Indigenous voice to parliament

[Doogie]

Just shut up. You wanted me to ignore you which I did. You said you’d ignore me but didn’t. Even an old boomer bong head who spends a a few hours with a couple of aboriginals and thinks he’s Eddie Mabo can figure that out. I don’t make threats but sorry if you’re scared. You sound sensitivedog haha. Better get a wimpy soccer whistle & whistle for the mods hahaha

Lol - Mabo wasn't even an indigenous campaigner. Just an average Joe who won a court case on land rights.

Good that its not a threat though. I assume it was a joke then. Shame it wasn't a real threat though. That would be even funnier.

You keep on having your cheap slag offs - I'll keep responding. I haven't slagged u off at all yet your losing your shit. Fck I'm talented - can get in your head without even trying.

 

[Doogie]

You missed the points;

#1 If the Federal Government, State Government or Local Council asks the Voice how long does The Voice have to reply? A day, a week, a month, a year, 10 years? Currently there is a project in Nowra that has been waiting more than 10 years for a response from the local Aboriginal Council. That is far from unique and as the number of asks increases how many more projects will take much longer.

#2 What if the Federal Government, State Government or Local Council doesn't ask the Voice? And then some time after the project has started what happens if The Voice complains that they weren't asked and go to court to stop the project? I can name 10+ State roads projects that are currently stalled due waiting for local responses.

Plainly The Voice (in Canbra) is not all knowing and all seeing and hence is undoubtedly going to delegate the responsibility for providing responses to experts, locals, regional, elders, etc.

Why do you think building anything, everything, takes so long? The complex I am currently in took 13 months to actually build, but 8 years to get the permissions, The Voice is just another layer of bureaucracy when there are already far too many layers of it. An example, the Land & Environment Court in NSW carried out 1,959 conciliations in 2021, that's ~11 per day for every one of the ~180 days that the court sits.

Following is the process flowchart for Aboriginal Land Claims in NSW, there are at least 6 places where consultation with The Voice would have to be made;

View attachment 70152


How much more time is going to be wasted seeking responses?

Always a Bulldog

Think you're mixing a few different things together.

I've been involved previously with redeveloping a golf course in Sydney (I was on the board for it). Yep - same deal - we went through the first nations process and that ended up delaying the project by 3 years. And the issue was middens - basically the first nations version of a rubblish dump. So I know where you are coming from. Mind you you're cheating a bit, the approvals would have been environmental as well which may/may not have stretched your time frame for non first nations reasons. No idea - you weren't specific.

This knowledge of cases delayed - interesting. Cannot find anything about Nowra or State roads except they are being delayed due to rising construction costs and budget blowouts. And the 1959 L&E cases - how many of those were related to first nations?

A land claim is a process that can happen anytime where your development is very specific. So your flow chart and development, unless it occurs at the same time coincidently or its a green field which the LLC has been eyeing, is unlikely to coincide.

However does raise an interesting question about how a Federal initiative flows down to state and local. And this is where the bill is more important than the constitution. Pending the details of the Bill, it could be something like a framework guidance which, as a developer, I'm sure you're ok if you know what you need to do and when your need to do it. Now if its specific instruction, as you say, that could be very problematic.

As I've said before, the Voice doesn't actually do a lot except acknowledgement and providing a platform for first nations issues to be heard. What you do with what you've heard will be in the Bill and thats where the specifics are important. But the beauty of that is if its stupid or unworkable, Labor gets voted out, Libs get back in and can rewrite the Bill. And tbf - if the Voice gets up think that Bill is going to be complex and will take time to get right. And will become a political football.

So imo, I don't see the Voice being a problem 4 u specifically but the Bill may be. We don't know. The AG's advice was people would not be able to get their head around the Bill details prior to voting on the Voice and it may be dilute their understanding of what they are voting on in the referendum. Think thats fair.

And if you want to argue that you should have known the Bill details prior to the last election - think thats a fair complaint as well. Can also see why they went this way. Chicken and egg.

 

[Doogie]

Yep Mundine beat his wife so the Voice must be good.

Hoisted on your own petard.


Always a Bulldog

I gave reasons why Mundine is a political slut and Lib stooge and is just plain lying. Others pointed out Pearson says bad language so the Voice is bad.

No comment on that or are we preferential?

 

[Doogie]

Gotta love the government, the fkn vote hasn't even happened yet and it has already caused further division.

Bread and circuses.... carry on fighting between ourselves, focus on the left hand while the right hand fists us.

Last referendum in Australia was the republic referendum in 1999. Howard was in and it had bipartisan support. The decision was left to the Australian people. And the results would have had a much bigger impact on the average Australian than this does.

Yet this time around - less impacts but the Libs won't support it. Wonder why? Game playing....

Sometimes - you don't want to start a fight but you have no choice. You are right though about where the right hand is

 

[The DoggFather]

Last referendum in Australia was the republic referendum in 1999. Howard was in and it had bipartisan support. The decision was left to the Australian people. And the results would have had a much bigger impact on the average Australian than this does.

Yet this time around - less impacts but the Libs won't support it. Wonder why? Game playing....

Sometimes - you don't want to start a fight but you have no choice. You are right though about where the right hand is

It's like fkn kids arguing for the sake of arguing...

 

[Doogie]

It's like fkn kids arguing for the sake of arguing...

Hear ya. But think thats a reflection of the Libs. Labor just put it out - its what govts do. Yet the Libs opposed it. And even rolled out shirtfront Abbott.

Abbott couldn't even get a cooshy govt job he was so on the nose. So he's the sacrificial lamb.

 

[Natboy]

Gotta love the government, the fkn vote hasn't even happened yet and it has already caused further division.

That’s my main point with this all, the division. Noel Pearson loves the gravy train and doesn’t care about dividing people and Albo is too stupid to realise

 

[lukedog]

It's like fkn kids arguing for the sake of arguing...

What adds confusion is that the figureheads of the Yes and No campaigns are both Indigenous. Throw in Lydia Thorpe who is trying to form an Aboriginal Taliban, and comments from Tony Armstrong saying:

“I truly don’t know if it will be passed or not,” he confessed to Stellar’s Sarrah Le Marquand. “What I think people need to remember with the Voice is that a vote for ‘yes’ and a vote for ‘no’ can both be good things.

We keep getting told "listen to the Aboriginals, they are the only voices who matter on this issue," but that doesn't seem to be helping. I can't wait for the normies to start talking about this. Will be incredible banter.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

You missed the points;

#1 If the Federal Government, State Government or Local Council asks the Voice how long does The Voice have to reply? A day, a week, a month, a year, 10 years? Currently there is a project in Nowra that has been waiting more than 10 years for a response from the local Aboriginal Council. That is far from unique and as the number of asks increases how many more projects will take much longer.

#2 What if the Federal Government, State Government or Local Council doesn't ask the Voice? And then some time after the project has started what happens if The Voice complains that they weren't asked and go to court to stop the project? I can name 10+ State roads projects that are currently stalled due waiting for local responses.

Plainly The Voice (in Canbra) is not all knowing and all seeing and hence is undoubtedly going to delegate the responsibility for providing responses to experts, locals, regional, elders, etc.

Why do you think building anything, everything, takes so long? The complex I am currently in took 13 months to actually build, but 8 years to get the permissions, The Voice is just another layer of bureaucracy when there are already far too many layers of it. An example, the Land & Environment Court in NSW carried out 1,959 conciliations in 2021, that's ~11 per day for every one of the ~180 days that the court sits.

Following is the process flowchart for Aboriginal Land Claims in NSW, there are at least 6 places where consultation with The Voice would have to be made;

View attachment 70152


How much more time is going to be wasted seeking responses?

Always a Bulldog

Kind of finding it odd that this has been pointed out to you multiple times and you're ignoring the responses. Almost like you don't care about facts. You just want to win an argument.

This is like listening to your climate change denial all over again.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

It's like fkn kids arguing for the sake of arguing...

Ignore my last post. ASSASSIN says it better than I could.

 

[Nate DAWG]

I’ve always supported the voice cause I’ve felt that the Aboriginal people deserve recognition, especially when you consider the history of this country. It is interesting that I have seen more and more Aboriginal people arguing against the voice. Very different reasons to the discussion in here though. Some feel it is a tokenistic system being implemented by government to control, some what sovereignty acknowledged, some want treaty. Most don’t trust government. Do we have any Aboriginal members on the kennel? I’m not sure how wide spread the support for the voice is.

 

[Natboy]

Did you know he was raised by a single parent and was a houso?

Who could predict that he’d be giving extra money to single mothers on welfare just like his mum was in tomorrow nights budget hahaha

 

[Foxalldayeveryday]

Who could predict that he’d be giving extra money to single mothers on welfare just like his mum was in tomorrow nights budget hahaha

It's just so fucking obvious what this flog is all about. He will go dowm as the worst prick to ever lead thiw country.

 

[Natboy]

It's just so fucking obvious what this flog is all about. He will go dowm as the worst prick to ever lead thiw country.

I agree, he must be very close already

 

[The DoggFather]

It's just so fucking obvious what this flog is all about. He will go dowm as the worst prick to ever lead thiw country.

The cuck has a lot of competition...

 

[GoTheDoggies]

So the budget is pretty much a disaster for working Australians or at least that is how it is being interpreted.

 

[GoTheDoggies]

I don’t think we will ever recover from the budget blow outs no matter which government is in charge.

The Covid response was a complete farce that we won’t recover from, all the inflation and record debt is due to the economic response to shutting down the country.

Expect more inflation and rate hikes. The politicians we have now are mostly clowns, everything they touch they fuck up. Best example, they created the housing crisis by increasing immigration to unsustainable levels.

 

[Natboy]

So the budget is pretty much a disaster for working Australians or at least that is how it is being interpreted.

Yep, it’s great if you’re a bludger or fit the mould of Albo’s parents but not so good for people that actually work and pay tax

 

[Bad Billy]

Languages, cultures, sustainable land management systems.

Sustainable land management systems?
lol.
there was half a million of them on a whole continent. They just did what they wanted. There was no way they could impact the county on an environmental level.
Every civilization has language and culture.
I wonder if Peru has an “Inca voice to parliament”?

 

[Flanagun]

Sustainable land management systems?
lol.
there was half a million of them on a whole continent. They just did what they wanted. There was no way they could impact the county on an environmental level.
Every civilization has language and culture.
I wonder if Peru has an “Inca voice to parliament”?

Scoff if you like, but the fact is they developed systems which sustained them and maintained ecological balance for well over 50,000 years. The agricultural revolution started about 12000 years ago and the Industrial Revolution less than 300 years ago. In that time humans have over hunted, over fished and destroyed natural habitats of numerous species, pushing many which aren’t even primary food sources to the brink of extinction, or over the brink in some cases.

There were an estimated 320,000 Aboriginal people in Australia at the time of settlement… they had no livestock, no imported animals bred for purpose. Of course they could have done serious ecological damage if they had over hunted in certain areas… or at certain times such as just before breeding seasons.

Populations were much smaller globally in the age of Hunter gatherer societies. Farming allowed us to produce more grain per unit, which led to an exponential increase in breeding. This doesn’t mean Homo sapiens weren’t able to do a lot of ecological damage prior to the agricultural revolution. Sapiens in all likelihood wiped out all other species of humans while still living in hunter gatherer societies… not to mention hastening the extinction of animals such as woolly mammoths. As soon as we learnt to create myths and cultures we became deadly. Every animal plays an important ecological role in the natural environment, so to suggest Aboriginals couldn’t have damaged this country’s natural environment if they didn’t tend to it responsibly is just ignorant.

Aboriginals conducted strategic traditional burnings of bush land, they sowed and stored plants, they hunted selectively taking care not to over hunt on certain areas. Any anthropologist who has studied pre colonial Aboriginal societies will tell you this. But hey, how can the knowledge of experts stack up to that of a conservatively minded individual with a chip on his shoulder and an internet connection?

As for your Inca voice comment, that’s just ludicrous. Because the Spanish wiped out an ancient civilisation in the 1500s, Aboriginal people shouldn’t have a direct route to parliament to make representations about matters relating to their own communities? That’s just ludicrous, dude.