Opinion How do you judge a coaches qualifications?

[BlackJackBulldog]

As the title ponders... how do you come to your opinion on a coaches qualifications/suitability for a role?

After hearing the back and forth about who is the best option for us I am interested to know what carries the most importance?
Where does lower grade experience rate against the ESL?
Is it better to have a rep team coaching background over an assistant coach history?
Does it matter how many minor grade titles/accolades you have acheived or which "master" you served your apprenticeship under?
Preference given to a rookie coach taking a blue ribbon team to the finals or an old school successful coach whose been out of the game for a while?

Obviously wanting to know why people think Walters is better qualified than Holbrook, Robinson compared to Griffin, Toovey to Flanagan etc
I was all for Holbrook over Pay because I rate his ESL experience more than Pays assistant/rep history.

What ranks higher in your opinion?
(Would have put up a poll but I am obviously a simpleton... and lazy!)

 

[Nasheed]

Nasheed here,
To me a good coach first and foremost needs to have a strategic and analytical mind. To innovate on a mathematical level the way someon like Hasler figured its +EV to do short kickoff, or to give away penalties close to line like Robinson etc.

He also needs to be able to communicate with players to their unique personalities and quirks. For example to the black guys he needs to he needs to say things like 'yo whats good' when asking them how they are an using Tupac quotes to motivate,and also say 'bro' when dealing with Mediterranean players. If a Lebanese guy asks 'that true coach?' he needs to reply with 'wallah cuz' but then switch to 'yes mate' within .2 seconds if a white guy asks the same question.
Understand what each player think and are good at.

Maybe you have a defensive mindset but your halfback has a sick right foot step. So you allow him to use that step despite a defensive strategy. Because you can see how good that player is.

Also needs an eye for recruitment. Need to massage the young guys and get them revved up for you and get them wanting to come to your club. Thats part of he strategy though.
Nasheed.

 

[BlackJackBulldog]

Nasheed here,
To me a good coach first and foremost needs to have a strategic and analytical mind. To innovate on a mathematical level the way someon like Hasler figured its +EV to do short kickoff, or to give away penalties close to line like Robinson etc.

He also needs to be able to communicate with players to their unique personalities and quirks. For example to the black guys he needs to he needs to say things like 'yo whats good' when asking them how they are an using Tupac quotes to motivate,and also say 'bro' when dealing with Mediterranean players. If a Lebanese guy asks 'that true coach?' he needs to reply with 'wallah cuz' but then switch to 'yes mate' within .2 seconds if a white guy asks the same question.
Understand what each player think and are good at.

Maybe you have a defensive mindset but your halfback has a sick right foot step. So you allow him to use that step despite a defensive strategy. Because you can see how good that player is.

Also needs an eye for recruitment. Need to massage the young guys and get them revved up for you and get them wanting to come to your club. Thats part of he strategy though.
Nasheed.

All true in regards to qualities required but hard to judge until actually given a first grade gig

 

[Nasheed]

All true in regards to qualities required but hard to judge until actually given a first grade gig

Also an element of sheer luck too.

Some players and coaches are very careful to whre they go once they have a god rep.
Bellamy is doing the Cam Smith thing and riding him.
Bennett is careful what team he goes too. Applies for roles vacated from successful teams after utilising the huge resources of Brisbane.

And I read here that Maloney only signs with teams that have a good line breaking forward pack.

If true, these guys are good, but are further padding their reputation through selective strategy.

 

[TABOO]

Nasheed here,
To me a good coach first and foremost needs to have a strategic and analytical mind. To innovate on a mathematical level the way someon like Hasler figured its +EV to do short kickoff, or to give away penalties close to line like Robinson etc.

He also needs to be able to communicate with players to their unique personalities and quirks. For example to the black guys he needs to he needs to say things like 'yo whats good' when asking them how they are an using Tupac quotes to motivate,and also say 'bro' when dealing with Mediterranean players. If a Lebanese guy asks 'that true coach?' he needs to reply with 'wallah cuz' but then switch to 'yes mate' within .2 seconds if a white guy asks the same question.
Understand what each player think and are good at.

Maybe you have a defensive mindset but your halfback has a sick right foot step. So you allow him to use that step despite a defensive strategy. Because you can see how good that player is.

Also needs an eye for recruitment. Need to massage the young guys and get them revved up for you and get them wanting to come to your club. Thats part of he strategy though.
Nasheed.

Wallah Cuz!

 

[Nasheed]

Wallah Cuz!

^NRL Coach in the making.

 

[TABOO]

^NRL Coach in the making.

Mark my words......

 

[Scoooby]

Sack pay. Then You will get to judge a real coach

 

[The DoggFather]

Nasheed here,
To me a good coach first and foremost needs to have a strategic and analytical mind. To innovate on a mathematical level the way someon like Hasler figured its +EV to do short kickoff, or to give away penalties close to line like Robinson etc.

He also needs to be able to communicate with players to their unique personalities and quirks. For example to the black guys he needs to he needs to say things like 'yo whats good' when asking them how they are an using Tupac quotes to motivate,and also say 'bro' when dealing with Mediterranean players. If a Lebanese guy asks 'that true coach?' he needs to reply with 'wallah cuz' but then switch to 'yes mate' within .2 seconds if a white guy asks the same question.
Understand what each player think and are good at.

Maybe you have a defensive mindset but your halfback has a sick right foot step. So you allow him to use that step despite a defensive strategy. Because you can see how good that player is.

Also needs an eye for recruitment. Need to massage the young guys and get them revved up for you and get them wanting to come to your club. Thats part of he strategy though.
Nasheed.

Who are you? Didn't quite catch your name bro

 

[Raysie]

There's a massive difference between being Assistant Coach and a Coach of any side in either NRL/ESL/Rep.

An Assistant Coach is a bit like an Opposition or Deputy Minister - talks it up and promises the world with their made up ideas when there's no actual responsibility, but then does what their predecessor did once in power because it's all they know and because they also can't handle the pressure.

If someone like Holbrook can manage an ESL team over a number of seasons and gets great success with all the pressure and expectation I'm sure St Helens have, then his CV in my opinion looks a shit tonne better than Mr Assistant Coach.

 

[Nasheed]

Mark my words......

You may.
You may not.

You need to understand that at this stage Pay is our coach and at some stage very soon, he may turn a corner.

For example.
Imagine you’re at parra Crinitis with your hookup and you look up and notice Lichaa, Kalache, Pay and that fat Saab bloke who has played reserve grade forever doin happy laps down Church st in a Supra, Dressed all in G Star and Gucci hats under hoods, yelling at the girls.

On the third lap you see Pay on the phone so you listen in, and you hear a conversation on the phone, something like ‘shuuuu.... yeah bro mad Ganga at Burwoods station. Bring all d boys yallah. Tag teams’ and they rip a skid mark and drive off toward the inner west.

At this point you got to give up your coaching dream for now and realise Pay has turned a corner and will make it after all. Nasheed.

 

[Doomsdaydog]

You may.
You may not.

You need to understand that at this stage Pay is our coach and at some stage very soon, he may turn a corner.

For example.
Imagine you’re at parra Crinitis with your hookup and you look up and notice Lichaa, Kalache, Pay and that fat Saab bloke who has played reserve grade forever doin happy laps down Church st in a Supra, Dressed all in G Star and Gucci hats under hoods, yelling at the girls.

On the third lap you see Pay on the phone so you listen in, and you hear a conversation on the phone, something like ‘shuuuu.... yeah bro mad Ganga at Burwoods station. Bring all d boys yallah. Tag teams’ and they rip a skid mark and drive off toward the inner west.

At this point you got to give up your coaching dream for now and realise Pay has turned a corner and will make it after all. Nasheed.

Burwood is no longer da hood for d lebo boyz and girlz. It's all chopstix now

 

[Nasheed]

Burwood is no longer da hood for d lebo boyz and girlz. It's all chopstix now

Yeah but you get those gangaz who were promised a husband when they came over But were tricked by Mohammed and are tossing their meat at the local brothels so it still applies

 

[Chris Harding]

As the title ponders... how do you come to your opinion on a coaches qualifications/suitability for a role?

After hearing the back and forth about who is the best option for us I am interested to know what carries the most importance?
Where does lower grade experience rate against the ESL?
Is it better to have a rep team coaching background over an assistant coach history?
Does it matter how many minor grade titles/accolades you have acheived or which "master" you served your apprenticeship under?
Preference given to a rookie coach taking a blue ribbon team to the finals or an old school successful coach whose been out of the game for a while?

Obviously wanting to know why people think Walters is better qualified than Holbrook, Robinson compared to Griffin, Toovey to Flanagan etc
I was all for Holbrook over Pay because I rate his ESL experience more than Pays assistant/rep history.

What ranks higher in your opinion?
(Would have put up a poll but I am obviously a simpleton... and lazy!)

On field results with a team that is not overflowing with international stars.

 

[Nasheed]

Where do the HDs hang out now anyway ?

The lebz, Indians, Assyrians, Persians, Russians etc?

The heavy hitters. The ones you don’t mess with.

 

[Chris Harding]

You may.
You may not.

You need to understand that at this stage Pay is our coach and at some stage very soon, he may turn a corner.

For example.
Imagine you’re at parra Crinitis with your hookup and you look up and notice Lichaa, Kalache, Pay and that fat Saab bloke who has played reserve grade forever doin happy laps down Church st in a Supra, Dressed all in G Star and Gucci hats under hoods, yelling at the girls.

On the third lap you see Pay on the phone so you listen in, and you hear a conversation on the phone, something like ‘shuuuu.... yeah bro mad Ganga at Burwoods station. Bring all d boys yallah. Tag teams’ and they rip a skid mark and drive off toward the inner west.

At this point you got to give up your coaching dream for now and realise Pay has turned a corner and will make it after all. Nasheed.

Not a particularly nice analogy, but you've hit the nail on the head when you intimate that Pay wants to be one of the boys. A good coach has a very lonely life, and he makes sure the team doesn't get it easy. His job is to push them beyond their boundaries and show them they can achieve higher than they thought. That takes a level of unpopularity, but earns respect.

 

[gazza]

To me its pretty obvious. At least what a good coach is not. First example is the players give the coach a beating and throw him down the stairs at the end of season party (think Jason Taylor). Second example have two players charged with criminal offences as a result of the end of year party for conduct which the coach did nothing to stop and perhaps even encouraged (guess who).

 

[Nasheed]

To me its pretty obvious. At least what a good coach is not. First example is the players give the coach a beating and throw him down the stairs at the end of season party (think Jason Taylor). Second example have two players charged with criminal offences as a result of the end of year party for conduct which the coach did nothing to stop and perhaps even encouraged (guess who).

Thats victim blaming.

 

[Alexander the Great]

Parklea or Goulburn normally.

Where do the HDs hang out now anyway ?

The lebz, Indians, Assyrians, Persians, Russians etc?

The heavy hitters. The ones you don’t mess with.

 

[Dogs Of War]

You want a coach who has been involved in a number of roles with clubs. A good examples is Bellamy, he did lots with the Broncos as Bennetts assistant. Strength and Conditioning, defensive coach etc. Same with Steve Folkes before he became the main man at the Dogs. Funnily enough Dean Pay fits this criteria with stints at the Catalan Dragons (with Kevin Walters, terrible results), U20's coach at Melb, Parra & Canberra assistant coach (Both under Ricky Stuart as defensive coach, though both clubs defence was poor).

That allows them to understand how that function works, and what they expect out of it. It's those guys who have had a limited exposure and only done things like attack coach and got good results, but do not have a full understanding of all functions that tend to not go well. Good example is Trent Barrett. He really was learning attack coaching stuff and got promoted before he was ready.

It's also a reason those guys who have got to the ESL and have had good results tend to go well over here. They don't have the support staff they do here, so they are expected to do a lot of those roles themselves. Trent Robinson and Michael Maguire come to mind. Funny how Nathan Brown didn't go well over in the ESL (comparatively speaking when you look at win loss rate), and that's showing in the team performance. It's why I'm spewing we didn't get Holbrook. I think he would have done with the resources we would have been able to give him at this club.

Ultimately it's guys who did a role and got those teams to be better than the average team that go onto to be a success as head coach, which is why I don't think Dean Pay is the right bloke for our club, that success in those roles is just not there on paper.