Gay marriage plebiscite - Result YES to SSM

Should the law be changed to allow same-sex couples to marry?

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CroydonDog

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Anyone remember those nutters from Canberra who vowed to divorce if SSM got up? Well, surprise, surprise, they aren't going through with it....

Too bad. So sad.

What now for couple who vowed to divorce if gay marriage became legal?
THIS couple who declared their decade-long marriage would be over if gay marriage became legal have spoken after tonight’s vote.


Debbie Schipp
@debbieschipp

news.com.auDECEMBER 7, 20177:21PM

THEY vowed to divorce if Australia said Yes to same sex marriage.

They’ve been in a holding pattern since the postal survey gave them their answer.

But Nick and Sarah Jensen said they’d wait to see what shape the law took in parliament.

Now they know.

And, well, their response might disappoint you.

In a statement to news.com.au immediately after Australia’s House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to legalise same sex marriage, Mr Jensen backed away from his once-bold stance.

“My previous public comments regarding civil divorce never envisaged me separating from my wife, but rather our marriage from the state,” he said.

“The legislation currently makes it untenable for us to do this under the law. The point we were highlighting and that still stands however is the fact that a redefinition of marriage changes the agreement under which we were originally married.

“We will be making no further comment.”


The Christian couple captured national attention in 2015 with a very public pledge to end their marriage — despite the fact they’re very much in love — if gay couples were also allowed to wed.

“My wife and I just celebrated our 10th wedding anniversary but later this year we may be getting a divorce,” Mr Jensen told Canberra City News back then.



“As Christians, we believe marriage is not a human invention,” he wrote.

“Our view is that marriage is a fundamental order of creation. Part of God’s intimate story for human history. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman before a community in the sight of God. And the marriage of any couple is important to God regardless of whether that couple recognises God’s involvement or authority in it.

“My wife and I, as a matter of conscience, refuse to recognise the government’s regulation of marriage if its definition includes the solemnisation of same sex couples.”

But he said it would not be a traditional divorce.

“After our divorce, we’ll continue to live together, hopefully for another 50 years. And, God willing, we’ll have more children. We’ll also continue to refer to each other as ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ and consider ourselves married by the Church and before God.”

After the public divorce proclamation, 100,000 people signed up to attend a Facebook event called ‘Celebrating Nick and Sarah Jensen’s divorce’.

When the same sex survey Yes result was announced last month, quick-thinking lawyer Michael Tiyce offered to help them with the legalities of divorce.

“My firm does quite a bit of pro bono work in family law each year in the gay, lesbian and trans community. I thought offering assistance to Nick and Sarah would be an excellent way of reaching out across communities with my family law expertise, because quite simply they are going to need it,” he said.

It would be needed for questions like whether the couple could legally divorce without separating for one year, as Federal law requires.

The Jensen’s didn’t take up the offer.

Mr Jensen told the Mail Online he and Sarah would wait to see what any change to the marriage law is before publicly announcing their future plans.

‘We just need to see the legislation and if it all goes that way,’ he said.


Picture of a post on Nick Jensen's Facebook page. Source: Facebook/Nick JensenSource:Facebook

‘Then we know what situation we’re in and what we’re going to do.’

The pair maintained a low profile in the media throughout the debate, but the Nick Jensen Facebook page carried a picture of the couple with an, “It’s OK to vote No” Coalition for Marriage banner, and featured posts with Mr Jensen debating the issue.

Mr and Mrs Jensen married at the age of 21 and were high school sweethearts for several years before that.

“When we signed that official-looking marriage certificate 10 years ago at Tuggeranong Baptist Church, we understood that the state was endorsing marriage, as currently defined, as the fundamental social institution — with all that this implied,” Mr Jensen wrote in 2015.

“But if this is no longer the case, then we no longer wish to be associated with this new definition.

“The truth is, ‘marriage’ is simply too important. It is a sacred institution, ordained by God. It has always been understood to be that exclusive relationship where one man and one woman become “one flesh”. Any attempt to change the definition of marriage by law is not something in which we are able to partake.”

The response to their declaration was vicious, with Mr Jensen’s brother, Soren, penning his own article, saying that while he disagreed with Nick’s stance, he respected and defended his right to say and believe it.

“He is not a loony, a religious nut or any of the many other descriptions being thrown around. Nor is he a hateful person,” Soren wrote.

“He is an intelligent, reasoned man making an argument and a stand on his principles and his religious truth on this issue.

“But his statement has hurt people. He is actively involved in the Australian Christian Lobby and this is their moment in the sun on the issue. And the internet has responded accordingly.

“I disapprove of what my brother has said, but I will defend to the death his right to say it. And your right to respond. But let’s do so in a way that is constructive.”.
 

The DoggFather

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Anyone remember those nutters from Canberra who vowed to divorce if SSM got up? Well, surprise, surprise, they aren't going through with it....

Too bad. So sad.

What now for couple who vowed to divorce if gay marriage became legal?
THIS couple who declared their decade-long marriage would be over if gay marriage became legal have spoken after tonight’s vote.


Debbie Schipp
@debbieschipp

news.com.auDECEMBER 7, 20177:21PM

THEY vowed to divorce if Australia said Yes to same sex marriage.

They’ve been in a holding pattern since the postal survey gave them their answer.

But Nick and Sarah Jensen said they’d wait to see what shape the law took in parliament.

Now they know.

And, well, their response might disappoint you.

In a statement to news.com.au immediately after Australia’s House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to legalise same sex marriage, Mr Jensen backed away from his once-bold stance.

“My previous public comments regarding civil divorce never envisaged me separating from my wife, but rather our marriage from the state,” he said.

“The legislation currently makes it untenable for us to do this under the law. The point we were highlighting and that still stands however is the fact that a redefinition of marriage changes the agreement under which we were originally married.

“We will be making no further comment.”


The Christian couple captured national attention in 2015 with a very public pledge to end their marriage — despite the fact they’re very much in love — if gay couples were also allowed to wed.

“My wife and I just celebrated our 10th wedding anniversary but later this year we may be getting a divorce,” Mr Jensen told Canberra City News back then.



“As Christians, we believe marriage is not a human invention,” he wrote.

“Our view is that marriage is a fundamental order of creation. Part of God’s intimate story for human history. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman before a community in the sight of God. And the marriage of any couple is important to God regardless of whether that couple recognises God’s involvement or authority in it.

“My wife and I, as a matter of conscience, refuse to recognise the government’s regulation of marriage if its definition includes the solemnisation of same sex couples.”

But he said it would not be a traditional divorce.

“After our divorce, we’ll continue to live together, hopefully for another 50 years. And, God willing, we’ll have more children. We’ll also continue to refer to each other as ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ and consider ourselves married by the Church and before God.”

After the public divorce proclamation, 100,000 people signed up to attend a Facebook event called ‘Celebrating Nick and Sarah Jensen’s divorce’.

When the same sex survey Yes result was announced last month, quick-thinking lawyer Michael Tiyce offered to help them with the legalities of divorce.

“My firm does quite a bit of pro bono work in family law each year in the gay, lesbian and trans community. I thought offering assistance to Nick and Sarah would be an excellent way of reaching out across communities with my family law expertise, because quite simply they are going to need it,” he said.

It would be needed for questions like whether the couple could legally divorce without separating for one year, as Federal law requires.

The Jensen’s didn’t take up the offer.

Mr Jensen told the Mail Online he and Sarah would wait to see what any change to the marriage law is before publicly announcing their future plans.

‘We just need to see the legislation and if it all goes that way,’ he said.


Picture of a post on Nick Jensen's Facebook page. Source: Facebook/Nick JensenSource:Facebook

‘Then we know what situation we’re in and what we’re going to do.’

The pair maintained a low profile in the media throughout the debate, but the Nick Jensen Facebook page carried a picture of the couple with an, “It’s OK to vote No” Coalition for Marriage banner, and featured posts with Mr Jensen debating the issue.

Mr and Mrs Jensen married at the age of 21 and were high school sweethearts for several years before that.

“When we signed that official-looking marriage certificate 10 years ago at Tuggeranong Baptist Church, we understood that the state was endorsing marriage, as currently defined, as the fundamental social institution — with all that this implied,” Mr Jensen wrote in 2015.

“But if this is no longer the case, then we no longer wish to be associated with this new definition.

“The truth is, ‘marriage’ is simply too important. It is a sacred institution, ordained by God. It has always been understood to be that exclusive relationship where one man and one woman become “one flesh”. Any attempt to change the definition of marriage by law is not something in which we are able to partake.”

The response to their declaration was vicious, with Mr Jensen’s brother, Soren, penning his own article, saying that while he disagreed with Nick’s stance, he respected and defended his right to say and believe it.

“He is not a loony, a religious nut or any of the many other descriptions being thrown around. Nor is he a hateful person,” Soren wrote.

“He is an intelligent, reasoned man making an argument and a stand on his principles and his religious truth on this issue.

“But his statement has hurt people. He is actively involved in the Australian Christian Lobby and this is their moment in the sun on the issue. And the internet has responded accordingly.

“I disapprove of what my brother has said, but I will defend to the death his right to say it. And your right to respond. But let’s do so in a way that is constructive.”.
Fkn Lol, they just made themselves look like bigger douches than they already are.

"A man who doesn't keep his word is not a man" - TANK
 

CroydonDog

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Fkn Lol, they just made themselves look like bigger douches than they already are.

"A man who doesn't keep his word is not a man" - TANK
I think the thing was they thought they would be able ot get some sort of "legal" divorce, but keep their God one or something.

Only problem is, of course, you have to be separated (including physically) for 12 months before applying for a divorce :grinning:
 

Wahesh

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Ok so I'll have one final say here and it's all from a religious perspective.

I am a practicing Catholic, and as such my religion is a big part of who I am today, and also conducts how I live my life on a day to day basis, and what I do in my life. I am by no means perfect, and like many people, I am absolutely sick to death of all the "priests" and other members within Christianity who commit crimes such as rape, pedophilia etc... these people are disgusting and are not true Christian people. They deserve the same fate as those who commit these crimes who are not within Christianity.

I know we have some gay people here, and I'm going to state this outright... I DO NOT AND NEVER WILL HATE YOU. I like, in fact you could say I love you, because YOU are a child of God, YOU are a gift to someone, and YOU are, just like everyone else, flesh and blood. We all enter the world innocent. Homosexuality is NOT a choice, and you cannot control who you are and who you are attracted to, and it's very important for you to know that Catholic church knows this, the Catholic church does NOT judge you on this, and the Catholic church WELCOMES YOU into their walls and welcomes you to their service.

The issue that we have is not that there are gay people, however it is itself, the act of homosexuality which we believe is a sin. There are gay people within the Catholic church who put their faith ahead of their sexuality and do not engage in homosexual activity as they believe it's a sin, do not get married, and die virgins. They do this for their faith. It may be sad, but it's also humble and honorable.

What I was hoping that people of my faith could salvage from this all, was very simple - religious freedom. And now we have lost that too. All we have now is our faith, but our faith is big. It's the biggest part of our lives, and that will not be broken. We will continue to pray for those who we believe are sinning, we continue to love those who we believe are sinning, and this includes ourselves, because we all are sinners, except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We ask that people out there, whether you are for, against, or neutral, simply respect us and our beliefs, and we will respect you as humans and children, gifts, from God.

Peace.
 
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The DoggFather

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Ok so I'll have one final say here and it's all from a religious perspective.

I am a practicing Catholic, and as such my religion is a big part of who I am today, and also conducts how I live my life on a day to say basis, and what I do in my life. I am by no means perfect, and like many people, I am absoutely sick to death of all the "priests" and other members within Christianity who commit crimes such as rape, pedophilia etc... these people are disgusting and are not true Christian people. They deserve the same fate as those who commit these crimes who are not within Christianity.

I know we have same gay people here, and I'm going to state this outright... I DO NOT AND NEVER WILL HATE YOU. I like, in fact you could say I love you, because YOU are a child of God, YOU are a gift to someone, and YOU are, just like everyone else, flesh and blood. We all enter the world innocent. Homosexuality is NOT a choice, and you cannot control who you are and who you are attracted to, and it's very important for you to know that Catholic church knows this, the Catholic church does NOT judge you on this, and the Catholic church WELCOMES YOU into their walls and welcomes you to their service.

The issue that we have is not that there are gay people, however it is itself, the act of homosexuality which we believe is a sin. There are gay people within the Catholic church who put their faith ahead of their sexuality and do not engage in homosexual activity as the believe it's a sin, do not get married, and die virgins. They do this for their faith. It may be sad, but it's also humble and honorable.

What I was hoping that people of my faith could salvage from this all, was very simple - religious freedom. And now we have lost that too. All we have now is our faith, but our faith is big. It's the biggest part of our lives, and that will not be broken. We will continue to pray for those who we believe are sinning, we continue to love those who we believe are sinning, and this includes ourselves, because we all are sinners, except our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We ask that people our there, whether you are for, against, or neutral, simply respect us and our beliefs, and we will respect you as humans and children, gifts, from God.

Peace.
Wait a minute? I thought our Churches are protected? Did the corrupt evil government do what I knew they would do?
 

CaptainJackson

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Wait a minute? I thought our Churches are protected? Did the corrupt evil government do what I knew they would do?
They are protected, Wahesh is complaining about not having the "choice" of telling someone, in the world outside of churches, that he doesn't want to interact with them purely based on their sexual orientation

Honestly Wahesh, you would've been much better off just saying "to you, your way, to me, mine" and left it at that. Your post still attacks the LGBT community, I'm not going into details, but just advising that the rest of us don't want to hear about your religion, you believe it, it's fine, but just don't give us religions morality because we aren't interested in it
 

CroydonDog

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They are protected, Wahesh is complaining about not having the "choice" of telling someone, in the world outside of churches, that he doesn't want to interact with them purely based on their sexual orientation

Honestly Wahesh, you would've been much better off just saying "to you, your way, to me, mine" and left it at that. Your post still attacks the LGBT community, I'm not going into details, but just advising that the rest of us don't want to hear about your religion, you believe it, it's fine, but just don't give us religions morality because we aren't interested in it
His 2nd and 3rd paragraphs were amongst the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read on the Kennel.

The justification some people use for their actions...
 

Wahesh

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Wait a minute? I thought our Churches are protected? Did the corrupt evil government do what I knew they would do?
All of them were voted down, all of them.
 

CaptainJackson

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All of them were voted down, all of them.
the amendments and exceptions that were voted down that you're talking about would have rolled back anti-discrimination laws. They weren't about protecting your religious beliefs, they were about the ability to once more attack LGBT people.
 

CroydonDog

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the bills and exceptions that were voted down that you're talking about would have rolled back anti-discrimination laws. They weren't about protecting your religious beliefs, they were about the ability to once more attack LGBT people.
Some will harp on about the anti discrimination laws being too strict, whilst wanting laws change to actively discriminate.

I think, in a way, business should be able to discriminate - but of course, consumers and the public can then use their own freedom of speech to ensure those pricks are rightly ridiculed.
 

Wahesh

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They are protected, Wahesh is complaining about not having the "choice" of telling someone, in the world outside of churches, that he doesn't want to interact with them purely based on their sexual orientation

Honestly Wahesh, you would've been much better off just saying "to you, your way, to me, mine" and left it at that. Your post still attacks the LGBT community, I'm not going into details, but just advising that the rest of us don't want to hear about your religion, you believe it, it's fine, but just don't give us religions morality because we aren't interested in it
Peace be with you.
 

CaptainJackson

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Some will harp on about the anti discrimination laws being too strict, whilst wanting laws change to actively discriminate.

I think, in a way, business should be able to discriminate - but of course, consumers and the public can then use their own freedom of speech to ensure those pricks are rightly ridiculed.
But you don't see business's asking their customers to fill in a questionnaire, before servicing them, to determine if any of the customers actions/beliefs break the business owner's religious code thereby granting the business a religious exemption from servicing that customer.

So why is it that out of all the people of many different walks of life, that only the LGBT community be targeted?

That is straight out discrimination, and while the rest of us have said fine have that discrimination in your churches as it's part of your "beliefs", don't apply it in the secular world where we are all bound by Australia's secular laws
 

Hacky McAxe

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Wait a minute? I thought our Churches are protected? Did the corrupt evil government do what I knew they would do?
They are. Churches are protected. No religious protections were lost. The amendments that the Conservatives attempted to put in basically said that non-religious celebrants could refuse gay people, and anyone who doesn't like gay people can refuse to serve gay people. The church is still protected but they wanted to make it so that anyone could discriminate against gay people because they don't like them. That's why those amendments were voted down.

The funny thing is that Senator Leyonhjelm suggested a bill to appease them that said "Any business owner can choose to refuse to serve someone for any reason", but the Conservatives didn't want this. They don't care about blacks, or asians, or people who are too tall. They just want to be able to put up signs in their flower shops that say "No gays allowed" and they think that is their privilege.
 

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But you don't see business's asking their customers to fill in a questionnaire, before servicing them, to determine if any of the customers actions/beliefs break the business owner's religious code thereby granting the business a religious exemption from servicing that customer.

So why is it that out of all the people of many different walks of life, that only the LGBT community be targeted?

That is straight out discrimination, and while the rest of us have said fine have that discrimination in your churches as it's part of your "beliefs", don't apply it in the secular world where we are all bound by Australia's secular laws
Sorry, i should have been clearer, I'm talking ab out all discrimination, like Hacky has mentioned a few times.

Don't want to rent a black person your house? Your right! But then its also their "freedom" for them to get everyone they know to give your business poor reviews and to start up facebook pages against you :grinning: You can bet your bippy that real estate agent, after being run out of town will be first to cry foul at the "bullying" they endured.

But we will never live in this world (probably thankfully) - so we have anti-discrimination laws to protect people from prejudice and discrimination.
 

Hacky McAxe

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His 2nd and 3rd paragraphs were amongst the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read on the Kennel.

The justification some people use for their actions...
When did you block Brit Wall/Dawgfather?
 

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@Wahesh @TANK 2.0

Here ya go guys. Here's the details on the religious part:

"What can a minister of religion do?
The legislation makes it clear that religious ministers will have the right to refuse to marry a same-sex couple.

They can do so if same-sex marriage is contrary to their religious beliefs, or the beliefs of their church.

This is outlined in section 47a of the bill, which allows ministers to object to a marriage for other reasons too.

This religious protection has bipartisan support.

What about churches?
Churches or religious organisations will be allowed to refuse access to their facilities if they're being used for a same-sex marriage.

They can only do so if the wedding does not conform to their religious views of marriage.

So far, this section is also unchallenged."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-29/same-sex-marriage-what-is-in-and-what-is-out/9205400
 
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