with junior investment and a focus on getting players with the right value sets here. Perhaps it's hubris on my part to believe that it will all play out well when we aren't just throwing cash at our roster deficiencies.

I think Melbourne are starting to gain some momentum in a downhill slide to be honest. They aren't keeping everyone they want anymore and last year was arguably one of their least dominant seasons in many years. And they've still got quality players eying off the exit sign. As I said it only takes one pissed off employee in a key position to spill the beans and things can fall apart quickly. It might just be something completely out of the blue. I look at an incident like the fact that someone leaked the Napa sex tapes 22 seconds after he left the club as an example of how damaging one person with a little knowledge and a grievance can be.

And I already said that I don't blame you for wanting to think the best of your club, that goes for defending it too. But I also know something about human nature and I don't think that quite as many players are willing to play for significantly less money as you are willing to believe. I didn't want to believe our club had breached the cap when we got caught either. I tend to be long winded with my posts, bit the main point I was trying to make is that you can't lure rep level players to the club regularly without sparking suspicion and you as a fan will just have to cop that suspicion on the chin rather than think you can change people's perceptions.

Where do you think we will finish the 2020 season ladder wise?
Also with regard to Melbourne (and I hate them because I live in Melbourne) would love to see them out of the top 8.
Roosters? they are dodgy & the NRL salary cap if a fucking joke.

 

[fireclust]

A lot of teams exceed the cap and many a times they don’t get found out. Roosters might well be doing dodgy deals but until someone blows the whistle we’ll never know - and even then Greenturd would try and sweep it under the rug. Either way, fuck the Roosters and good luck to them, I’m looking forward to watching Dogs rise back to the top in the next few years.

As for JMoz, love the bloke, great player, but he should know the value of signing a contract, especially by now. It would be a fairytale for him, finish with his brother and a last shot at a premiership so I can’t blame him for wanting out but you signed the deal hombre you gotta see it through. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Alan79]

Where do you think we will finish the 2020 season ladder wise?
Also with regard to Melbourne (and I hate them because I live in Melbourne) would love to see them out of the top 8.
Roosters? they are dodgy & the NRL salary cap if a fucking joke.

Somewhere between 7-11. I think our finishing position will come down to whether they're able to stay composed from early in the season. Personally I think that the youngsters allowed every decision that went against them to add desperation to their play. Too little patience saw us shoot ourselves in the foot trying to score with every touch. More of our losses came from unforced errors last year than forced ones. So focusing on defence again might not make us the most exciting team to watch. But I think that it's crucial that the side builds pressure. Hopefully working with Sherwin has taught the halves a few extra sets can make a huge difference.

 

[The DoggFather]

The nrlol is a joke and the only way they will "bust" cheating teams is if someone snitches, just like all the other incidents that have occurred.

 

[KambahOne]

The nrlol is a joke and the only way they will "bust" cheating teams is if someone snitches, just like all the other incidents that have occurred.

Or they minute the details of the rort in their board meeting minutes ala Parra.

 

[w00t]

Plenty of other clubs have had rich benefactors over the years. The Broncos are owned by News Corpse and Melbourne were for years. The Warriors have had Eric Watson in their corner for a decade. Nathan Tinkler and the Naughts. You have the Gordon family and their ownership of Saint Merge. The West Tigers have Harry Triguboff. Manly have the Penns. Having a financial benefactor is not a new concept.

Politis is much more astute and has business interests all over the place and seems to understand the game far better than the rest. This isn't an attack on the Roosters per say but rather a very solid appraisal of the person you have backing you, a rich benefactor that is also very much in tune with the world. Not everyone that is immensely wealthy can jump between industries and end up successful. Tinkler is a prime example of a big failure and literally ran Newcastle into the ground. His political power in the game and his reach is far bigger than the other guys you mentioned

With regards to New Corps, well the two clubs you mentioned, one was completely done for rorting the caps and the Broncos are probably another club that you would consider one of the most successful. They had SOO teams for the better part of the early 2000s. This is probably an even bigger example of corporation as media companies also owning a franchise is quite literally the biggest conflict of interest. You're basically regulating yourself and the have faith there's no corruption there is absolutely ridiculous. I have never ever ever liked the Broncos for this reason

Australia's laws in this regard are FAR FAR FAR behind the rest the of the world