Have we forgotten one important factor ... ?

DinkumDog

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You're right. I thought he was contracted until the end of 2021 for some reason. I still thinks he deserves a chance with the 2021 roster unless next season is a massive flop (wooden spoon territory). If a top coach is available (e.g. Flanagan) we probably need to be savage tho.
I wouldn’t want Flanagan at Belmore - but leaving that aside, under the terms of his suspension being lifted he can only be an assistant for 2020 and 2021. He cannot be a Head Coach until 2022. So, it’s Pay or someone else for 2021, yet to be determined.
 

bradyk

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I wouldn’t want Flanagan at Belmore - but leaving that aside, under the terms of his suspension being lifted he can only be an assistant for 2020 and 2021. He cannot be a Head Coach until 2022. So, it’s Pay or someone else for 2021, yet to be determined.
I mean knowing the NRL they'll change that and get him back one year early. I just meant someone around Flanagan's ability anyways. Whoever that might be.
 

NPC83

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Tell me players who swapped. I can think of Jaydn Su'a who wasn't in the Broncos 17. I'm not talking about retaining. We need to get players here. Boyd followed Bennett to the Dragons, Knights and back to the Broncos. It's rare... I don't think players stay for unders. They stay for what they're worth and it's up to other clubs to offer them overs. Most of the coaches (and clubs) you've mentioned are successful.
Corey Parker...he admitted as much. I’m just backing my comment that the coach is important not saying money isn’t it. Jayden Sua Played 31 games in 2.5 seasons which included injury and suspension. Prior to 2019 he was in their 17. Regardless of retention or recruitment the coach is important you can’t convince me otherwise.
 

bradyk

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Corey Parker...he admitted as much. I’m just backing my comment that the coach is important not saying money isn’t it. Jayden Sua Played 31 games in 2.5 seasons which included injury and suspension. Prior to 2019 he was in their 17. Regardless of retention or recruitment the coach is important you can’t convince me otherwise.
When Seibold took over he wasn't in the 17 anymore (Su'a). You've given me one example (not even a valid example because Parker didn't swap clubs). Like I said it's rare. Parker was probably on good money too and Broncos were a top successful club (= good coach). You can believe what you like. It's success or money to attract players tho.
 

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Its a catastrophe and no one one wants to talk about the real issue, the cleaners. If they did there job properly we wouldn't be in this mess.
If we payed them say 7.6M for the next 6 years wed start attracting marque players and wouldn't have to pay overs.
.
IKR the amount of times they've got in the way by starting to clean stuff (Edit - sthuff to stuff) at Belmore before folks were finished with it is ridiculous!

This is pretty much the crux of it. Yes we've been falling behind in recruitment and yes we haven't been competitive enough to make the Top 4 or even the 8 for that matter, but c'mon you gotta give the club some credit. Especially with signing of DWZ and how much of an impact he has had. And that back end of the season the boys were genuinely digging in for eachother and now we're going into the off season on a high note. That's surely a good thing? Even a negative Nelly like myself can see that.
I'm not really a fan of Pay as a coach atm, but credit where credit is due.
The DWZ factor is exclusively why we had the run home we did.
Without him, I still strongly suspect we would of copped the wooden spoon.
He embarrassed the other players into action with his hitups alone!

Without ruffling a few feathers here I think a lot of you are missing the point .... or maybe I didn't communicate myself properly?

I'm not saying Pay is good or bad. For the record, I was positively surprised by him at the backend of the season. He deserves credit for unifying the squad. Bringing us together. There does seem like a real bond amongst the squad. And the recent mass re-signings point to them being happy and believing in his vision.

I just don't know why he's been exempt from all of the discussions recently. For some time we debated about whether he was / is the right man to lead us forward. Many were up in arms about Holbrook not coming to us. But as soon as the push for new players began ... nothing ... Why?

If we're going to truly discuss our apparent 'bad' recruitment then let's discuss everything rather than using our own agendas to push against management. Why's no one talking about Pay? Now, I'm not saying he's good or bad. I'm just questioning why the shift?

The coach is what the team is built around. You can have superstars but a bad coach ... A coach with a vision. A certain style of play. A charisma. This coach draws players in. They want to play for him.

Why aren't players doing that with Pay? You talk about money all the time, and that's important. But at the same time the players still want to play for a coach they can believe in. Are the lack of signings showing us that they don't have that belief in him?
You can't discuss the taboo topic, as it will make him feel insecure, resulting in his equine wife losing her shit on here and her handler likewise.
We don't need that here, so please change the topic to something more positive.
 
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finchie

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If we start the way we finished last year what would you think then?
Didn’t we do the same in 2018
The finish to 2018???

the only way is up I agree but only coz we are at the bottom of the barrel

fancy being rejected by Herman essese at the final hurdle.
 

Tassie Devil

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If the players weren’t playing for pay or them self’s at the end of last year with nothing to play for I will give it away
The determination they showed late last year is credit to pay, his ability to get the team up week in week out late with nothing to play for was great
Wether his the one, who knows
And I think part the decision not to go with latrell is what you said
Pay has brought the squad together, his got that bond with them
I think Mitchell at the moment demanding this and that doesn’t fit the bill
Look at what klopp has done with your Liverpool, moved on the big heads(continiho) etc
And bought in players that believe in him and his systems
Look no further than your Liverpool
Klopps been giving time to build his roster
They won nothing for years
But they trusted him
Pay wants players that want to play for him his team mates and the jersey
Not just some bloke demanding money and demanding the fullback spot
Very good point mate and I actually agree with most of that. As I said, I'm actually not knocking Pay per say just the lack of discussion of him in our support base.

I've been thinking for some time to bring up clear comparisons between the Dogs and LFC. So much seems similar to me in the approaches to recruitment etc. so I can totally see what you're saying. I honestly do think we're playing Moneyball at the Dogs which was so successful at LFC and the Redsocks. Getting the right fit rather than just paying overs for the 'big name'. I like that our club are doing this and it humours me people losing their shit because the Tigers are apparently going to sign Mitchell for 1,3 million fucken dollars! The club that signed Mbaye, Reynolds for big money? For that much they're welcome to Mitchell.

However, even though they're similarities between LFC and the Dogs, they're some absolutely massive differences too. You can't compare Pay and Klopp. Klopp came to LFC on the back of a hugely successful stint at Dortmund and one of the best managers in the world. He always had an approach to bringing youth through, and being a coach EVERYONE wants to play for.

Pay's no where near that mate. Will take a long long long time before he does imo. Yes, it took LFC years to win but in his first year he'd took us to the final of Europa League so he made immediate massive improvements. There isn't a comparison in my mind.

I do agree though that I think that Pay is looking to replicate the same togetherness, and is looking for players that fit our family rather than those who'll damage it. Should he get more time? 100% because I don't think there's a better option out there now. PLus ... he has shown some promising signs
 

Alan79

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I don't know anymore than the rest of the mushrooms in here why we've missed some of our recruitment targets in recent times. But at the same time we've also picked up some quality when we didn't have the advantage of having bundles of cash to throw at them. DWZ and CHN are two pretty well respected players to sign when we were supposedly struggling to afford to fit 30 players under the cap.

As far as I can see we're quite possibly being very cautious in getting not only talented players here, but players that have talent supported by some commitment.

Every time I watch a circus develop around a talented off contract player I quickly begin thinking that I don't want them near the club. It's just a massive deal breaker for me to see a player allowing the media to do any portion of their negotiations. So I'm actually pretty pleased that the Mitchell speculation is over and done with on our behalf.

I want to see us assemble a roster that has very few sources of drama because waiting to erupt. We had a highly talented roster in Barbas final year at the club. From all that I've read, his poor attitude really caused a lot of players to clock out. I think that part of why Klemmer was released was because the club wanted to avoid keeping a player here that was going to rock the boat.

I'll be patient with Dean Pay despite the fact that I never liked the idea of recruiting him in the first place. He's done ok in patches with a lot of spanners thrown into the works. His first year saw the club needing to shop players around. We picked up some form when the dust settled. This year he had an inexperienced roster to work with. The team seemed to grow into a strong unit as they became more used to the pace, physicality and pressure of the NRL. So I'm still sitting in judgement until the coming season gets underway. Seems like things should really be settled now and even though our roster isn't full of stars, they should be constantly competing.

The board in my opinion have done plenty right. They've begun to reverse the changes previous management made in our juniors policy (namely that they weren't important). They've recruited a few handy players while financially handicapped. And from all I've read, they seem to be mentally prepared to negotiate with some strength.

I feel like the future is looking bright. Many people hope to pick up at least one star player. But I hope the club can fill our roster with talent in every position, even if it doesn't involve players that are highly rated at this stage. I want threats from positions 1-17 every week. I don't want to splash all our cap space on having threats in 2-3 positions and weaknesses elsewhere.
 

Tassie Devil

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I don't know anymore than the rest of the mushrooms in here why we've missed some of our recruitment targets in recent times. But at the same time we've also picked up some quality when we didn't have the advantage of having bundles of cash to throw at them. DWZ and CHN are two pretty well respected players to sign when we were supposedly struggling to afford to fit 30 players under the cap.

As far as I can see we're quite possibly being very cautious in getting not only talented players here, but players that have talent supported by some commitment.

Every time I watch a circus develop around a talented off contract player I quickly begin thinking that I don't want them near the club. It's just a massive deal breaker for me to see a player allowing the media to do any portion of their negotiations. So I'm actually pretty pleased that the Mitchell speculation is over and done with on our behalf.

I want to see us assemble a roster that has very few sources of drama because waiting to erupt. We had a highly talented roster in Barbas final year at the club. From all that I've read, his poor attitude really caused a lot of players to clock out. I think that part of why Klemmer was released was because the club wanted to avoid keeping a player here that was going to rock the boat.

I'll be patient with Dean Pay despite the fact that I never liked the idea of recruiting him in the first place. He's done ok in patches with a lot of spanners thrown into the works. His first year saw the club needing to shop players around. We picked up some form when the dust settled. This year he had an inexperienced roster to work with. The team seemed to grow into a strong unit as they became more used to the pace, physicality and pressure of the NRL. So I'm still sitting in judgement until the coming season gets underway. Seems like things should really be settled now and even though our roster isn't full of stars, they should be constantly competing.

The board in my opinion have done plenty right. They've begun to reverse the changes previous management made in our juniors policy (namely that they weren't important). They've recruited a few handy players while financially handicapped. And from all I've read, they seem to be mentally prepared to negotiate with some strength.

I feel like the future is looking bright. Many people hope to pick up at least one star player. But I hope the club can fill our roster with talent in every position, even if it doesn't involve players that are highly rated at this stage. I want threats from positions 1-17 every week. I don't want to splash all our cap space on having threats in 2-3 positions and weaknesses elsewhere.
Very good post. Find myself agreeing with everything.
 

Bozzo

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I don't know anymore than the rest of the mushrooms in here why we've missed some of our recruitment targets in recent times. But at the same time we've also picked up some quality when we didn't have the advantage of having bundles of cash to throw at them. DWZ and CHN are two pretty well respected players to sign when we were supposedly struggling to afford to fit 30 players under the cap.

As far as I can see we're quite possibly being very cautious in getting not only talented players here, but players that have talent supported by some commitment.

Every time I watch a circus develop around a talented off contract player I quickly begin thinking that I don't want them near the club. It's just a massive deal breaker for me to see a player allowing the media to do any portion of their negotiations. So I'm actually pretty pleased that the Mitchell speculation is over and done with on our behalf.

I want to see us assemble a roster that has very few sources of drama because waiting to erupt. We had a highly talented roster in Barbas final year at the club. From all that I've read, his poor attitude really caused a lot of players to clock out. I think that part of why Klemmer was released was because the club wanted to avoid keeping a player here that was going to rock the boat.

I'll be patient with Dean Pay despite the fact that I never liked the idea of recruiting him in the first place. He's done ok in patches with a lot of spanners thrown into the works. His first year saw the club needing to shop players around. We picked up some form when the dust settled. This year he had an inexperienced roster to work with. The team seemed to grow into a strong unit as they became more used to the pace, physicality and pressure of the NRL. So I'm still sitting in judgement until the coming season gets underway. Seems like things should really be settled now and even though our roster isn't full of stars, they should be constantly competing.

The board in my opinion have done plenty right. They've begun to reverse the changes previous management made in our juniors policy (namely that they weren't important). They've recruited a few handy players while financially handicapped. And from all I've read, they seem to be mentally prepared to negotiate with some strength.

I feel like the future is looking bright. Many people hope to pick up at least one star player. But I hope the club can fill our roster with talent in every position, even if it doesn't involve players that are highly rated at this stage. I want threats from positions 1-17 every week. I don't want to splash all our cap space on having threats in 2-3 positions and weaknesses elsewhere.
Nicely said.
 

DinkumDog

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I don't know anymore than the rest of the mushrooms in here why we've missed some of our recruitment targets in recent times. But at the same time we've also picked up some quality when we didn't have the advantage of having bundles of cash to throw at them. DWZ and CHN are two pretty well respected players to sign when we were supposedly struggling to afford to fit 30 players under the cap.

As far as I can see we're quite possibly being very cautious in getting not only talented players here, but players that have talent supported by some commitment.

Every time I watch a circus develop around a talented off contract player I quickly begin thinking that I don't want them near the club. It's just a massive deal breaker for me to see a player allowing the media to do any portion of their negotiations. So I'm actually pretty pleased that the Mitchell speculation is over and done with on our behalf.

I want to see us assemble a roster that has very few sources of drama because waiting to erupt. We had a highly talented roster in Barbas final year at the club. From all that I've read, his poor attitude really caused a lot of players to clock out. I think that part of why Klemmer was released was because the club wanted to avoid keeping a player here that was going to rock the boat.

I'll be patient with Dean Pay despite the fact that I never liked the idea of recruiting him in the first place. He's done ok in patches with a lot of spanners thrown into the works. His first year saw the club needing to shop players around. We picked up some form when the dust settled. This year he had an inexperienced roster to work with. The team seemed to grow into a strong unit as they became more used to the pace, physicality and pressure of the NRL. So I'm still sitting in judgement until the coming season gets underway. Seems like things should really be settled now and even though our roster isn't full of stars, they should be constantly competing.

The board in my opinion have done plenty right. They've begun to reverse the changes previous management made in our juniors policy (namely that they weren't important). They've recruited a few handy players while financially handicapped. And from all I've read, they seem to be mentally prepared to negotiate with some strength.

I feel like the future is looking bright. Many people hope to pick up at least one star player. But I hope the club can fill our roster with talent in every position, even if it doesn't involve players that are highly rated at this stage. I want threats from positions 1-17 every week. I don't want to splash all our cap space on having threats in 2-3 positions and weaknesses elsewhere.
This ! Bang on and well said Alan.
 

LordSidious66

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If this board miss out on Thompson, I want them gone asap.
 
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NPC83

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When Seibold took over he wasn't in the 17 anymore (Su'a). You've given me one example (not even a valid example because Parker didn't swap clubs). Like I said it's rare. Parker was probably on good money too and Broncos were a top successful club (= good coach). You can believe what you like. It's success or money to attract players tho.
Su’A was a good example cause he was in the 17 until the new coach so he followed his old coach case in point I doubt he went to Souths for a massive pay rise. And Parker was on unders for sure he admitted it, if you care to read the earlier comments. Honestly bro you are delusional if you think a coach isn’t an important part of success. Read your very first comment I replied too you said the coach wasn’t really a factor. That is point blank wrong. End of discussion.
 

Horse

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You can't discuss the taboo topic, as it will make him feel insecure, resulting in his equine wife losing her shit on here and her handler likewise.
We don't need that here, so please change the topic to something more positive.
@Natboy II He’s still at it :tearsofjoy:
 
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bradyk

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Su’A was a good example cause he was in the 17 until the new coach so he followed his old coach case in point I doubt he went to Souths for a massive pay rise. And Parker was on unders for sure he admitted it, if you care to read the earlier comments. Honestly bro you are delusional if you think a coach isn’t an important part of success. Read your very first comment I replied too you said the coach wasn’t really a factor. That is point blank wrong. End of discussion.
It isn't a factor. Success or money is. If you're successful you probably have a good coach or people think you do. That's why I said they're tangible. Yeah there is always an outlier like Boyd (who gets meme'd about). I'm not delusional you're struggling to give examples when you said there were plenty. Also if you think Su'a makes your case and point then don't bother replying. He didn't make the Broncos 17 when Seibold arrived due to what he thought of him and what the Broncos had coming through. There wasn't even a bench opportunity for him. That's why he went to the Rabbitohs. Parker didn't move clubs but you keep bringing him up. Not even relevant to attracting talent. End of discussion.
 

NPC83

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It isn't a factor. Success or money is. If you're successful you probably have a good coach or people think you do. That's why I said they're tangible. Yeah there is always an outlier like Boyd (who gets meme'd about). I'm not delusional you're struggling to give examples when you said there were plenty. Also if you think Su'a makes your case and point then don't bother replying. He didn't make the Broncos 17 when Seibold arrived due to what he thought of him and what the Broncos had coming through. There wasn't even a bench opportunity for him. That's why he went to the Rabbitohs. Parker didn't move clubs but you keep bringing him up. Not even relevant to attracting talent. End of discussion.
Lol... I gave you a couple examples champ... Ryan Hoffman was one i mentioned earlier but here’s another one James Tedesco, he could have got that money or more at multiple clubs... or are you just going to say roosters are successful and it’s got nothing to do with the coach? you just can’t get it through your thick head that a coach is important. You keep saying a club is successful but they all have the same salary cap. Parker stayed for less cause the coach was a factor many players see a coach as an important figure in their life/career. Not sure if you work but having a good boss to work with makes a huge difference. I doubt you would get many that agree with you that the coach isn’t a factor but judging by how many people argue with you on the kennel it wouldn’t make much difference you’d just keep blindly arguing never accepting anyone’s valid points. Good luck to you.
 

bradyk

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Lol... I gave you a couple examples champ... Ryan Hoffman was one i mentioned earlier but here’s another one James Tedesco, he could have got that money or more at multiple clubs... or are you just going to say roosters are successful and it’s got nothing to do with the coach? you just can’t get it through your thick head that a coach is important. You keep saying a club is successful but they all have the same salary cap. Parker stayed for less cause the coach was a factor many players see a coach as an important figure in their life/career. Not sure if you work but having a good boss to work with makes a huge difference. I doubt you would get many that agree with you that the coach isn’t a factor but judging by how many people argue with you on the kennel it wouldn’t make much difference you’d just keep blindly arguing never accepting anyone’s valid points. Good luck to you.
Two factors for attracting talent: 1 - expected success, 2 - money. A good coach is at a good/successful club. There is a reason why we have Pay. No good coach would touch us because of the situation we're in and how we're expected to go in the upcoming season(s). This will change in 2021. Brother Tedesco went to one of the best NRL clubs at the time for 1m - no brainer. Hoffman went to the Warriors for more money. Storm was a successful team (with a good coach, you're not going to find a successful team with a shit coach... therefore tangible) so why would he leave without being enticed by being paid overs. I don't care if you agree with me but I don't see the point you're trying to make.
 
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xreedmatic

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Two factors for attracting talent: 1 - expected success, 2 - money. A good coach is at a good/successful club. There is a reason why we have Pay. No good coach would touch us because of the situation we're in and how we're expected to go in the upcoming season(s). This will change in 2021. Brother Tedesco went to one of the best NRL clubs at the time for 1m - no brainer. Hoffman went to the Warriors for more money. Storm was a successful team (with a good coach, you're not going to find a successful team with a shit coach... therefore tangible) so why would he leave without being enticed by being paid overs. I don't care if you agree with me but I don't see the point you're trying to make.
What do you regard as attracting talent?

1. A talented player who has already established himself in first grade

or

2. A young "talented/potential" player coming through the ranks?
 

NPC83

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Two factors for attracting talent: 1 - expected success, 2 - money. A good coach is at a good/successful club. There is a reason why we have Pay. No good coach would touch us because of the situation we're in and how we're expected to go in the upcoming season(s). This will change in 2021. Brother Tedesco went to one of the best NRL clubs at the time for 1m - no brainer. Hoffman went to the Warriors for more money. Storm was a successful team (with a good coach, you're not going to find a successful team with a shit coach... therefore tangible) so why would he leave without being enticed by being paid overs. I don't care if you agree with me but I don't see the point you're trying to make.
I’m talking about when Hoffman came back from overseas he picked Melbourne on less money and part of the factor was the coach. And Teddy got some huge offers he stated roosters weren’t the highest bidder but obviously the coach got involved in the negotiations and sold the vision to him cause form memory roosters finished pretty poorly 2012 before Robbo came so he was a critical factor in their “success” 2016 I think they went close to the spoon but they were able to recruit and rebound as club players supporters all had faith in the coach. When you talk about success you can’t exactly have it if the coach and coaching staff isn’t very good at their job. And when they are good it helps in negotiation especially when the money is the same and the player has options. Why don’t you start a poll “the coach isn’t a factor in negotiations for new recruits” true or false? If it is obvious that nobody thinks the coach is a factor I’ll humbly admit I am wrong. But then again you may make 38 profiles to vote and support your claim hahaha
 

bradyk

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I’m talking about when Hoffman came back from overseas he picked Melbourne on less money and part of the factor was the coach. And Teddy got some huge offers he stated roosters weren’t the highest bidder but obviously the coach got involved in the negotiations and sold the vision to him cause form memory roosters finished pretty poorly 2012 before Robbo came so he was a critical factor in their “success” 2016 I think they went close to the spoon but they were able to recruit and rebound as club players supporters all had faith in the coach. When you talk about success you can’t exactly have it if the coach and coaching staff isn’t very good at their job. And when they are good it helps in negotiation especially when the money is the same and the player has options. Why don’t you start a poll “the coach isn’t a factor in negotiations for new recruits” true or false? If it is obvious that nobody thinks the coach is a factor I’ll humbly admit I am wrong. But then again you may make 38 profiles to vote and support your claim hahaha
Roosters finished 2nd the year before Tedesco joined actually. We were another club interested.

Hoffman returned to finish his career at the Storm. It'd be similar if Josh Morris came back to our club for one more year. Also Storm is a successful club.

A good/successful team has a good coach. They're tangible. You're not giving me enough to change my mind or make it a separate factor.

Expected success (upcoming season) and money are the only attractions that matter. We're not going to sign top talent or players on a "wish list" without having or using one of those.

Why do you fools always resort to conspiracy theories?
 
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