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Opinion How long does Dean Pay have left?

Discussion in 'Bulldogs Discussion' started by DoggyStyla, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. speedy2460

    speedy2460 Kennel Enthusiast

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    Its OK for some to say a good coach will bring out the best in players. Some coaches can, providing the players have the ability.
    A good coach will never be able to improve sub standard players to an acceptable level. Thats what Dean Pay is faced with.
     
  2. btrainben

    btrainben Kennel Immortal

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    I completely disagree. Steve Folkes took us to a GF in 98 in his first season as coach when our starting 17 had a bunch of mediocre players or fringe first graders in it.

    Gavin Lester, Shane Marteene, Corey Hughes in the halves, Robert Relf, Tony Grimaldi, Steve Hughes, Steve Reardon, David Thompson, Troy Stone...

    Now I love some of those players like Grimaldi, Reardon and Relf but we had no business even making the GF against the most stacked Brisbane team of all time.

    Those ten players I listed are worse than most of our current squad talent wise yet Folkes took us to the GF in a 20 team comp! Dean Pay could not have gotten that team to the GF, let alone finish higher than 5th last, which seems to be his specialty.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  3. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    Rather selective picking there, you left out of the spine Silva, Polly and Hetherington. How much would you give to have a spine like that today?

    The forwards weren't half bad with Britt, Price and Norton, one of our best ball playing props ever. Plus of course the best or second best (depending on what stats you use) goal kicker in NRL history in Halligan with Talua in the centres.

    I know it's painful, it is for me anyway, but we did lose 38 to 12. Plus it was the first unified year after SuperLeague, there were 20 teams and as a result the talent was spread very thin. So it's all very well to critique our team but their record needs to be looked at in the context of their opposition. They did finish 9th so only 2 places higher than Pay's record with us thus far, so wouldn't have even made the finals these days.

    Not of course taking anything away from Steve Folks, who I rate higher than Bellamy for what he achieved with far less talented teams.

    Go Dogs
     
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  4. btrainben

    btrainben Kennel Immortal

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    It's not selective. All of those three were good players who I loved but none of them were stars, all were at the back end of their careers and only Hetherington was an Origin player.

    Yeah, we had some good players but those 7 other players weren't so great they could carry a team to a GF. The other 10 I listed were all mediocre at best which proves that Folkes got more out of less and did a great job to get them to the GF.

    Most of those 10 players I listed were out of the league all together within a few years of the GF!

    I won't go back and forth. If you're arguing that Pay is as good a coach as Folkes was, or could do just as well with the same team, then it's not worth responding.
     
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  5. speedy2460

    speedy2460 Kennel Enthusiast

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  6. SweetFA

    SweetFA Kennel Regular

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    Pay will be the Bulldogs coach starting the 2021 season.
     
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  7. Sancho2020

    Sancho2020 Kennel Immortal Gilded

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    Unlucky.
     
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  8. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    I’ll keep it simple, aside from the Donkeys the other 19 teams (including us) where spread very thin on talent. As such it’s overly simplistic to pick one team and say that they were average when all of them were average. That particular year is often quoted by many as an example of why the NRL shouldn’t expand the number of teams, not enough talent to go round.


    Go Dogs
     
  9. Bazildog

    Bazildog Kennel Regular

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    So let's sum up here.

    Apparently you can nominate 20 coaches that would do as good a job or better than Bellamy has with the Storm..

    Steve Folkes had a gun side in 98 that led Bridbane 12-10 at half time before getting run over in the second half by this team..

    Darren Lockyer
    Michael De Vere
    Steve Renouf
    Darren Smith
    Wendell Sailor
    Kevin Walters
    Allan Langer (c)
    Shane Webcke
    Phillip Lee
    Andrew Gee
    Gorden Tallis
    Brad Thorn
    Tonie Carroll
    Michael Hancock
    John Plath
    Kevin Campion
    Petero Civoniceva

    Flanagan is now only a cap rorter and not a drug cheat.

    And I've been sucked into the Bellamy myth because you don't rate him in the "top echelon" of coaches but apparently Pay is...?

    I suggest you look at the many coaches who have learnt thier trade as assistants under Bellamy just like Bellamy did under Bennett. Or perhaps open your ears to the many players who have played under Bellamy that sing his praises starting with Cronk (a Bellamy manufactured halfback) Slater and Smith.

    They can't talk highly enough of the man..

    One of us is caught in a myth, but it's with Pay and not Bellamy..
     
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  10. btrainben

    btrainben Kennel Immortal

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    Wow, you really will go to such painstaking lengths to defend Pay that you will just go back in time and try and re-write history to diminish the accomplishments of a premiership winning coach in Folkes.. Amazing..

    Newcastle won in 97 and had the same team with the Johns brothers, Robbie O, Harrigan etc. Canberra still had Mullins, Daley, Stuart, Clyde etc. The Roosters had Fittler, Lam and co. Parra had a great team with 4 of our best players that defected with Pay, Smith, McCracken and Dymock. Norths were a good team then with a bunch of rep players like Taylor. Melbourne had Lazarus and Kimmorley etc and came 3rd that year. Manly made the GF three years straight before 98 and had the same team.. We beat several of those teams to make the finals and then in the finals to make the GF.

    But please, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story..
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  11. khan

    khan Kennel Enthusiast

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    Why do people bother with him.
     
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  12. NPC83

    NPC83 Kennel Regular

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    It’s going to be really important for the development of Wakeham, Averillo and other young talent coming through to have a strong experienced coach.
     
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  13. TwinTurbo

    TwinTurbo Kennel Enthusiast Gilded

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    But compared to the Donkeys team they were all very short on overall talent. Sure there were good players scattered amongst the teams, but across the field they had glaring deficiencies.


    Might I remind you of my post regarding your claim of me diminishing the accomplishments on Steve Folks (perhaps another example of your selective memory loss?)
    Go Dogs
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  14. Bazildog

    Bazildog Kennel Regular

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    Capture.JPG tenor.gif
     
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  15. DoggyStyla

    DoggyStyla Kennel Regular

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    Pay is on the news tonight, saying he would love grub back! WTF is wrong with that c***? Let’s buy more injury prone players!!
     
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  16. SPEARTAKVIDREFS

    SPEARTAKVIDREFS Kennel Regular

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    DNA with madness guaranteed!!!!
     
  17. Prison Mike

    Prison Mike Kennel Immortal

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    Shaun Wane has said he wants to coach in the NRL and quote "would kill it" bring him on I say ! Bye bye Dean
     
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  18. DoggyStyla

    DoggyStyla Kennel Regular

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    #Payout #Wanein
     
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  19. boggie23

    boggie23 Kennel Addict

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    If Pay brings Reynolds back. Then I think it should be career suicide.

    We are lacking in so many key positions. Maybe he should figure out a way on how to improve them before coming out in the media stating that he is open to conversation with tigers about a homecoming for josh.
     
  20. 2ndphase

    2ndphase Kennel Regular

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