How we conceded tries against the Tigers

[Straight18]

You just have to look at who we've lost and who we've gained.

Give it up hes got u covered again brad

 

[bradyk]

Give it up hes got u covered again brad

What he's saying doesn't add up. I don't want to repeat myself for you so read what I wrote and go look for yourself.

 

[_G-Dog_]

1st Try
1. Error (drop ball) - Wakeham
2. Two slow props in cover defence/broken play

Bullshit try - Wakeham blunder

2nd Try
1. No kick pressure on Brooks - RFM lazy at marker jogging, Britt jogging
2. Error (drop ball) - Holland

Bullshit try - Holland blunder

3rd Try
1. Foran flys in, isn't a dominant tackle
2. Miss tackle - Sue
3. This is ridiculous, one of RFM or Foran had to wrap up the ball

Bullshit try - how can't four defenders stop a player having a second dig when already over the try line? The ball is the most important thing when over the line...

4th Try
1. Penalty (high tackle) - Foran (Nofaluma ducked into it - bullshit penalty)
2. Holland and DWZ probably should of done better there, Talau still had a lot of work to do

Game over at this point

5th Try
1. Intercept - Foran, all or nothing play

6th Try
1. Wakeham falls for the worst dummy ever by Brooks, gives the Tigers ~50 metres.
2. Players out of position/offside, bad read/tackle by Foran who's on the wing - didn't trust Elliott on Leilua

7th Try
1. Penalty (high tackle) - Napa
2. Six again penalty - DWZ
3. Bad tackle by JMK (who had support from Holland), playing out of position, out muscled by Doueihi

I'd also like to add that we completely lost the ruck. Too many quick play the balls from the Tigers and Grant took advantage of that and carved us up. We also had no ball, especially in the final third so we didn't even get to see an attack.

Losing our most influential player in attack/scoring tries this season a couple of minutes in was also a massive blow. We also had to reshuffle our team. DWZ was also last man in defence on a couple of the tries, we know Hopoate is better defensively.

Overall the result and scoreline wasn't good enough. A couple of bullshit tries at the start really set the scene.

If you have something constructive to add (I can miss things) you can post in the comments.

The Broncos can say the same thing.. i actually thought all the Gold Coast trys in first half to lead 22-0 were BS:
1) Taylor try from dummy half - poor 1 on 1
2) Knock on/forward pass try
3) Bris FB dropped bomb GC picked up and scored
4) Intercept on HT
= 22-0 at HT

 

[BondiBulldog]

From memory it's a few more than 2 or 3;
Foran, back ended contract, not signed in Pay's time
Tolman, back ended contract not signed in Pay's time
Montoya, not signed in Pay's time
Elliott, not signed in Pay's time
Holland, not signed in Pay's time
Plus as far as I know Wakeham and RFM had agreed to contract extensions before Pay was appointed but they were announced afterwards

Although they weren't playing for us in 2018/19/20 we were still possibly paying part of Mbye, Reynolds, Woods and Graham which severely limited how much we could spend whilst still registering 30 players (ie; we had to recruit cheapies to fill the spots). It's easy to claim that we didn't sign any quality players, but the reason for that is we couldn't fit them in the Cap. Which is exactly what we were told would happen until it was cleared in 2021.

Go Dogs

Hmmm.. pretty sure we’re not putting a beano towards Reynolds.

 

[bradyk]

The Broncos can say the same thing.. i actually thought all the Gold Coast trys in first half to lead 22-0 were BS:
1) Taylor try from dummy half - poor 1 on 1
2) Knock on/forward pass try
3) Bris FB dropped bomb GC picked up and scored
4) Intercept on HT
= 22-0 at HT

I remember the Broncos didn't play to the whistle for one of the tries, I think it was the second one. Even if you think it's 100% a knock on you have to play to the whistle because it's really 99%.

 

[Dogtime]

Looks like players who lack good coaching.

Players forgetting to play a game and too worked up. All the coaching in the world is useless if the players collectively play as if they are scared to make a mistake.

 

[ash160]

We lost the ruck, tigers running riot through our middle. I can’t understand why we can never get dominant tackles...is it our training? We get bent back like pussies every game.....for years!

 

[DinkumDog]

Whoopty doo....they have taken great mileage out of this.
So manly had back ended deals, that hasler left them with, yet they were still competitive, made semi finals, didn't make a big frigging deal about it...but see they have successful international businessmen running their joint

When was it said Manly were left with back-ended deals when Hasler first left?
Their cap problems came much later and were much less significant.

He had a stacked squad which won two premierships. He tried the same trick with us and failed.

Out of the 7 seasons he didn’t coach there they missed the finals 3 times.

As for ‘international businessman’ at the helm - how do you explain 9 CEO’s in 15 years? That club is notorious for infighting, factions and problems - but anything to twist an argument eh Teddy? .

 

[DinkumDog]

Millions over....rubbish, pure speculation and scaremongering by the current board.
Dib estimated the cap was going to be 10.5M as per previous discussions with the Nrl, that number was definitely mooted by the nrl but not ratified in the end.

Well that’s at least 1.1m over isn’t it, given that the 2018 cap ended up being 9.4m. But no problem there I take it, because it was ‘mooted’ .

 

[TwinTurbo]

You know I was only out by 9% or 6%. So much shame I know I’ll try and be better.

It was actually 100%, you need to try really hard and be much better

Go Dogs

 

[TwinTurbo]

Roosters lose Tedesco, Morris, Radley and Verrills on game day and still had players filled in. Even if we had those 4in our team we would still get flogged.
The Cap is not the problem, following on from this boards direction and Haslers structures plus Cleals recruitment is at fault.

But they still had Manu, Topou, Keary, JWH, Taukeiaho (that's hard to spell), Cordner, Crichton and Friend. That's how many international and/or SOO players? Compared to nil, zip zilch, diddly squat, SFA that we have.

How do you think they fit those players in and we can't (sombrero and brown paper bags aside)? The Cap is absolutely the problem, from which we get some relief next year.

Go Dogs

 

[Superuber]

But they still had Manu, Topou, Keary, JWH, Taukeiaho (that's hard to spell), Cordner, Crichton and Friend. That's how many international and/or SOO players? Compared to nil, zip zilch, diddly squat, SFA that we have.

How do you think they fit those players in and we can't (sombrero and brown paper bags aside)? The Cap is absolutely the problem, from which we get some relief next year.

Go Dogs

Wrong, the players I’ve mentioned plus the ones you have absolutely proves that the Cap excuse this board relies on is a lie. How do we not even have at least 25% of the qualities they do. The players mentioned total 11 for the roosters, how is 4 quality players that the supposed repaired cap for next years going to get anywhere near the others clubs. Our problem is not money it’s the stupid structures and recruitment policies started by Hasler. The previous board got rid of him but only after it was too late to save them. The Anderson led board do not have the credentials that previous board had, they fixed nothing player wise and are the ones responsible for damaging the brand.

There is no way in hell they can hide behind the Cap situation and justify the roster we have. We were deficient in certain positions which they failed to strengthen so we can at least remain competitive. I’m not asking that we have superstars in every position but where we were lacking they didn’t recruit.

We all know in hindsight that the power Hasler had been given was wrong but that’s a lesson learned to never do it again, remember we had Tedesco, Moses and Woods coming only for Hasler to veto it for Foran. If we had them in the squad plus a decent hooker can you imagine the squad that’s could have been built around that in the 4 years since.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Wrong, the players I’ve mentioned plus the ones you have absolutely proves that the Cap excuse this board relies on is a lie. How do we not even have at least 25% of the qualities they do. The players mentioned total 11 for the roosters, how is 4 quality players that the supposed repaired cap for next years going to get anywhere near the others clubs. Our problem is not money it’s the stupid structures and recruitment policies started by Hasler. The previous board got rid of him but only after it was too late to save them. The Anderson led board do not have the credentials that previous board had, they fixed nothing player wise and are the ones responsible for damaging the brand.

There is no way in hell they can hide behind the Cap situation and justify the roster we have. We were deficient in certain positions which they failed to strengthen so we can at least remain competitive. I’m not asking that we have superstars in every position but where we were lacking they didn’t recruit.

We all know in hindsight that the power Hasler had been given was wrong but that’s a lesson learned to never do it again, remember we had Tedesco, Moses and Woods coming only for Hasler to veto it for Foran. If we had them in the squad plus a decent hooker can you imagine the squad that’s could have been built around that in the 4 years since.

Our problem isn't money, we have plenty (Covid-19 notwithstanding), our problem is Cap space versus the mandated 30 players. The Chooks Cap system runs much like Melbourne's, they have a core of around 1/3 of their roster (~10 out of 30) with quality players. Then ~1/3rd with up and coming players, not many locals, but players they recruit early in their careers. Then the final 1/3rd that are "roster fillers", second string, can fill in when required, not used all that often, can be moved on easily. As I posted previously they rotate around 1/3rd of their roster every year (eg; there is 9 off contract this and 11 next year). This roster is then aligned with a Cap structure that uses a bit over 1/2 the Cap on the first 10 players, then splits around a 1/4 each between the other 20 players.

This strategic use of the roster and the Cap (whether it's the above method or another) takes years to put in place, once in place it is much easier to maintain. You are absolutely correct Hasler drastically distorted the roster and it has taken 3 years to cleanse it. Next year is our first year without 4 or 5 players taking up almost 1/2 of our cap, a couple of years of that paying players not even playing for us. Which is what makes it impossible to achieve a balance ie; we have had to recruit ~25 low cost players which almost always means a goodly proportion of fringe NRL level players at best.

Make no mistake, as a long time a very long time Bulldogs supporter, I'm dying here, it's killing me 80 minutes at a time, but I am also realistic enough to recognise how deep in the shit we were and that it takes time to climb out of it. Which is exactly what we were told.


Go Dogs

 

[Bazildog]

But they still had Manu, Topou, Keary, JWH, Taukeiaho (that's hard to spell), Cordner, Crichton and Friend. That's how many international and/or SOO players? Compared to nil, zip zilch, diddly squat, SFA that we have.

How do you think they fit those players in and we can't (sombrero and brown paper bags aside)? The Cap is absolutely the problem, from which we get some relief next year.

Go Dogs

Only because you enjoy a good correction yourself.. But, Jackson, DWZ, Foran, and Hoppa have all represented their country's (Australia, NZ and Tonga) and Hoppa, Jackson and Nappa are all ex S.O.O players so not exactly Nil, Zilch, didley squat etc.

I would probably go further and ask why are they still not playing S.O.O and when did they start to go off the boil form wise that took them out of representative calculation??

 

[TwinTurbo]

Only because you enjoy a good correction yourself.. But, Jackson, DWZ, Foran, and Hoppa have all represented their country's (Australia, NZ and Tonga) and Hoppa, Jackson and Nappa are all ex S.O.O players so not exactly Nil, Zilch, didley squat etc.
I would probably go further and ask why are they still not playing S.O.O and when did they start to go off the boil form wise that took them out of representative calculation??

Good points, deserve answers. Jackson got old (and a bit worn down) and Foran got injured (more than once). As for Napa, he is an enigma, sorry I can't answer that one.

Go Dogs

 

[Bazildog]

Good points, deserve answers. Jackson got old (and a bit worn down) and Foran got injured (more than once). As for Napa, he is an enigma, sorry I can't answer that one.

Go Dogs

Wasn't my point. Just as a good coach can lift a player to aspire to reach new heights, the wrong coach can have the opposite effect. I loved Dean as a player but its not translating.. Jackson got old because of the way he was being used, Foran got injured multiple times but still good enough to get selected for NZ, Napa showed at the roosters that he could bring aggression and was used mostly from the bench and yet we buy him and play him as a stating prop?

I dont want Thompson and possibly Bateman coming into the side and played against their strengths. Both are tough boys but neither are enforcers. JMK to the centres? DWZ back to fullback were he had spent weeks showing us all he wasn't up to it? Its not just the cap and the cattle, and it wont jut "miraculously" fix itself with Thompson, Bateman + one.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Can’t wait to read how we conceded 9 bullshit tries on Sunday night

 

[GreenTurd]

Can’t wait to read how we conceded 9 bullshit tries on Sunday night

We’re heading in the right direction.

 

[GreenTurd]

What I don’t get is, how do these “not good enough players” beat good teams at the end of the last 2 years?

 

[KiwiDog7]

What I don’t get is, how do these “not good enough players” beat good teams at the end of the last 2 years?

It’s funny because when we win those nothing games at the back end (like we prob will do again this season) all Pays supporters come out in force and sing from the rooftops and talk smack over summer about how ‘next season we will do well ‘ on the basis of those meaningless wins

All it means is the roster is capable which throws out the ‘Pay doesn’t have the cattle ‘ argument