News Folau case may send Rugby Australia broke.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Caveman

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
4,393
The problem for most people is not evidence of God's existence (most people say if God exists I won't follow him cause he's a fruitloop)... So it becomes that if God exists they would not want anything to do with Him...

In fact ... They (we as humans) so grotesquely want nothing to do with Him they (we) will do all they can to avoid acknowledging Him and even more to avoid pursuing Knowledge of Him.
 

Hacky McAxe

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Gilded
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
37,041
Reaction score
29,421
Is it physically impossible for one God to create and sustain all things?

Is it physically improbable for this creator to not have any control over his creation... Including the gathering of animals into a boat?

Is it physically possible to fit the specified species according to scripture on to the ark as diamentionally dictated by scripture?

Did animals fear humans before the ark according to scripture?

If God exists would you submit to him?
Personally I'm not sure what I would say if God presented himself to me. I'd probably laugh and call him fake but then he'd probably haduken me into oblivion.

That said, I've always liked the quote that was found etched on the wall of a Jewish concentration camp. "If God exists he will have to beg for my forgiveness"
 

Hacky McAxe

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Gilded
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
37,041
Reaction score
29,421
The problem for most people is not evidence of God's existence (most people say if God exists I won't follow him cause he's a fruitloop)... So it becomes that if God exists they would not want anything to do with Him...

In fact ... They (we as humans) so grotesquely want nothing to do with Him they (we) will do all they can to avoid acknowledging Him and even more to avoid pursuing Knowledge of Him.
I don't think it's that personally. Many just prefer to believe what they can see and verify.

Take climate change for an example. There's ridiculous amounts of evidence of it but people still don't believe it's real because they can't verify it themselves.

It's even more difficult with God when no one can verify it.
 

Caveman

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
4,393
Personally I'm not sure what I would say if God presented himself to me. I'd probably laugh and call him fake but then he'd probably haduken me into oblivion.

That said, I've always liked the quote that was found etched on the wall of a Jewish concentration camp. "If God exists he will have to beg for my forgiveness"
U answered the 5th question {with a emphatic "no" I must add}, what about the preceding 4 questions?

Seriously... Have a look into it and let me know.
 

Caveman

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
4,393
I don't think it's that personally. Many just prefer to believe what they can see and verify.

Take climate change for an example. There's ridiculous amounts of evidence of it but people still don't believe it's real because they can't verify it themselves.

It's even more difficult with God when no one can verify it.
It's what God states as truth in his Bible, he either created All or he didn't....

If he is who He says he is we all have a big problem - that thankfully He provided a solution for.

If he does not exist... Murder, rape, incest, survival of the fittest, eat or be eaten, no need for conscious or good will, is all on the table.


What hope is there without the existance of God.

There's no justice in this life cause good and bad is a illusion or perhaps a concoction of the imagination, and there is certainly no account for our lives after we die so justice cannot exist, good and evil can not exist.

If none of that exists, truth can not exist... Truth can only be found in God.

Denial of God is Supreme elevation of man.. the "you can be like God" lie told by Satan in the garden of Eden.

Denial of God (to me) is scary.
 

Realist90

Kennel Legend
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
13,949
Reaction score
3,261
It's what God states as truth in his Bible, he either created All or he didn't....

If he is who He says he is we all have a big problem - that thankfully He provided a solution for.

If he does not exist... Murder, rape, incest, survival of the fittest, eat or be eaten, no need for conscious or good will, is all on the table.


What hope is there without the existance of God.

There's no justice in this life cause good and bad is a illusion or perhaps a concoction of the imagination, and there is certainly no account for our lives after we die so justice cannot exist, good and evil can not exist.

If none of that exists, truth can not exist... Truth can only be found in God.

Denial of God is Supreme elevation of man.. the "you can be like God" lie told by Satan in the garden of Eden.

Denial of God (to me) is scary.
Individualism in my opinion is that downfall of man including the loss of morals. We see today more and more immoral acts are being justified and normal due to individuals saying it is ok and using “empathy” and political correctness to have it become almost law in many countries.
Like you say, if we don’t get our morals from God, where do we get them and what is the line? If it’s just whatever anyone thinks is ok well then we are in big fkn trouble and that’s exactly what is happening today. Murder can be justified by the perpetrators, rape can, incest, terrorism, antifa etc. So I think society is really going down this slippery slope of, if an individual seems it a-ok then more and more immoral shit will be passed off as moral. Just like how chopping ones dick off is now a moral and empathetic act lol.
Also like you say good and bad is more of an illusion and way more political than anything whence God is eliminated from that equation. Good only becomes what society decides is good, but that could be evil in the lords eyes and will doom many.
My favourite quote from the bible is where Jesus tells saint peter that he will be killed and betrayed, saint peter says never lord I will stop and protect you from that ever happening, (Peter in his human mind was thinking he is doing good) but ultimately he was getting in the way of Gods plan which was to give salvation to many and die for our sins. Jesus turned to peter and said begone Satan.
Anyways this is why we need the Catholic monarchs back. Nothing good came from the French Revolution besides the justification of beheading those who opposed them, brought about feminism, masons helped them out, eliminated God out of the hearts and minds and instilled a godless society that is based off human ignorance.
 

Caveman

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
4,393
Individualism in my opinion is that downfall of man including the loss of morals. We see today more and more immoral acts are being justified and normal due to individuals saying it is ok and using “empathy” and political correctness to have it become almost law in many countries.
Like you say, if we don’t get our morals from God, where do we get them and what is the line? If it’s just whatever anyone thinks is ok well then we are in big fkn trouble and that’s exactly what is happening today. Murder can be justified by the perpetrators, rape can, incest, terrorism, antifa etc. So I think society is really going down this slippery slope of, if an individual seems it a-ok then more and more immoral shit will be passed off as moral. Just like how chopping ones dick off is now a moral and empathetic act lol.
Also like you say good and bad is more of an illusion and way more political than anything whence God is eliminated from that equation. Good only becomes what society decides is good, but that could be evil in the lords eyes and will doom many.
My favourite quote from the bible is where Jesus tells saint peter that he will be killed and betrayed, saint peter says never lord I will stop and protect you from that ever happening, (Peter in his human mind was thinking he is doing good) but ultimately he was getting in the way of Gods plan which was to give salvation to many and die for our sins. Jesus turned to peter and said begone Satan.
Anyways this is why we need the Catholic monarchs back. Nothing good came from the French Revolution besides the justification of beheading those who opposed them, brought about feminism, masons helped them out, eliminated God out of the hearts and minds and instilled a godless society that is based off human ignorance.
For me, personally, atleast at the moment society as a whole I can not help, however I can help individuals understand Christian doctrine and how it lines up with reality (atleast in my mind).

I can happily answer genuine questions about Christianity and the possibility of God as a explanation for both our purpose and existence (again at least in my mind which has come about by genuine personal curiosity, study, analyzation, meditation along with personal testimony / experience).
 

Flanagun

Banned
In the Sin Bin
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
22,588
Reaction score
20,580
It's what God states as truth in his Bible, he either created All or he didn't....

If he is who He says he is we all have a big problem - that thankfully He provided a solution for.

If he does not exist... Murder, rape, incest, survival of the fittest, eat or be eaten, no need for conscious or good will, is all on the table.


What hope is there without the existance of God.

There's no justice in this life cause good and bad is a illusion or perhaps a concoction of the imagination, and there is certainly no account for our lives after we die so justice cannot exist, good and evil can not exist.

If none of that exists, truth can not exist... Truth can only be found in God.

Denial of God is Supreme elevation of man.. the "you can be like God" lie told by Satan in the garden of Eden.

Denial of God (to me) is scary.
The whole problem with the hypothesis that good and morality can not exist without a God is that many who claim yo live on service to Him are complete and utter ***** who lack compassion and empathy.on the other hand, there are many decent/ good natured people out there and while many of them are religious, many live their lives completely independently of any form of dogmatic faith.
 

Hacky McAxe

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Gilded
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
37,041
Reaction score
29,421
Is it physically impossible for one God to create and sustain all things?
If God exists then it's physically impossible for him to do anything. Except microwave a burrito so hot even he can't eat it.

Is it physically improbable for this creator to not have any control over his creation... Including the gathering of animals into a boat?
This opens a philosophical can of worms. If we're taking about the Abrahamic God and the bible is literal then anything is possible. But this long with many other factors in the bible could negate free will, which would also negate the bible being literal. If you don't take the bible literally then it's possible God just left us to do whatever we want.

Is it physically possible to fit the specified species according to scripture on to the ark as diamentionally dictated by scripture?
Maybe the ark is actually Doctor Who's TARDIS.

Did animals fear humans before the ark according to scripture?
No idea, but I don't think that's the main issue. Logistics is the problem. Getting animals from all around the world to travel to a single location would be impossible without some magical devine intervention. God teleportation.

If God exists would you submit to him?
Already covered but maybe, maybe not.
 

Hacky McAxe

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Gilded
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
37,041
Reaction score
29,421
It's what God states as truth in his Bible, he either created All or he didn't....

If he is who He says he is we all have a big problem - that thankfully He provided a solution for.

If he does not exist... Murder, rape, incest, survival of the fittest, eat or be eaten, no need for conscious or good will, is all on the table.


What hope is there without the existance of God.

There's no justice in this life cause good and bad is a illusion or perhaps a concoction of the imagination, and there is certainly no account for our lives after we die so justice cannot exist, good and evil can not exist.

If none of that exists, truth can not exist... Truth can only be found in God.

Denial of God is Supreme elevation of man.. the "you can be like God" lie told by Satan in the garden of Eden.

Denial of God (to me) is scary.
For many this is true. But think of it this way. If God doesn't exist then we already exist with morality without a God. You could say that the theory of God along created morality, but societies that didn't believe in God before meeting us, also had their own set of morals.

Atheists also have morals. They don't need God for that.

If God doesn't exist then morality developed out of necessity. We could murder each other but that wouldn't help the survival of the species. Trust and morality is something that developed because it helped out species to work together which lead to agriculture which kept our species going.

To quote some old dead philosopher, if you need the fear of God to make you a good person, then you're not a good person. This without God that still strict to help their fellow man is proof that God isn't the only source of morality in the Universe.
 

Hacky McAxe

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Gilded
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
37,041
Reaction score
29,421
The whole problem with the hypothesis that good and morality can not exist without a God is that many who claim yo live on service to Him are complete and utter ***** who lack compassion and empathy.on the other hand, there are many decent/ good natured people out there and while many of them are religious, many live their lives completely independently of any form of dogmatic faith.
This is unfortunately true. There are many that fully worship God but are just terrible people. There's others who use God as an excuse to do harm to others.

That doesn't mean that God is evil. Just that the nature of some people wins out over their apparent morality.
 

Hacky McAxe

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Gilded
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
37,041
Reaction score
29,421
For me, personally, atleast at the moment society as a whole I can not help, however I can help individuals understand Christian doctrine and how it lines up with reality (atleast in my mind).

I can happily answer genuine questions about Christianity and the possibility of God as a explanation for both our purpose and existence (again at least in my mind which has come about by genuine personal curiosity, study, analyzation, meditation along with personal testimony / experience).
My stance has always been to keep an open mind about everything. While I don't believe the God of the bible exists, I accept that he may exist and I accept that others believe he exists.

That's why I like to learn aspects of religion and provide counter points for discussion.
 

Caveman

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
2,563
Reaction score
4,393
My stance has always been to keep an open mind about everything. While I don't believe the God of the bible exists, I accept that he may exist and I accept that others believe he exists.

That's why I like to learn aspects of religion and provide counter points for discussion.
You say that, but the insincere nature of the answer's you gave to the above questions tell me your not open to exploring the reality of the the God of the bible, nor does it show that you can logically discuss with sincerety the claims of the Bible.

It's further evidence of man not only going out of their way to deny the existence of God and furthermore intentionally restrain from pursuit of knowledge of Him.

(My aim is not to be offensive here and that is certainly not my intention - my aim is to critique your answer in a polite but honest way - so please don't take this post as a hate act against you, I think your quite intelligent and enjoy hearing your opinions)
 

JayBee

Kennel Legend
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
10,782
Reaction score
4,017
@Boo! & @Hacky McAxe Have to say gents, thoroughly enjoy reading these back-and-forth comments.

Love to read it, and great to see respectful opinions go back and forth.

It's actually refreshing! (PS Hacky - love the sneaky Simpsons reference you threw in with the Burrito :P)
 

Mr 95%

Kennel Immortal
Gilded
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
22,210
Reaction score
22,909
@Boo! & @Hacky McAxe Have to say gents, thoroughly enjoy reading these back-and-forth comments.

Love to read it, and great to see respectful opinions go back and forth.

It's actually refreshing! (PS Hacky - love the sneaky Simpsons reference you threw in with the Burrito :P)
I agree..it’s most interesting..and neither side is abusive.. These days I just read..and make comments now and then ..I used to interact with more intent ..can’t be bothered now to be honest..I have argued my point, stated my case..and won my arguments..

After what I have been through..what I have seen.. I have a clear vision of God and people’s need for him in their lives.. A need that I do not possess..nor a faith I believe in. However, that is not to say those who believe in God need to justify or prove their belief to me.. I think a person’s relationship with God is entirely personal..and if it believing in a higher being makes a person a better person it can’t be a bad thing..
 

JayBee

Kennel Legend
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
10,782
Reaction score
4,017
I agree..it’s most interesting..and neither side is abusive.. These days I just read..and make comments now and then ..I used to interact with more intent ..can’t be bothered now to be honest..I have argued my point, stated my case..and won my arguments..

After what I have been through..what I have seen.. I have a clear vision of God and people’s need for him in their lives.. A need that I do not possess..nor a faith I believe in. However, that is not to say those who believe in God need to justify or prove their belief to me.. I think a person’s relationship with God is entirely personal..and if it believing in a higher being makes a person a better person it can’t be a bad thing..
I don't necessarily think it is about winning an argument, mate.

Now, I will state I am a firm believer in God (having strayed away from the faith for a number of years) - but so much of what I see in today's society, coupled with things that have happened in my life, has grown my faith even stronger. Now, I will say I still question elements of it - but there is so much in my mind that makes me a believer.

With that out of the way - A huge problem with this forum is the moral high ground people make in their arguments. I think when we state our points, it feels like everyone is trying to "one up" another with a point of view that their's is of a more valid opinion, in an effort to change another persons' point of view. I am generalizing everyone in the same arguments, so do not take this personal, this is just an overall observation made.. If you cannot tell - not a single person has changed sides - maybe it has opened up our minds a little (for me, I have done more research on peoples thoughts and ideologies, but again it has only strengthened my position), but it's not like we have one person who was very pro one way, now completely in the other direction.

Which is why I think the dialogue of late has been good - and it's about time. The toxic environment isn't good, and just adds fuel to the flames of identity politics. Let's not stereotype - I would have a beer with anyone in this forum, because we have one thing in common - and it's the one thing that drew us here. Everything else is background noise.
 

Mr 95%

Kennel Immortal
Gilded
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
22,210
Reaction score
22,909
I don't necessarily think it is about winning an argument, mate.

Now, I will state I am a firm believer in God (having strayed away from the faith for a number of years) - but so much of what I see in today's society, coupled with things that have happened in my life, has grown my faith even stronger. Now, I will say I still question elements of it - but there is so much in my mind that makes me a believer.

With that out of the way - A huge problem with this forum is the moral high ground people make in their arguments. I think when we state our points, it feels like everyone is trying to "one up" another with a point of view that their's is of a more valid opinion, in an effort to change another persons' point of view. I am generalizing everyone in the same arguments, so do not take this personal, this is just an overall observation made.. If you cannot tell - not a single person has changed sides - maybe it has opened up our minds a little (for me, I have done more research on peoples thoughts and ideologies, but again it has only strengthened my position), but it's not like we have one person who was very pro one way, now completely in the other direction.

Which is why I think the dialogue of late has been good - and it's about time. The toxic environment isn't good, and just adds fuel to the flames of identity politics. Let's not stereotype - I would have a beer with anyone in this forum, because we have one thing in common - and it's the one thing that drew us here. Everything else is background noise.
Argument was probably a little harsh..I dare say discussion came to a conclusion.. But you are right..it’s great to see no one getting abused for their beliefs..and that’s the way it should be..an open minded discussion listening and replying to people’s thoughts without aggression and venom..just a civil debate..We all have different experiences that we bring to the table..

Actually it reminds of when young Buddhists monks in training fire of questions at each other. One monk will question the works of Buddha while the other will answer it..they look like they are having a great time doing.. It helps them to further understand their faith..
 

KambahOne

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
3,659
Reaction score
4,735
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Epicurus

"God," he [Epicurus] says, "either wants to eliminate bad things and cannot,
or can but does not want to,
or neither wishes to nor can,
or both wants to and can.
If he wants to and cannot, then he is weak and this does not apply to god.
If he can but does not want to, then he is spiteful which is equally foreign to god’'s nature.
If he neither wants to nor can, he is both weak and spiteful, and so not a god.
If he wants to and can, which is the only thing fitting for a god, where then do bad things come from? Or why does he not eliminate them?"
 

Attachments

The DoggFather

OG DF
Premium Member
Gilded
Site's Top Poster
Joined
Sep 2, 2012
Messages
106,458
Reaction score
117,659
Does it really matter if you believe or not? Just live and let live and don't force your views on anyone else. It really is that simple.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top