Has there been a worse time for our club?

[doggieaaron]

Hang in there mate. 2021 is the year. Always has been.

Great in theory but we aren’t signing anyone with this “war chest” now that they finally can stop hiding behind the excuses of blaming des etc so how??

 

[BondiBulldog]

this is everything that you wanted, you guys wanted hasler in etc, so enjoy this situation

bulldogs points scored rankings by coach since the nrl moved to 24 games

1st: Folkes 2004 760pts
2nd: Folkes 2002 707pts
3rd: Folkes 2003 702pts
4th: Folkes 2006 608pts
5th: Folkes 2007 575pts (Folkes is shit, this style is outdated, lets change it)
= Moore 2009 575pts
7th Hasler 2012 568pts (Hasler is incredible, this is incredible attacking football, it doesn't get any better than this, how many titles would we have won under hasler, give him total control!!!!)
8th Hasler 2013 529pts
9th Hasler 2015 522pts
10th Hasler 2016 506pts

Yeah 575 points under Folkes from 760 is a rapid decline. No doubt we needed some kind of shake up at the time. I didn’t know the ins and outs of Folkes’s coaching habits then (and wasn’t too concerned from memory) but knew our roster certainly needed a change.

 

[BondiBulldog]

First of all do you realise that before a ball was kicked that we were expected to lose to every team bar the Titans?

I don't have an answer for why we've went on a run at the back end of the last two seasons. I'd say it's psychological - both ourselves and opposition teams. Maybe we're more resilient and play for the whole season whereas others don't? A good trait/character to have moving forward. I wouldn't be expecting it this season tho.

JMK is so bad that I agree Katoa should be given an opportunity. We're obviously going to buy a hooker for 2021 and JMK is going to be our utility. For that reason giving Katoa game time would be a waste. Even tho Katoa should be given an opportunity he was fourth string at the Panthers.

I'd personally be playing Wakeham over Lewis. Pay's reasoning is either Lewis compliments Foran's weaknesses better or Wakeham isn't re-signing with us. It was rumoured Wakeham was going to re-sign a few weeks ago and coincidentally he didn't and was dropped at that exact same time. There is no point playing Wakeham if he's out the door.

I can't deny Pay is one of the worst coaches in the NRL but imo he's done a good job. Pay is automatically going to look worse coaching a roster that's bottom four on paper (due to past management). Pay is also a rebuild coach. A lot of these assistant and super league coaches you guys throw up wouldn't get into any other team maybe bar the Warriors, Dragons (decided to stick with their coach for now), Cowboys and Sharks. There is also no guarentee that they'll do any better and it's very possible they'll do worse. I do want a top coach when one is available (maybe an exception to Fitzgibbon).

Both make valid points but I disagree with Wakeham. I think you play your best team no matter what. Don’t make the fans endure the absolute rubbish Lewis coughs up every week just to prove a point. That’s pretty irresponsible.

 

[Snake]

The Tim Winitana / Heka Nanai days were dark days indeed and this season feels much the same unfortunately. What’s most depressing is finding a way out of this hole seems so far away. How do we manufacture a quality spine in time for 2021. Recruitment need to perform a minor miracle.

 

[The_Chimpster]

Every team should be trying to bend the rules to get a competitive advantage. That's what all the top teams do. I have no issue with the Roosters or Storm doing it.

You really shouldn't bring up the sombrero unless it's a joke. You lose all credibility if you actually believe that. A top team has an advantage in recruitment. Top players will want to play for you for what they're worth. As long as they're at the top this will always be the case. The Roosters' don't pay overs therefore they don't have dead cap space.

If you truly believe that then you are one deluded individual

 

[Horse]

Great in theory but we aren’t signing anyone with this “war chest” now that they finally can stop hiding behind the excuses of blaming des etc so how??

Far too early to draw that conclusion chief.

Most of these signings won’t be announced until later in the year to avoid disruption to the clubs playing groups involved where possible.

 

[doggieaaron]

Far too early to draw that conclusion chief.

Most of these signings won’t be announced until later in the year to avoid disruption to the clubs playing groups involved where possible.

Yes there’s always tomorrow and your unwavering loyalty to the club no matter what they are doing is admirable but also at the same time if they arent performing they aren’t performing and it is what it is and their performance in most areas are very very poor ,ive supported the club for 43 years but lately all i hear is a million excuses

 

[bradyk]

If you truly believe that then you are one deluded individual

You're believing in a conspiracy theory with zero evidence. That makes you the deluded or jealous one, sir.

 

[SweetFA]

... and we have Castle and Dib to blame. If we recruit well for 2021 we'll be top eight. Hang in there!

To preface, I’m no Dib supporter, however.....
That Dib/Castle blame rhetoric is as weak as wet toilet paper. The labyrinth the club finds itself in, if you care to know was designed by Greenberg & engineered by Hasler. It was Hasler who commanded autonomy of the Football Department for the term of his contract, effectively forcing both the CEO & the Chairman to acquiesce his decisions.
To state that “we have Dib & Castle to blame “ is incorrect, misinformed and baseless.
At the very least, get the names and facts right if you want a little credibility:-Greenberg & Hasler.
This current administration has had a full term and at this point in time have regressed in every aspect.

 

[youoboys]

At least we get it together in 09 by recruiting Morris, Ennis, hannant, stag Goodwin, Eastwood. And should have made the GF that year.

Unless we get proactive asap there doesn't look to be any sun on the horizon for quite some time to come

Bulldogs fan here: you’re a negative Nancy !!

 

[Bazildog]

Has there been a worse time for our club?

Yes, when I woke up this morning and some prick told me the Tooth fairy wasn't real and Bellamy wasn't coming...

 

[The_Chimpster]

Bulldogs fan here: you’re a negative Nancy !!

Thanks for the input nasweed

 

[youoboys]

Thanks for the input nasweed

Bulldogs fan here: just be positive bro

 

[bradyk]

To preface, I’m no Dib supporter, however.....
That Dib/Castle blame rhetoric is as weak as wet toilet paper. The labyrinth the club finds itself in, if you care to designed by Greenberg & engineered by Hasler. It was Hasler who commanded autonomy of the Football Department for the term of his contract, effectively forcing both the CEO & the Chairman to acquiesce his decisions.
To state that “we have Dib & Castle to blame “ is incorrect, misinformed and baseless.
At the very least, get the names and facts right if you want a little credibility:-Greenberg & Hasler.
This current administration has had a full term and at this point in time have regressed in every aspect.

I don't blame Greenberg, Hasler or our current board (yet). Sorry .

 

[SweetFA]

I don't blame Greenberg, Hasler or our current board (yet). Sorry .

No need to apologise, just to get your facts right.

As for a top 8 recruitment drive- it’s on the current board to finally step up if we’re any chance. We haven’t hit rock bottom yet.

 

[DinkumDog]

No need to apologise, just to get your facts right.

As for a top 8 recruitment drive- it’s on the current board to finally step up if we’re any chance. We haven’t hit rock bottom yet.

I think you’re both right to an extent.

Hasler’s original contract was 5 years 2013-17 inclusive. He of course ended up coming a year early so that turned into a 6 year deal. He did demand and get full autonomy of the football department and that was on Greenberg.

He was then extended by Dib/Castle for 2 years for 2018/19 - with less power - the deal that was rescinded and we ended up having to settle on after he sued. This was after the 2016 events where Turvey stepped down from the board after saying the club had ‘lost their way’ under Hasler.

So that’s all true @SweetFA, you’re right.

That said, I think @bradyk has a valid point regarding the cap. It was Dib who bet and bet wrong on that - planning that the cap would be closer to $10m (or at least $9.5m) for 2018. The NRL originally planned for $9.2m. It ended up at $9.4m but that didn’t matter, Foran and Woods were signed and those other contracts including Eastwood were coming into those expensive back-ends.

Castle was a nobody. Dib and Hasler had the power in that era. The rest is history and we’re just about out of that tunnel.

 

[SweetFA]

I think you’re both right to an extent.

Hasler’s original contract was 5 years 2013-17 inclusive. He of course ended up coming a year early so that turned into a 6 year deal. He did demand and get full autonomy of the football department and that was on Greenberg.

He was then extended by Dib/Castle for 2 years for 2018/19 - with less power - the deal that was rescinded and we ended up having to settle on after he sued. This was after the 2016 events where Turvey stepped down from the board after saying the club had ‘lost their way’ under Hasler.

So that’s all true @SweetFA, you’re right.

That said, I think @bradyk has a valid point regarding the cap. It was Dib who bet and bet wrong on that - planning that the cap would be closer to $10m (or at least $9.5m) for 2018. The NRL originally planned for $9.2m. It ended up at $9.4m but that didn’t matter, Foran and Woods were signed and those other contracts including Eastwood were coming into those expensive back-ends.

Castle was a nobody. Dib and Hasler had the power in that era. The rest is history and we’re just about out of that tunnel.

Dib’s major error was renewing Hasler’s contract without removing the autonomy of the football department clause. The salary cap limit was irrelevant whether it was $9.2,$9.4 or $10m the discrepancy was equivalent to 1 elite player contract no big deal on the scale.
That said his next error was the back breaker, he took Hasler at his word “ to be financially diligent“ moving forward. This is where plodders were paid superstar/elite money. Dib’s hands were tied -Hasler promised a title & Dib paid the ultimate price for this trust ....the relationship became acrimonious & untenable. We know how that story ended.
What we need to remember is:-
Under Dib and the previous board/administration,the Club was financially strong with our playing strip sponsorship in excess of $2.5m p.a and an auxiliary of willing 3rd parties.
Sadly none of this exists now.

 

[DinkumDog]

Dib’s major error was renewing Hasler’s contract without removing the autonomy of the football department clause. The salary cap limit was irrelevant whether it was $9.2,$9.4 or $10m the discrepancy was equivalent to 1 elite player contract no big deal on the scale.
That said his next error was the back breaker, he took Hasler at his word “ to be financially diligent“ moving forward. This is where plodders were paid superstar/elite money. Dib’s hands were tied -Hasler promised a title & Dib paid the ultimate price for this trust ....the relationship became acrimonious & untenable. We know how that story ended.
What we need to remember is:-
Under Dib and the previous board/administration,the Club was financially strong with our playing strip sponsorship in excess of $2.5m p.a and an auxiliary of willing 3rd parties.
Sadly none of this exists now.

It’s still a big deal though because it pushed us over the cap, the squad had to be gutted and now we have a team largely of non first graders as a result.

And yes, decisions such as T. Williams on $2m/4yrs were criminal among others. Even with Hasler’s autonomy on signings, where was the financial oversight? That was Castle and the boards job. They were asleep at the wheel.

Sure, that’s true re: playing strip etc, but the fleas come with the dog - previous good work was always going to come crashing down because of big mistakes. KIA as an example were never going to pay top dollar again when our squad was full of reserve graders. That soon ends - several of the current squad won’t be renewed after this season.

Now it’s on the current admin to deliver what they promised - a competitive team for 2021. Assuming they deliver that - the rest should follow - crowds, memberships, merch, sponsors etc.

If it doesn’t - pretty obvious that change will be afoot in early 2022. I, for the sake of the club and not any individuals hope it doesn’t come to that. We all want our team back to where they should be. Let’s see what happens when the final siren sounds.

 

[SweetFA]

It’s still a big deal though because it pushed us over the cap, the squad had to be gutted and now we have a team largely of non first graders as a result.

And yes, decisions such as T. Williams on $2m/4yrs were criminal among others. Even with Hasler’s autonomy on signings, where was the financial oversight? That was Castle and the boards job. They were asleep at the wheel.

Sure, that’s true re: playing strip etc, but the fleas come with the dog - previous good work was always going to come crashing down because of big mistakes. KIA as an example were never going to pay top dollar again when our squad was full of reserve graders. That soon ends - several of the current squad won’t be renewed after this season.

Now it’s on the current admin to deliver what they promised - a competitive team for 2021. Assuming they deliver that - the rest should follow - crowds, memberships, merch, sponsors etc.

If it doesn’t - pretty obvious that change will be afoot in early 2022. I, for the sake of the club and not any individuals hope it doesn’t come to that. We all want our team back to where they should be. Let’s see what happens when the final siren sounds.

Agreed, Dib’s administration should have targeted “a wartime consigliere” rather than the PC appointment of Castle to at least attempt to “keep the bastard honest” & butt heads with Hasler. Enough about the past Board, plenty of water has passed under the bridge since.

So let’s give our current administration an assessment & report card. It is no coincidence that the major sponsors jumped ship as soon as they could after initial interactions with the current administration.Off the top of my head:-putting a monetary sum to the commercial loss
Kia front of jersey. $1.3m
Jaycar back of jersey $600k
Wicked Sista shorts $300k

That’s $2.2m all accountable to the previous administration as a result of good personal/commercial relationships.
As for our roster;
when this current administration took over they promptly attempted to get their house in order.
Mbye was released mid year after signing with the Tigers by June 30. $600k
Woods was put out to tender a few clubs were interested but the deal was struck with the Sharks where the Dogs would contribute 25% of his contract rumoured $700k ($125k out of our salary cap for the remainder of 2018 & 2019 seasons).
By the end of the season cap compliant, Eastwood off the books rumoured $800k & Lichaa released. J Morris unwanted. B Morris unwanted 2019 moving forward.
The only backended deals all expiring season end 2020 are Tolman, Hopoate & Elliott a combined ball park figure $1.8m.
Considering the deregistration of the Port Macquarie 2, there’s at least $800k in the kitty.
So under this administration we have moved on:
Mbye SOO player
Eastwood international
J Morris international
B Morris international
A Woods international
Lichaa plodder
CHN international
Okunbur promising local talent??????

Their replacements
L Lewis NSW Cup
JMK NSW Cup
Sue 5 NRL seasons Samoan international
Meaney NSW Cup
Cogger NSW Cup
CHN international gone
DWZ international
Britt NSWCup
Stimson NSW Cup

Lewis, Britt, & Stimson,Meaney & Cogger were Pay signings.
JMK & Sue were McDonnell
CHN & DWZ were thanks to M Hughes.
They missed the boat on H Grant, Koroisau (to name 2 candidates ) for arguably our most vulnerable position.
I’m still cautiously optimistic that they are playing their cards close to their chest and have 4 major signings as well as a well-credentialed coach to be announced in the near future.

They are one quarter of the way into their 2nd term, to date this Board collectively have performed underwhelmingly. They have regressed in every aspect of Football Club operations & administration Grade: D-

As You know Dinkum, Getting major sponsors in the current environment, given we are but 1 of at least 7 franchises in the Greater Sydney area without taking into consideration other codes; it’s easier to look after an existing sponsor than it is to find a new one.

 

[Calibra]

We have been totally noncompetitive for 4-5 years now... we are now getting smashed rather easily by the better teams and our roster is crap. On top of that almost every player we have let go of, or brought in, have gotten better under better management and coaching, whilst those that come to us, almost immediately depreciate on the field and become powder puffs or look trapped as we have not had a decent hooker or halfs paring in many years now so this has to be up there with the worst time of our once proud club.